Petition to save The Hub Glentress

sheepworryingbhoy

There's valid arguements on both sides for the bike shop/cafe; however if the coaching courses are lost then that could be a real shame for younger kids.

Northwind

It would be. TBH I reckon they were pretty rotten at running a cafe, at least once it grew past the absolute basics, they're in the wrong line of business, they should get more into the guiding and training, maybe race organisation and such too, that seems to be what they like most and they do it well.

DickBarton

Cost £9million - and some of that fee was buying up all the property on-site so that it was all owned by the FC so that no competition could exist...then they bought up huge swathes of land nearby...

Who paid for it? Hard to tell but I suspect a serious portion was taxpayers money.

Not that I'm fussed either way, I visit GT once a year so I'm not in the market that the location is aimed at...

The Northern Monkey

That looks pretty mint.

Better than the b+q shed currently there anyways!

cee

sheepworryingbhoy wrote:

There's valid arguements on both sides for the bike shop/cafe; however if the coaching courses are lost then that could be a real shame for younger kids.

I don't see why the coaching courses would have to go.

plenty of folk offer coaching courses and use places like GT as a venue for the tuition.

sure...they might not have a place on site to provide lunch at cost price from, but companies like dirtschool, mb7 and smbg among others all run courses based at GT/Innerleithen, without also owning the cafe.....

cooldad

Broonster wrote:

Steve_F wrote:

Where has this 5-star talk come from? Was this just from someone posting it on this thread due to the new buildings looking a bit swanky?

There's no chance in this world that that building is going to be geared up for anything but muddy bikers. Hardly going to be possible to compare it to somewhere with posh silverware and fancy napkins.

I'm willing to bet it will continue the wood theme inside, easy to clean, very relaxed atmosphere and plenty of room to sit around, something like Fort William where they don't care how muddy you are.

I do feel sorry for Tracy and Emma as every time I've met them they seem really nice and very into GT & biking. Do agree that more could have been made of the cafe but it's always busy. Could've been a case of not realising there was a problem until a nice new development was created. Hopefully they manage to find some other biking business opportunities in the area.

At other trail centres (Kirroughtree) there are a lot more walkers, families and other people in the cafe as it's a nice little place to go with nice food. I think there is potentially a LOT more business available in the area by being able to seat more bikers and attracting other people too.

Really don't understand the petition thing though, there was a tender process, a different company won it in what seems to have been a fair process, case closed.

Claire Bony of GT Restaurants Ltd added:

“Olivier and I are delighted to be offered the opportunity to be part of something as fantastic as the new Glentress Peel development.

“We are very much looking forward to working with Forestry Commission Scotland and the other site partners to create a 5-star visitor attraction, which can only be of benefit to the many users of the forest park and to our local community.”

Context - I read that as a very good facility, not a 5 star hotel type facility.

cee

cooldad wrote:

Context - I read that as a very good facility, not a 5 star hotel type facility.

quite...and actually it refers to the entire tweed valley forest park becoming a 5 star visitor attraction...not just the cafe, or indeed glentress.

Broonster

cee wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Context - I read that as a very good facility, not a 5 star hotel type facility.

quite...and actually it refers to the entire tweed valley forest park becoming a 5 star visitor attraction...not just the cafe, or indeed glentress.

It refers to the visitor attraction that is/will be the Peel Centre at Glentress, which will obviously be the main attraction & focus of the Tweed Valley.

The '5-star' quote was just a bit daft of them in the first place IMO, as straight away it puts them on the back foot with a number of disgruntled people's expectations. I don't think anyone, me included, is expecting a 5-star facility in the true sense of the term. Yes, of course it'll be a very good facility - I'd certainly expect that to be the case considering the development cost a reported £9m!

Just a shame a fraction of that kind of money couldn't have been diverted into building more trails. A reported 300k people a year, with a target of increading that to 500k (?) is going to be a tall order - the trails are busy enough as it is and is actually starting to put a lot of fol that I now off going.

