Drivetrain cleaning disaster

requiem

:roll: So today I decided to clean the chain, chainrings, and cassette on my 3 month old sirrus.. Having only just started reading the forums I have only just begun to understand the importance of regular cleaning, especially since I commute every day..

So I went out and bought a can of Muc-off de-greaser, and bottle of finish line wet lube, and a park tool sprocket cleaning brush..

I firstly gave the bike a quick once over with warm water and a sponge, before applying the de-greaser to the drivetrain while pedaling backwards. Once I started to clean using a toothbrush in the chain, and the brush in the sprockets I realised that on pedaling backwards the chain made a really gritty sound.. Now obviously this was because I had not successfully removed all the cr@p from the chainrings, chain and sprockets etc and this was therefore continually spreading the muck.. I was doing this indoors by the way and have since concluded that this is only possible with aid of a hose?

How are you supposed to get all the muck out without spreading it after applying de-greaser? If I had the correct tool I would have removed the chain and I believe this would have made the whole job a LOT easier.. I ended up removing the rear wheel, degreasing the cassette again and showering it off in the bath, which seemed to do the job nicely.. of course this is of no use when the chain and chainrings are still dirty, so now I have a de-greased drivetrain which looks clean but is actually full of grit..

I really hope that my pedaling backwards has not ground any components down to any serious extent? Luckily I have an Evans round the corner so I will wheel the bike round there tomorrow and get them to clean it for me, hopefully I can watch.. (luckily they have a winter drivetrain cleaning deal for £10 instead of £30)

Also, I had a hell of a time re-attaching the rear wheel and hope I have not damaged the small cogs attached to the derailleur by hitting them with the cassette, I have however, spread grease onto the rims and just about everywhere else!

Do you guys have any advice for me regarding checking for subsequent drivetrain (or otherwise) damage? I am very new at bike maintenance and with the help off this forum and youtube have already managed to learn how to change and adjust my brakes competently.. Really enjoying learning to do this stuff myself but this has somewhat knocked my confidence.. I suppose I'd better clean my rims now

thanks for listening

craker

There's as many different opinions about lubing and cleaning as there are cyclists - I just wouldn't worry about it, get out and ride. At some point you'll have to replace your chain, cassette etc.

I'd save yourself a tenner on taking a newly oiled bike to the shops for lubing. You can get a chain for that. :roll:

lef

im sure it will be fine. the drivetrain is easier to clean with the chain off if its caked in crap.

I would recommend that you buy a chain removal tool and swap one of the links for a KMC missing link or a SRAM powerlink (the powerlink ones seem to be easier to remove though I use the KMC ones), making sure you get the correct one for you drivetrain - 8, 9 or 10 speed I imagine.
the park tool chainbrite is great for cleaning the chain. I just fill a small bowl with a bit and place the chain in it and scrub it with a small brush. Rinse with water and dry with a clean cloth. I use a thin cloth with muck off sprayed on it to clean the cassette, chain rings, and jockey wheels. You should be able to fold the cloth over and run between each gap of the cogs. I don't recommend you spray degreaser around the drivetrain to avoid it getting into any bearings.

Reapply chain (the right way around if its directional!) and oil it, wipe off excess. job done!

cornerblock

More than one way to skin a cat as there are to clean a bike, but why can't you clean it outside? Showering it off in the bath? Don't tell me, you applied conditioner too! As for getting Evans to clean your bike!!!! Were doomed I tell ye! If you can get a bike stand, then do so, will make cleaning and maintenance so much easier. If you have not invested in a chain cleaning tool, then I would. They do the job! Another thing I found that helps clean the cassette is these
http://www.purpleharry.co.uk/products_display
Don't get down, it's only cleaning a bike. Practice makes perfect.

Wappygixer

requiem wrote:

Also, I had a hell of a time re-attaching the rear wheel and hope I have not damaged the small cogs attached to the derailleur by hitting them with the cassette



thanks for listening

When you remove a rear wheel always set your rear gears to the highest (smallest sprocket) this makes it so much easier to take the wheel in and out.

