OT: Legal question

notsoblue

Quick question for the legal types on here. I'm in a bit of a bind at the moment because my previous landlord is withholding about half of my deposit due to arbitrary charges that have nothing to do with dilapidation or the condition of the property. The deposit was not held in a deposit protection scheme so I'm entirely at his mercy at this point. And what makes things even more complicated (and a bit worrying) is that he is due to emigrate to NZ at the end of this month, and I don't have his current home address. I'm trying my best to resolve this verbally and amicably with him but he's basically ignoring all attempts at contact. So it looks like I might have to try and take legal action to get my money back. My question is, does his emigration essentially mean that he can get away with this by ignoring all contact until he leaves the country? Or do I have some recourse to pursue him for the money he owes me even while he is resident abroad if the small claims court establishes that I have a case?

I will be going to the Citizens Advice Bureau ASAP, but any advice in the mean time would be very much appreciated!

essexian

I would suggest you give Shelter a call asap as they are specialists in this area.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice

It's my understanding that in most circumstances, the landlord should have used a deposit protection scheme. Their failure to do so could result in you receiving three times the amount withheld (off the top of my head)

notsoblue

essexian wrote:

I would suggest you give Shelter a call asap as they are specialists in this area.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice

It's my understanding that in most circumstances, the landlord should have used a deposit protection scheme. Their failure to do so could result in you receiving three times the amount withheld (off the top of my head)

Cheers! Thats a great resource. My main concern at the moment is that he thinks he can get away with it by simply leaving the country. Does anyone have any information about that?

davmaggs

IANAL, but I believe that it is illegal not to use a deposit scheme after a certain date

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndComm ... /DG_189120

Also there is a fair chance that he hasn't told his mortgage company or HMRC that he was renting out his place so that could be mentioned. You can find out who the registered owner of the place that you are in through the land register for about £2.50.

Also have a think about how much you really should get back. A lot of tennants think that they shouldn't pay anything at all and don't always see the other side so decide what really is fair.

essexian

You can sue a person overseas but its complicated and outside my area.

You may wish to try Consumer Direct or HM Court Service for information.

The problem you are likely to face, sorry to say, is that you may get a judgement but not be able to enforce it. If you do use the courts in the UK before they leave, you may also find that a court date won't be available for some time.

jzed

notsoblue wrote:

Quick question for the legal types on here. I'm in a bit of a bind at the moment because my previous landlord is withholding about half of my deposit due to arbitrary charges that have nothing to do with dilapidation or the condition of the property. The deposit was not held in a deposit protection scheme so I'm entirely at his mercy at this point. And what makes things even more complicated (and a bit worrying) is that he is due to emigrate to NZ at the end of this month, and I don't have his current home address. I'm trying my best to resolve this verbally and amicably with him but he's basically ignoring all attempts at contact. So it looks like I might have to try and take legal action to get my money back. My question is, does his emigration essentially mean that he can get away with this by ignoring all contact until he leaves the country? Or do I have some recourse to pursue him for the money he owes me even while he is resident abroad if the small claims court establishes that I have a case?

I will be going to the Citizens Advice Bureau ASAP, but any advice in the mean time would be very much appreciated!

Once had a landlord who refused to give us deposit back (before deposit schemes). A quick mention of tax authorities and our deposit was quickly received.

Sounds like if they are doing a bunk to Oz they may not have declared the income.

greg66_tri_v2.0

notsoblue wrote:

My question is, does his emigration essentially mean that he can get away with this by ignoring all contact until he leaves the country? Or do I have some recourse to pursue him for the money he owes me even while he is resident abroad if the small claims court establishes that I have a case?

Legally, no. Practically, pretty much, yes.

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If you sue someone here and get judgment against them, you can enforce the judgment in a variety of ways. However, those enforcement measures stop at the borders of the country. If you want to enforce an English judgment abroad, you can. But you have to get the judgment recognised in the relevant foreign country and enforce it there under the laws of that country.

