Not making eye contact

kurako

I've been thinking this over for a while. How many times have you seen a ped about to cross or a driver about to pull out, you look straight at them, they look straight at you and they do it anyway?

To you the exchange of glances means 'I know you can see me so you'll wait till I've gone past'. To them, it seems to mean 'I know you can see me so no need to wait till you've gone past'. After all who would look straight at someone and then ride ride into them?

What I've started doing now is something akin to the 1000 yard stare from Full Metal Jacket. I see them, I pretend not to see them, I stare at some indeterminate point in the road in front (while covering the brakes and watching them out the corner of my eye, natch)

Hey Presto! No more numpties (or at least a lot less) *. Anyone else come to this conclusion over the years?

* Mind you, I don't ride through the City any more so that may have something to do with it.

daviesee

If you are a "nodder", people can take that nod of the head as an indication that it is okay for them to go ahead. Maybe?

EKE_38BPM

Kurako, Daviesee called you a nodder. Thems fighting words!

Fight, fight, fight, fight, fight!

I have learnt not to trust eye contact. My worse accident was after eye contact was made.
A car waiting at a side road on the right made eye contact with me and then wiped me out a few seconds later.


I assume everyone is an absolute idiot and that some road users (Black cabs, Addison Lee, HGV etc) are actively trying to kill me.

wyadvd

a decent light on strobe can help.

plus maybe this is at work:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_camouflage

wyadvd

http://www.network.mag-uk.org/smidsy/Ho ... 0Close.pdf


page 4 of the above

wyadvd

it is said that motion camoflage is the real reason why you should always aproach junctions in the primary position (or wider) so that you are moving across the field of vision of the person waiting at the junction rather than flying straight into it, which is what causes motion camoflage.

wyadvd

plus annoying as it must be, I have an air zound. If i have no car behind me as I approach any junction where cars are waiting to emerge it gets a long blast, regardless of eye contact. Cars are almost never going to pull out on each other in the same way , so I figure being infront of or part of a stream of traffic protects me a little

thel33ter

I just ride straight towards the person if they walk out in front of me. They normally move sharpish with a million tons of panniers coming towards them

EKE_38BPM

Wyadvd, do you post like that to get your post count up?

wyadvd

god i must stop being so d@mned annoying! i just keep remembering stuff I've read. motion camouflage is fascinating ehh?

Pufftmw

I eyeball & if I think they're still going to do what I don't want them to do, I point my finger at them and shout "STAY!" - bit like I would do for my daughter's dog - works well

daviesee

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Kurako, Daviesee called you a nodder. Thems fighting words!

Fight, fight, fight, fight, fight!

No denial as yet though

Headhuunter

wyadvd wrote:

it is said that motion camoflage is the real reason why you should always aproach junctions in the primary position (or wider) so that you are moving across the field of vision of the person waiting at the junction rather than flying straight into it, which is what causes motion camoflage.

Yeah I always try to pass left turnings in primary, just to give myself a bit of space if someone starts to pull out. My worst smash with a ped was after the guy had made eye contact. I was flying along a clear stretch of road, he emerged quickly from an office bldg, looked right at me, appeared to make full eye contact and, just as I was about 2 metres away, stepped in front of me when was doing about 20mph...

hatbeard

to be honest if they look like they're really going to pull out on me anyways I just slow down (not to a stop, slowly rolling) and wave them out after checking I don't have a pied piper style trail of nodders behind me first of course.

I think as cyclists we get a bit too hung up on making progress at all costs and wind up doing stuff that is either dangerous or comes across as rude to other road users. for instance there's a couple of junctions in deptford on my way home where cars will stop to let other cars out as the traffic always queues up there but the cars can't get out as the cyclists filtering up the inside of traffic refuse to even slow down and the constant stream of cyclists coming along there means the cars never get a gap as they all refuse to yield. if there were a cycle lane it may be different but this across a left turn junction with no cycle specific facilities.

