Building a wheel

supafly1982
supafly1982 Posts: 631
edited February 2011 in MTB workshop & tech
hi there, im looking to build my first wheel, i want to use a 32h mavic E321 rim, i would like to know what would be a good cheap hub ie £20 and what spokes (black) and what tools i would need, ive tried to use the search function to find out how to build a wheel propperly but no joy.

is it worth it or am i better trying to buy a pre made wheel?

cheers
scott

Comments

  • ricardo_smooth
    ricardo_smooth Posts: 1,281
    the latter if you have no clue whatsoever. unless you have many many hours to spare, money for intial equipment and lots of time to read/ pracise
  • ellsbells1973
    ellsbells1973 Posts: 537
    an e321 rim with deore hubs and db black spokes at merlin will set you back £115 for a pair, it may seem a lot for your budget (i dont know) but you will be safe in the knowledge your wheels have been built by one of the best wheel builders in the country
    YT Capra comp1
  • redvee
    redvee Posts: 11,922
    If you're starting from scratch then you will need a spoke key, wheel building jig and dishing tool if you want to do it properly though you might be able to get the wheel true using the forks and some blu tac and matches. This is on top of the price of the parts and assuming you have the necessary dimensions for the hub and rim.
    I've added a signature to prove it is still possible.
  • supafly1982
    supafly1982 Posts: 631
    Im quite handy at building stuf and this is the route i would rather take as i would end up doing it further down the line anyway, just need to my skills to a different medium, this time being the bike.

    so i will need these?:

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Sear ... hing+tool+

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=33904

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=10013

    could i get away doing a wheel with the above?
  • redvee
    redvee Posts: 11,922
    They would get you started in the black art. If your building with unknown hubs then a vernier calliper to get the dimensions of the hub will be needed which you can pick up for under a tenner on auction sites.
    I've added a signature to prove it is still possible.
  • aaronmroach
    aaronmroach Posts: 341
    You will also need

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Sear ... ke+tension

    This website is a god send!! For spoke length.

    http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/

    This book is an awesome thing as well.

    http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=NP06947

    I have had a crack at the wheel building thing, being an aircraft engineer how hard could it be!! Well I recomend you buy a cheap cheap hub, rim and spokes off of flea bay and have a go at that first!!!!

    Spokes wise I would g ofor some reasonable DB stainless and brass nipples theyre more forgiving.

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=46858

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=49473
  • supafly1982
    supafly1982 Posts: 631
    aaronmroach wrote:
    You will also need

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Sear ... ke+tension

    This website is a god send!! For spoke length.

    http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/

    This book is an awesome thing as well.

    http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=NP06947

    I have had a crack at the wheel building thing, being an aircraft engineer how hard could it be!! Well I recomend you buy a cheap cheap hub, rim and spokes off of flea bay and have a go at that first!!!!

    Spokes wise I would g ofor some reasonable DB stainless and brass nipples theyre more forgiving.

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=46858

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=49473

    ecxellent post, cheers fella, ive bought the book. I cant believe the price these bicycle sites charge for tools and other stuff, its a joke, i got the book new for a tenner http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listin ... dition=new
  • b16 b3n
    b16 b3n Posts: 301
    my advice mate and i know your a keen entusiast just like i was, buy all your spec ie hub rim spokes etc and take it to your local bike shop to get a wheel build done. Ie spen many frustrating hours trying and wasted £20quids worth of halo spokes once by not doing it properly. But if you like being mad then be my guest. Just some friendly advice, and if they do ever fail, its back to the bike shop :D
    " GET BACK CROC "
  • Chunkers1980
    Chunkers1980 Posts: 8,035
    I'd get a BSO type wheel, stripe it down and then re-build, the only way to learn and in a safe environment.
  • jairaj
    jairaj Posts: 3,009
    From my mate who's a bike mechanic and learnt to build wheels last year:

    +1 on the buy a cheap but straight wheelset. strip it down and rebuild. do this many times till you get the hang of it. then when confident buy the components of the wheelset you want and build. But make sure you buy a straight wheel so you know for sure it can be built straight.