So, he leaves England, taking all his assets. You get a judgment here and find you have nothing to enforce against. You register the judgment in NZ (using NZ lawyers) and get them to enforce it in NZ against his assets there. If successful the proceeds get sent back to you here. Time, money, hassle.

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W1

Thinking practically, if he does leave the country, what are you going to do about it? At the end of the day, should a person ignore a court order, you enforce it via bailiffs etc. I can't see that happening from the UK to NZ (although it might).

In other words, in the world of legal righteousness, it probably won't make any difference to your ability to claim. But practically speaking, it may not mean you get the £ back into your account (which, at the end of the day, is what it's all about really) because if he ignores the order, what can you do?

ETA - scalped by G66.

cjcp

I'm thinking out loud here*, and it assumes that you want to incur the time, hassle, have a justifiable claim etc, but if he's the registered owner of the property, then there's potentially an asset within the jurisdiction against which a judgment could be enforced. One option may be to commence proceedings and, if he doesn't answer, obtain a judgment in default of filing an acknowledgment of service or defence, convert that judgment into a writ and enforce that against the property or proceeds of sale if he tries to sell it - it's then a bit of a race.

Otherwise, you're looking at what the chaps above said - not fun. A call to the HMRC would be worthwhile.

*NOTE: THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE ETC ETC

notsoblue

Just had some progress. Got through to his work phone (don't ask how I got the number). With an appeal to reason, fairness, and thinly veiled legal threats I've managed to get him to "compromise" and drop the arbitrary (and illegal) fees. He's agreed to settle the deposit today. I'm not resting till I can see it on my bank statement though.

Nevertheless, being more informed about the legal situation helped with the negotiation (even if it meant I had to bluff to a certain extent), so thank you all for your responses.

greg66_tri_v2.0

notsoblue wrote:

Got through to his work phone (don't ask how I got the number).

How did you get the number?

jzed

notsoblue wrote:

Just had some progress. Got through to his work phone (don't ask how I got the number). With an appeal to reason, fairness, and thinly veiled legal threats I've managed to get him to "compromise" and drop the arbitrary (and illegal) fees. He's agreed to settle the deposit today. I'm not resting till I can see it on my bank statement though.

Nevertheless, being more informed about the legal situation helped with the negotiation (even if it meant I had to bluff to a certain extent), so thank you all for your responses.

Not interested in how you got the number, but, more importantly......what carbon are you going to spend it on?

W1

notsoblue wrote:

Just had some progress. Got through to his work phone (don't ask how I got the number). With an appeal to reason, fairness, and thinly veiled legal threats I've managed to get him to "compromise" and drop the arbitrary (and illegal) fees. He's agreed to settle the deposit today. I'm not resting till I can see it on my bank statement though.

Nevertheless, being more informed about the legal situation helped with the negotiation (even if it meant I had to bluff to a certain extent), so thank you all for your responses.

An old landlady of mine called my thinly veiled legal threats "risible" but sent me a cheque anyway. Last laugh is the best laugh.

And they weren't that thinly veiled. In fact, not veiled at all.

notsoblue

JZed wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Just had some progress. Got through to his work phone (don't ask how I got the number). With an appeal to reason, fairness, and thinly veiled legal threats I've managed to get him to "compromise" and drop the arbitrary (and illegal) fees. He's agreed to settle the deposit today. I'm not resting till I can see it on my bank statement though.

Nevertheless, being more informed about the legal situation helped with the negotiation (even if it meant I had to bluff to a certain extent), so thank you all for your responses.

Not interested in how you got the number, but, more importantly......what carbon are you going to spend it on?

Hmm, it may not be carbon. There are plans for a european bike tour, so will probably be replacing my hybrid with something snazzy for that purpose. Every little helps... Anyway, won't start celebrating till the fund have reached the account...

This whole nasty episode has left me with a bitter taste though. One simply cannot afford to leave anything to trust or honour when it comes to dealing with people who are effectively strangers. And I was a fool to not insist on deposit protection!