Broonster

Broonster wrote:

cee wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Context - I read that as a very good facility, not a 5 star hotel type facility.

quite...and actually it refers to the entire tweed valley forest park becoming a 5 star visitor attraction...not just the cafe, or indeed glentress.

It refers to the visitor attraction that is/will be the Peel Centre at Glentress, which will obviously be the main attraction & focus of the Tweed Valley.

The '5-star' quote was just a bit daft of them in the first place IMO, as straight away it puts them on the back foot with a number of disgruntled people's expectations. I don't think anyone, me included, is expecting a 5-star facility in the true sense of the term. Yes, of course it'll be a very good facility - I'd certainly expect that to be the case considering the development cost a reported £9m!

Just a shame a fraction of that kind of money couldn't have been diverted into building more trails. A reported 300k people a year, with a target of increasing that to 500k (?) is going to be a tall order - the trails are busy enough as it is and is actually starting to put a lot of folk that I know off going.

Northwind

See, I ride at Glentress more than most and I don't find the trails at all overcrowded. The car park and cafe, sure, but not the trails. Applying a little bit of common sense when taking off helps- get away before a slow rider or leave a gap between the last guy and you. And that's the red, the busiest trail in the forest, go out on the black and there's never anybody there at all!

If you stand beside the red and count heads some saturday, you see that while it's constant traffic there's really no need for congestion at all.

Having said that... Yeah, I reckon an 8 million pound visitor's centre with a million quid spent on a new proper black route and regrading of the existing "black" to be a second red linking together at the top of the current red (easy) plus removing the last of the fireroad climbing on the red, plus a pump track and total rebuild of the skills area, that'd be an awful lot better than a 9 million pound visitor's centre and it'd leave change in the budget too.

Anonymous

Northwind wrote:

Now that's the most ridiculous comment of all... Psychically knowing what the new facility will be like. Funnily enough this is exactly what people said- actually what people still believe- the CYB visitor's centre was going to be like. People who've never been still say they'll never go. But I've been, and they couldn't care less when you walk in covered in welsh mud even 5 minutes before closing, and the baked potato was cheaper than the hub... (actually the chicken tikka baked spud was cheaper than a hub cheese one- and not only that but they knew it was gluten free, the Hub seemed to think I was speaking in tongues) And excitingly, it had a roof and enough tables.

I preferred the totally laid back atmosphere of the old Coedy caff. You do sometimes get the impression they don't want muddy fuggers in there now. It does seem to have got better since it re-opened though, but still not that "all back to mine" atmosphere they used to have.
And you can't just order "lots of food", and have them bring you whatever they had to hand

As for Glentress. The bike shop was pretty good. Great selection of clothing, and some useful tools and gadgets, but the Cafe, frankly was crap.

Northwind

Yeah, I'm hoping the Hub one will be a wee bit more laid back, there was nothign wrong at all with the CYB one but it could have been a bit less clinical.

Also I'm hoping the new cafe will retain the Hub's excellent hiring policy of mainly girls half my age with insufficient clothing. Rather than CYB's lovely but sadly rather unletchable grannies.

Anonymous

Clinical, yes, that's the word I was looking for.

I've been in Coedy a few times, and they've had some fairly cute younger girls there sometimes too.

Llandegla seems to have a hottie hiring policy as well.
When I took my mate's daughter there (who's stunning herself) to try out some MTBing she seemed rather indignant that all the girls there were cute.
"All the girls working in this cafe are really pretty"
"Er, yeah. you're right."
"But ALL of them are pretty"
"I noticed, bit young for me though, lol"
"But they're ALL pretty, there's not a single ugly one here, WTF?"
"are you annoyed because you got turned down for a job or something?"

Broonster

Northwind wrote:

See, I ride at Glentress more than most and I don't find the trails at all overcrowded. The car park and cafe, sure, but not the trails. Applying a little bit of common sense when taking off helps- get away before a slow rider or leave a gap between the last guy and you. And that's the red, the busiest trail in the forest, go out on the black and there's never anybody there at all!