    things like the truing stand etc can be rigged up using other things but they won't work as well. and when you#re really frustrated because you can't quite get the dishing correct you'll wish you got a proper stand.
  • ds690
    ds690 Posts: 17
    Don't let anyone scare you off of building a wheel. It's not the black art they would have you believe. Sheldon Brown has some very simple wheelbuilding instructions on his website that i've been using for years to build my MTB wheelsets. Never had a problem and have been riding that first set for about 6 years. DT swiss spoke calculator is good for spoke lengths, although they tend to be a little long so I round down to the next smallest size. Just take your time and you'll end up with a wheel you'll be proud to ride on.
  • ride_whenever
    ride_whenever Posts: 13,279
    I use the wheelsmith spoke calculator, seems more accurate than the DT one IME.

    Personally I'd buy the parts and ask your lbs to teach you. That's how I learnt originally (and I now work there part time) brought a few beers/biscuits and sat down with one of the mechanics. He built the rear whilst I built the front and since then I've built a few sets and got much more adventurous. (Including bladed spokes and low spoke count wheels and silly lacings)
    Neeermad
    Carbon 456
    456 lefty
    Pompino
    White Inbred
  • cavegiant
    cavegiant Posts: 1,546
    supafly1982 wrote:
    Im quite handy at building stuf and this is the route i would rather take as i would end up doing it further down the line anyway, just need to my skills to a different medium, this time being the bike.

    so i will need these?:

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Sear ... hing+tool+

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=33904

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=10013

    could i get away doing a wheel with the above?

    I would say you are complicating the issue with that much. I have all those tools, even a tensioning meter and just do not use them.

    I build my wheels in the frame (as better than a wheel jig). This gets the wheel supported better and allows you to dish perfectly (as not all frames are 100% aligned).
    The spoke tension guage is not as good as the old, tap it and see how it rings. You want all spokes to have a similar ting!

    So the only two things you need are a GOOD QUALITY spoke tool and Youtube.

    Wheel building is deceptively easy.
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?
  • jairaj
    jairaj Posts: 3,009
    cavegiant wrote:
    The spoke tension guage is not as good as the old, tap it and see how it rings. You want all spokes to have a similar ting!

    I've never built a wheel before so with all due respect, surely a spoke tension guage is WAY more accurate than a humans hearing?

    maybe if you meter to tell you the frequency of the tone made by plucking the spoke you could get accurate results but relying on human hearing? :shock:
  • ride_whenever
    ride_whenever Posts: 13,279
    Pinging will get you a decently true wheel, but I always run a tension meter over the wheel once i believe it is finished. So far I've never needed to touch it again.

    Pinging is a lot quicker so you can keep an eye on the whole lot far more easily and pick up if you've accidentally missed one or turned it the wrong way.


    But life is a lot easier if you get a friendly bike shop mechanic to teach you as they can show you tips and tricks that are much easier to learn in person than if you are just watching videos.
    Neeermad
    Carbon 456
    456 lefty
    Pompino
    White Inbred
  • cavegiant
    cavegiant Posts: 1,546
    I built my first couple of wheels with the ping and feel method.
    I had that nagging doubt that I had not made it correct so spend ALOT on the park tools toy.

    When I got the park tools toy I discovered I had all spokes within 0.5%, A wheel is supposed to be in 10%.

    I realised I had wasted my money at that point.


    So my advice was based on the above experience. I should have trusted that the old school method was good, but needed mechanical evaluation for piece of mind.

    using this moment to restress a good spoke tool.
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?
  • supafly1982
    supafly1982 Posts: 631
    cool, cheers for the imput guys, keep it comming please :D

    as said i want to build a 32h mavic E?321 rim, and a shimano deore hub, black spokes, now then will i have to buy a certain guage spoke to suit them or are they standard gauge?
    hubs, from what i se here are different dimensions too, why is this?
    lots of noob questions but better to try and figure it all out.
    Im going to watch some of the vids on you tube as im pretty keen on doing everything my self, im that kinda guy lol, i may get things wrong but when i get it right theres nothing like the satisfaction :D

    if you guys have any more advice feel free to add, if you have wanted to build a wheel but have been put off, then join in this conversation and air your concerns, many minds are better than one..................well maybe :lol:

    cheers
    scott


    so, so far going by the propper cheap route - Tools = http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=10013

    any other cheap necessities?




    can anyone reccomend a decent value for money wheel from here? http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Cate ... oryID=1054
  • Chunkers1980
    Chunkers1980 Posts: 8,035
    Hubs have got different diamensions. Axel width needs to match your frame and fork widths

    Flange height means differences in spoke length.