You wont do any damage to components by pedaling backwards so long as its not forced.
As said above, a workstand makes life so easy.
Forget Evans and you already have £10 towards your stand

paulbricey

There's many ways of thinking on chains.....for sad old ex motorcyclists like me who also want to clean chains 'deeply' then take the chain off and stick it in an old coffee jar full of white spirit and shake it up with lid on - change the ws and repeat until it flows out almost clean; dry it; relube it with Finish Line Pro Road (this time of year...summer just basic wax lube).....for multi chain players (like me) WD40 the dry chain & stick it in plastic bag until next rotation of chain.....BTW when you use WS you always end up with it sounding crunchy as you took out the lube in the link and left it crunching grit that didn't get cleaned.......alternative of chain cleaning devices seems worst of both worlds to me as it doesn't go deep and soaks lemon juice or solvent everywhere at random with rubbish brushes.......OR just wipe it and relube it and don't take the link lube out ever - Really I don't think it makes any difference (except old way wastes more time) and per mr-si riding is more important.....but i would never recommend rinsing any chain/bits with water or hosing it after solvent washing the lube out !

For the cassette etc you can either go full blown split it and clean with WS soaked rag & rebuild or just run rag through the cassette. For the derailleur I always strip the jockeys and clean down completely and rebuild with grease etc.

dilemna

Do a basic bike maintenance course??

You took your cassette with you in the bath :shock: !

Richa1181

Regular bike maintenance is where I fall down. I'll usually give my chain a wipe every few rides when I remember, and strip the cassette and degrease properly every month or so when I notice the whole drivetrain is coated in sticky tar! I know how wrong it is but the last thing I want to when back in from a training ride is go back into the garden and start trying to clean up when my legs are shaking and I can't see properly due to all the sweat in my eyes

antfly

paulbricey wrote:

.but i would never recommend rinsing any chain/bits with water or hosing it after solvent washing the lube out !
.

Why not?

neeb

One thing that will save you a lot of trouble - whatever method you are going to use (or not use) to properly clean the chain, the first thing to do is simply give it a good wipe with a dry rag. Just hold the crank still with one of the pedals and give the bottom part of the chain a really good wipe. Then turn the cranks until the next section of the chain is on the bottom and repeat until you have done the whole chain. Takes about 30 seconds and gets rid of 95% of the obvious crud.

Some people never do anything more than that to clean their chains (although I don't recommend that). The point is that if you then go on to use solvent or degreaser there is a lot less muck to remove.

Chain baths with rollers/brushes get a lot of stick from traditionalists, but I must admit I find them pretty useful. They've got better in recent years, I use a park tools one that additionally has a magnet to remove small metal filings. It's not going to clean the chain as deeply as taking it off and steeping it in solvent, but life's too short for that IMHO. You do need to do it a couple of times, changing the solvent each time, and then I usually put water in the chain bath and give it about 4 rinses with that (again, change the water each time). Then wipe with a clean dry cloth (not the same one you use to wipe the dirty chain!) and leave a few hours/overnight to dry thoroughly before lubricating.

rolf_f

neeb wrote:

Chain baths with rollers/brushes get a lot of stick from traditionalists, but I must admit I find them pretty useful. They've got better in recent years, I use a park tools one that additionally has a magnet to remove small metal filings. It's not going to clean the chain as deeply as taking it off and steeping it in solvent, but life's too short for that IMHO. You do need to do it a couple of times, changing the solvent each time, and then I usually put water in the chain bath and give it about 4 rinses with that (again, change the water each time). Then wipe with a clean dry cloth (not the same one you use to wipe the dirty chain!) and leave a few hours/overnight to dry thoroughly before lubricating.

+1 Apart from anything else, the fact that you can clean the chain in a few moments, on the bike, will probably encourage a lot of people to bother when otherwise they wouldn't.

When you get in from work, cold and wet, it doesn't take much to just forget the poor bike but that's just when it needs the chain cleaning most.

For deep cleans, I've found cooking the chain for a few moments in a pan of degreaser works wonders. Comes out like new.

Buckled_Rims

Be extremely careful using degreaser with the wheels on or near the BB. Take the cassette off the rear wheel, it's only a 15 second job to do that. Clean the RD without the rear wheel on.

I always use a garden spray first to blast as much grit and mud off first before applying any degreaser. Use a KMC chain with quicklinks.

I did a 50 mile ride yesterday, the roads were damp, icy and partly slushy. All I did when I got back was use the spray first, then 2 buckets of clean water. I might put a thin layer of oil on the chain tonight.