If you stand beside the red and count heads some saturday, you see that while it's constant traffic there's really no need for congestion at all.

Having said that... Yeah, I reckon an 8 million pound visitor's centre with a million quid spent on a new proper black route and regrading of the existing "black" to be a second red linking together at the top of the current red (easy) plus removing the last of the fireroad climbing on the red, plus a pump track and total rebuild of the skills area, that'd be an awful lot better than a 9 million pound visitor's centre and it'd leave change in the budget too.

Personally, I haven't done the red for donkeys - I always stick to the black, simply because you hardly see anyone on it. It's almost like a proper ride outwith a trail centre in some respects. Also, I try and aim to be on the bike and cycling by 9am at the very latest (at weekends) as again it tends to be much quieter. By the time you get back to the car though, the car parks can be overflowing, with people parked all the way down the entrance road.

mea00csf

Northwind wrote:

See, I ride at Glentress more than most and I don't find the trails at all overcrowded. The car park and cafe, sure, but not the trails. Applying a little bit of common sense when taking off helps- get away before a slow rider or leave a gap between the last guy and you. And that's the red, the busiest trail in the forest, go out on the black and there's never anybody there at all!

If you stand beside the red and count heads some saturday, you see that while it's constant traffic there's really no need for congestion at all.

Having said that... Yeah, I reckon an 8 million pound visitor's centre with a million quid spent on a new proper black route and regrading of the existing "black" to be a second red linking together at the top of the current red (easy) plus removing the last of the fireroad climbing on the red, plus a pump track and total rebuild of the skills area, that'd be an awful lot better than a 9 million pound visitor's centre and it'd leave change in the budget too.

So there's no-one on the the current black (presumably because most weekend warriors would class themselves as intermediates) yet you think it would be good to regrade the black to a hard red and build something harder, which will end up utilised even less than the current black?? Seems a bit selfish don't you think??
They already have the mtb'ers using the facilities, they're not the audience they're trying to attract with a new visitors centre. Sure they're going to be the core customer, but they'll be looking to make it into a facility that will attract families/walkers, a new client base who might have been put off in the past by delapidated partacabins aimed more or less solely at mtb'ers. It's very short sighted in my opinion to say "they'd have been better off just spending it on trails". A "5 star" centre will attract new visitors, will enable them to charge more for contracts meaning they can then have guaranteed income to spend on trails, biking/walking/orienteering/kids play area etc.

Northwind

mea00csf wrote:

So there's no-one on the the current black (presumably because most weekend warriors would class themselves as intermediates) yet you think it would be good to regrade the black to a hard red and build something harder, which will end up utilised even less than the current black?? Seems a bit selfish don't you think??

Not really, it's a wasted investment as it is, calling it a black puts people off riding it but with only one exception that I can think of the entire of the main black is no harder than the red. The 3 seperate sections at the end earn their grade though. So it's weird that Scotland's premier mtb centre has a well-loved red, probably the best blue in the country, a pretty nice green, an orange bike park but very little legitimate black.

It's also a big old ride, the black, which puts people off as well I think- it's much harder work than the red. It's lovely though and it'd be good to get more people out on it. And of course equalising the traffic a bit would take the strain off the existing red.

So yeah, I think GT should have a real black, i think it's pretty weird that it doesn't. It wouldn't have to be big, Laggan's black is pretty legendary and it's pretty short (and cost only about £75000 to build IIRC, and is low maintenance)

Anonymous

If you ride it regularly, mind, it becomes second nature. You need to put yourself in the mindset of someone who doesn't know what's round the next bend, and where all the roots are.

Sadly, I didn't get to try the black when I was there, we were too knackered after 3 days of solid riding.

Northwind

yeehaamcgee wrote:

If you ride it regularly, mind, it becomes second nature. You need to put yourself in the mindset of someone who doesn't know what's round the next bend, and where all the roots are.

I've only done the whole about 3 times I think Which is stupid, it's lovely but excuses always come up.