    20mm front hubs will have bigger flanges in general than 9mm Qr - simply because they need to be further out so stuff fits through the middle.

    Much much simpler to buy a built wheel, you will often find that the parts sum total - spokes, rim, hub and nipples is about the same as a built wheel thus getting the build for free as they seller is useing their buying power and building expertese to pass on the Economies of Scale to you.
  • supafly1982
    supafly1982 Posts: 631
    Chunkers1980 wrote:
    Much much simpler to buy a built wheel, you will often find that the parts sum total - spokes, rim, hub and nipples is about the same as a built wheel thus getting the build for free as they seller is useing their buying power and building expertese to pass on the Economies of Scale to you.

    Hi Chunkers, ive noticed what you have said about economy, i totaled it up and parts ar ethe same as cost of built wheel so i might just be beter buying one, but i have to admit it building a wheel looks like the sort of thing i would like to do, i love making and fabricating all sorts.

    ive been watching these and disregarding the above cost issue, building a wheel appears to be well within my patience and efforts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTb3x5VO69Y theres 3 parts, i might just get an old wheel and practice like people have mentioned, i will buy a spoke spanner and give it a bash and see how it goes.

    cheers for all the imput guys :D
  • stigofthedump
    stigofthedump Posts: 331
    I have just yesterday finished my first wheelset. XT hubs, DT competition spokes, Mavic 317 rims.

    Best advice - Buy The wheelpro guide

    http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php

    Everything you need to know, including how to build the tools, Truing stand, dishing tool and stuff you havent even thought of.

    Lastly don't try to use the cheapest components. You will find it much easier if your spokes are a consistent length, your rim is round and your hub is properly drilled.

    Easily the most satisfying thing i have ever done for my bike and i have built bikes from the frame up. Go for it.
  • supafly1982
    supafly1982 Posts: 631
    stigofthedump wrote:
    I have just yesterday finished my first wheelset. XT hubs, DT competition spokes, Mavic 317 rims.

    Best advice - Buy The wheelpro guide

    http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php

    Everything you need to know, including how to build the tools, Truing stand, dishing tool and stuff you havent even thought of.

    Lastly don't try to use the cheapest components. You will find it much easier if your spokes are a consistent length, your rim is round and your hub is properly drilled.

    Easily the most satisfying thing i have ever done for my bike and i have built bikes from the frame up. Go for it.

    excellent, good to see someone achieving their goal, how did you find building it, was it pretty straight forward but time consuming?
  • cavegiant
    cavegiant Posts: 1,546
    It may be cheaper getting a factory built wheel, but nothing can beat a hand built wheel.
    Especially one you build yourself, as you will give that extra bit of effort to make sure the balance is perfect, not just good.

    It is also kinda fun, I like building wheels, and I always feel proud with the result.

    4th restress, good quality spoke tool.


    Dt Comp spokes are very good, because they are easy to build with (that is from reputation, I have never used anything else), and very strong.


    Taking apart an old wheel to practice might be a good idea for practice, but I jumped right in and got it right first go (so it can't be that hard).
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?
  • supafly1982
    supafly1982 Posts: 631
    im thinking about getting these just to keep me chugging along for now http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=30822

    any oppinions?
  • aaronmroach
    aaronmroach Posts: 341
    Another £20 or so try these!!

    http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_ ... cts_id=227
  • supafly1982
    supafly1982 Posts: 631
    aaronmroach wrote:
    Another £20 or so try these!!

    http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_ ... cts_id=227
    would be nice but too dear for me, the mavics are still to dear but i would go that far if i had to, lol
  • aaronmroach
    aaronmroach Posts: 341
    £100 try these then and save £40

    http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_ ... cts_id=407

    Or have a giz round on flea bay

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