But, the most important thing is to use MUDGUARDS in the winter. It's amazing what they protect for weeks on end.

jgsi

Richa1181 wrote:

Regular bike maintenance is where I fall down. I'll usually give my chain a wipe every few rides when I remember, and strip the cassette and degrease properly every month or so when I notice the whole drivetrain is coated in sticky tar! I know how wrong it is but the last thing I want to when back in from a training ride is go back into the garden and start trying to clean up when my legs are shaking and I can't see properly due to all the sweat in my eyes

Have a dirty bike by all means... but you wouldnt be Mr Popular if you held up the club run with 'hang on ,, rear brake sticking' or 1/2 hour later 'hang on rear mech gone for a burton'....

get yourself a decent workstand.. plonk bike on it.. and get maintaining... the fact that it is on a workstand so that it is at proper height and you can get to both sides.. the bike almost maintains itself... £50 or so it is a no brainer

requiem

WOW thanks for all the replies!

So I have just bought myself a Park Tool cg2 chain cleaning kit which includes the cyclone chain cleaner.. Will give it a try tonight. thanks for making me "forget Evans" (an irrational thought in a moment of despair) Hopefully this will get most of the grit out and I can then wipe down my chainrings and cassette etc

Now I am slightly worried about having used de-greaser so near the bb and hubs, I thought that sprying downwards onto the cassette and chainrings wouldnt be so bad, firstly because of the direction of the spray and secondly because the pressure is not so high.. What would the tell-tale sins of this be had I accidentally got de-greaser into those places?

I have also found two very thin cracks on my rear shift cable housing which probably happened when I replaced the rear wheel. I suppose I'll have to replace this housing too. (which i'm somewhat looking forward to as its just more experience and understanding ) Is it safe to ride on in the meantime? I would hope that this wouldnt cause any further damage if I took it for a couple of rides before doing so?

Many thanks,

vorsprung

The cyclone chain cleaner is ok

The point someone made above about wiping dirt off the chain after every ride is good too

Here is my "deep cleaning" method for the chain while it is still on the bike

1. Give the bike a general hosing with water
2. scrub the chain, cassette and chainrings a degreaser like pedros or finish line citrus or a kitchen "orange" grease remover
3. make the hosepipe do a brisk jet and "fire" it down through the chain, rotate the pedals backwards 20 times. Carefully rinse the chainrings and cassette, do not force water into the hubs or BB
4. spray wd40 on the chain
5. wipe the chain with a rag
6. repeat step 3- hose again
7. repeat step 4- wd40 again

The chain should now be in a fairly shiney state. Leave for a few minutes for excess wd40 to drip off then apply a chain lube such as finish line greentop ("long distance")
While you are faffing about with the chain, check for wear...see sheldon brown guide for using a tape measure to do this http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html

racingcondor

I'm going to loosely agree with Vorsprung. The one thing WD40 is good for is getting muck off a chain.

I mount the bike in my workstand, take the wheels off and clean them, then clean the frame (muck off, water and a soft cloth) and finnish by spraying WD40 into the chain close up while turning the cranks (I have a chain keeper to keep it clear of my frame). Since you haven't put any degreaser near the chain you can just wipe off the WD40 and add the chain lube of your choice.

oldwelshman

I just use degreaser with chain clean tool and do rear sprocket off the bike.
I do not use wd40 as it washes out lubricant from within the rollers so can cause problems as not easy to re lube inside.

keef66

I have a 2 option regime. If the thing isn't too mucky I wipe down the chain with a rag with a bit of WD40 on it, relube, and wipe off any excess.

Every couple of months I feel the need to do it more thoroughly so the chain comes off (KMC link) and is shaken in several changes of white spirit till it's clean and no longer gritty. It's then dried, and left to marinate in motor oil overnight. Meanwhile I whip off the cassette and give it a deep clean with white spirit / rags / scrapy things (I find a steel ruler is good for shifting stubborn crud from between the largest, fixed sprockets)
Chain rings also get a wipe over with a WS soaked rag, as do the front and rear mechs. Pivot points all get a tiny drop of 3-in-1 oil

Chain is hung up to drain excess oil, repeatedly wiped, then reinstalled.

Shiny, purring drivechain. For 5 minutes anyway.

jgsi

Treat yourself to watching the opening minutes of this...
inspired bike cleaning..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4IDCkcnnHg

enjoy
the rest of the film aint too shabby either.

wilshawk

I only clean chain when it has significant noticable dirt built up. So run your finger over chain, if there is grit on it then probably good idea to clean it. Otherwise dont bother, a little bit of dirt doestn do any harm.