Anonymous

Ok, well put yourself in the mind of a less experienced rider then.
There's nothing I can recall on any trail centre that has tested me to my limits, but I've been riding for years and years and years.
I certainly see riders struggle on things I never even considered an obstacle.

Northwind

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Ok, well put yourself in the mind of a less experienced rider then.

That's what I'm doing, I remember what it was like doing them as a noob.

First time I did the black route, it was my first ever black and I was crapping myself- I'd seen the Wormhole before from the red and didn't just say "I'm not riding that today" I said "I'm never riding that, that's just not what my riding's going to be like, not interested", so I was nervous. We'd done innerleithen red a couple of weeks before and I had to use all the chicken lines, even walked some bits.

Now I remember there was one steep bit on the black that bothered me, I rode it but it was pretty scary. But on the whole it was definately easier than inners red. And massively, massively easier than the other bits of black at GT- it was ages before I rode that stuff.

It's really not a hard trail. If it was built today there's no chance it'd be a black.

Anonymous

What's difficult at inners then? There's some drops, but apart from that, I don;t recall anything challenging.
I mean, the Pie run, between all the trees, and all those roots, is technically more challenging than anything at Inners.

Northwind

Exactly! I was a total knobber back then And therefore qualified to say, the black was pretty easy since I could do it.

Anonymous

Ah, I see!

Steve_F

The problem with GT black, as mentioned, is that it only seems to be black due to the length and how tough some of the climbs are.

I've been round the red hundreds of times and could count the number of times round the black on two hands. It just doesn't stack up for me. The amount that the red packs into the distance is fantastic. The black seems like a long slog between interesting parts with some of the downhill very un-interesting.

Fingers crossed there are plans for the black next as the other trails have seen significant change recently. One change I'd like is some technical sections thrown into the climbs like Inners has or even the shared start of the climbs has. Rock steps sometimes make you forget how much your lungs are bursting!!

Northwind

AFAIK the only plans for the black currently coming up is the Ewok Village replacement, which is in planning now, but tbh that doesn't mean it won't happen tomorrow Vehicle access to some parts of the black is pretty bad though which does make things a bit trickier.

Brassknocker

...really interesting reading this.

I regularly ride the black climb then head down spooky woods (and more often than not, loop round again to do the red climb to spooky again), then finish on the black/red or blue depending on my mood. If I arrive to an overflowing car park at the w/e, I'd be surprised to see more than 4 people on the black climb.

The first time I set out on the black was terrifiying, the fact it was labelled 'black' put me off trying it. I like the quietness of it, and like it as it is, but perhaps they should call it 'the long red' and that would get more people away from the current red to try the superior black.

Regarding the current facilities, the mechanics are excellent (and should easily find employment in the new facility with Alpine Bikes) but the shop could be so much bigger, it's a missed opportunity.

The cafe and toilet facilites have a certain 'charm' (fantastic cake and tea, but the rest, as mentioned before, does seem to revolve around cheap coleslaw!), but won't be especially missed by me. I imagine a sort of Grand-Designs / Tebay-Services / Cairngorm funicular style setup, but they'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they stopped offering mugs of tea and cake to muddy bikers. You won't have to have a shower and change before they let you in for a table for two - that simply won't happen! You'll still be able to buy a toasty/bowl of soup/baked potato etc in your muddy Enduras...

I'm sure Emma and Tracy are lovely people, but this can only be a good thing can't it?

At least the tender wasn't awarded to Halfords and Subway - imagine that!! Now that would be a travesty!

DickBarton

Nick83 wrote:

And to those who want to be told to take off their muddy shoes and shorts before tucking in to an overpriced Paninni on a shiny leather sofa - I think you might have missed the point of mountain biking. I for one would rather sit outside in December rather than be forced to sit indoors wearing only my pants...

You wear pants under your cycling clobber? Man, that is just weird and uncomfy!!!

I'm with you but I'd not be happy having to sit naked in view of the public - I don't mind my wife laughing at me when naked...it's another thing having the world laughing at me!