I use a rag with white spirit and also a bike cleaning tool/brush which I got in halfords for a few pounds. Put a little white spirit in a bowl/bucket dip brush tip in it, now use this to brush all the rings/cassette and the chain quite thoroughly, so removing most of the grit and stuff. Your rings/sprockets should be clean now, Now apply WS to the rag, and run the chain through the rag, so absorbing all remaining dirt and old oil. Finally wipe any lingering dirt off the rings which the chain jsut threw onto them :roll:

Now dry chain with a clean rag and then leave things to dry out overnight. Then relube the next day.

paulbricey wrote:

to clean chains 'deeply' then take the chain off and stick it in an old coffee jar full of white spirit and shake it up with lid on - change the ws and repeat until it flows out almost clean; dry it; relube it

I did this before and it does clean the chain very thoroughly, one thing to note is dont do it unless your chain has a special link which allows it to be removed and replaced easily. If you have to use a link tool then DONT take your chain off as link pins which have been pushed out and then back in will come loose when you are riding.

Wappygixer wrote:

requiem wrote:

Also, I had a hell of a time re-attaching the rear wheel and hope I have not damaged the small cogs attached to the derailleur by hitting them with the cassette

When you remove a rear wheel always set your rear gears to the highest (smallest sprocket) this makes it so much easier to take the wheel in and out.

Also dont be afraid to move the rear derailleur around with your hand you wont damage it, it can flex back and forth a great amount which makes getting wheel on and off much easier

captain_tiara

KMC chains, split link for a starter.

If you clean it indoors i hope you're a bachelor.

Wipe drivetrain with a rag when you come home after a ride [if it's not a commuter] to get rid of most of the crud. Strip & deep clean when you're really bored. Also it's when you'll notice things to be done.

I once noticed a clean crack through a chainstay on an old steel frame when it got a rare clean. Could have been a nasty surprise & managed to get a new one welded in.

Ride, clean, lube.

Any spirit near casette when it's on the bike is a bad idea, can end up in freehub or bearings which is not good.

Don't be too anal over winter, it's only going to get dirty again next time you go out!

requiem

Thanks so much everyone for all your input! A quick update:

I have now cleaned the chain with the park tools cleaner and it did a great job! I repeated the procedure and then did three water changes through the machine aswell.. No more grit sound in the chain when flexed with fingers. (Im sure taking the chain off and bathing it would indeed be better, but as I have a 7 speed cassette, it would appear difficult to find the correct easy release chain link? also had to weigh up the cost of buying chain link remover tool)

I then cleaned the cassette with a rag again getting as much grit as possible out. I relubed the chain and applied a tiny bit of lube to the pivot points on the derailleurs since I had de-greased them.. Perhaps grease is better than lube for this, any ideas? Result is that everything is sparkly and there seems to be very minimal grittiness when pedalling backwards with ear next to cassete/jockey wheels/chainrings/chain etc.

Anyway, have taken it out for a spin and all gear changes are lovely and things seem to be nice and smooth..

I really hope I haven't got de-greaser in the freewheel, hubs, bb etc but i guess time will tell.. Is there anything I should be keeping an eye out for in this regard?

Again I have noticed some small cracks in the rear shifter cable outer, anything to worry about? Its great how a good clean reveals the other things which may need attention!!

Thanks again! 8)

keef66

Spot of oil on each derailleur pivot point and each jockey wheel bushing, and wipe off any excess after a minute or so (it will only attract dirt otherwise) You can only really use grease when you take the thing to bits and reassemble it.

Degreasing the freehub would take quite a lot of effort, so I wouldn't panic. If you had washed out all the lube it would gradually start to rust internally, and / or freeze in the winter. Depending on where the pawls get stuck you'd know about it because it would either freewheel in both directions, or you wouldn't be able to freewheel at all.

Small cracks in the casing of the outer cables is nowt to worry about. The short bit that goes to the rear mech goes through quite a tight bend, so it's even more likely there.

Hals1967

keef66 wrote:

Spot of oil on each derailleur pivot point and each jockey wheel bushing, and wipe off any excess after a minute or so (it will only attract dirt otherwise) .

+1

This works well for me as I recently had some jockey wheel chirping driving me nuts on a long ride, drop of lube in the bushing sorted it.

Rouge Penguin

Invest in the offer packs of Baby Wipes. They're so good they'd clean Gary Glitters conscience

itboffin

another vote for baby wipes & WS in a jar, just did one of my chains this week, looks like new.

Buckled_Rims

+1 for baby wipes.

Someone on here mentioned they used baby wipes, which I never thought about before, so I went to the cheap shop and bought a packet and ...well I've started to use them for everything, including cleaning the computer, the bikes, guitars, etc.