I find if I relax my riding style a little and am a little more forgiving of traffic at junctions (take primary a few cars back at lights, if traffic speeds up and I'm holding them up pull over and let them go past etc) I actually have a much nicer ride. just because it's my right to do something on the road doesn't make it the best course of action to keep the traffic flowing smoothly and incident free.

jzed

hatbeard wrote:

to be honest if they look like they're really going to pull out on me anyways I just slow down

Slow - no pull a head height wheelie and see their face then...... :shock:

roger_merriman

hatbeard wrote:

I find if I relax my riding style a little and am a little more forgiving of traffic at junctions (take primary a few cars back at lights, if traffic speeds up and I'm holding them up pull over and let them go past etc) I actually have a much nicer ride. just because it's my right to do something on the road doesn't make it the best course of action to keep the traffic flowing smoothly and incident free.

thats very much my plan, also why my route is though bushy park.

other factors are SS 80inch gearing is hardly brisk from the lights so being 2 to 3 cars back tends to be easier anyway.

jeremyrundle

Just come off on the road in Tavistock, I now know the worst drivers, *^%*&% OLD 70+ women with another OLD bat next to her, yap, yap, yap oh was that a junction. Where did that cyclist go, HE IS ON THE FLOOR BEHIND YOU, MORON.

(^&(*& old fart.

(sorry for the rant)

TommyEss

I've been known to point and say loudly and firmly "stay there"

I think the problem, sometimes, is that most of us ride faster than other road users are expecting - I find a lot of people pulling out thinking they're leaving me plenty of room, and then you can see their surprise in the rear view mirror as I brake just enough to loom large, head down to make good eye contact, shaking my head as if to say "you stupid donkey!"

(Wow - a whole post without swearing - fark yeah!) :P

Headhuunter

hatbeard wrote:

to be honest if they look like they're really going to pull out on me anyways I just slow down (not to a stop, slowly rolling) and wave them out after checking I don't have a pied piper style trail of nodders behind me first of course.

I think as cyclists we get a bit too hung up on making progress at all costs and wind up doing stuff that is either dangerous or comes across as rude to other road users. for instance there's a couple of junctions in deptford on my way home where cars will stop to let other cars out as the traffic always queues up there but the cars can't get out as the cyclists filtering up the inside of traffic refuse to even slow down and the constant stream of cyclists coming along there means the cars never get a gap as they all refuse to yield. if there were a cycle lane it may be different but this across a left turn junction with no cycle specific facilities.

I find if I relax my riding style a little and am a little more forgiving of traffic at junctions (take primary a few cars back at lights, if traffic speeds up and I'm holding them up pull over and let them go past etc) I actually have a much nicer ride. just because it's my right to do something on the road doesn't make it the best course of action to keep the traffic flowing smoothly and incident free.

Trouble is if you slow down when cars nudge out in front of you, they assume you're slowing to let them through and push out even further forcing you to stop completely... For cars, letting someone out takes v little effort, just a touch on the brake then a push on the accelerator but as a cyclist I find it a pain to lose the rhythm and momentum you've built up just because some guy in a car can't be bothered to wait

hatbeard

Headhuunter wrote:

hatbeard wrote:

to be honest if they look like they're really going to pull out on me anyways I just slow down (not to a stop, slowly rolling) and wave them out after checking I don't have a pied piper style trail of nodders behind me first of course.

I think as cyclists we get a bit too hung up on making progress at all costs and wind up doing stuff that is either dangerous or comes across as rude to other road users. for instance there's a couple of junctions in deptford on my way home where cars will stop to let other cars out as the traffic always queues up there but the cars can't get out as the cyclists filtering up the inside of traffic refuse to even slow down and the constant stream of cyclists coming along there means the cars never get a gap as they all refuse to yield. if there were a cycle lane it may be different but this across a left turn junction with no cycle specific facilities.

I find if I relax my riding style a little and am a little more forgiving of traffic at junctions (take primary a few cars back at lights, if traffic speeds up and I'm holding them up pull over and let them go past etc) I actually have a much nicer ride. just because it's my right to do something on the road doesn't make it the best course of action to keep the traffic flowing smoothly and incident free.

Trouble is if you slow down when cars nudge out in front of you, they assume you're slowing to let them through and push out even further forcing you to stop completely... For cars, letting someone out takes v little effort, just a touch on the brake then a push on the accelerator but as a cyclist I find it a pain to lose the rhythm and momentum you've built up just because some guy in a car can't be bothered to wait

If a car looked like he was going to pull out on me I'd always reduce speed (even if it's easing off the pedals a little) rather I hit them at a low speed than a high one if they do pull out. but if it's clear and you have enough space to let them go why not slow and let them out? traffic in the city is always going to be stop/start anyways, not wanting to lose momentum is a pretty lame excuse for not being a considerate road user, even if it does take a bit more effort to get going again. As cyclists we rely on road users being considerate to us all the time (slowing to let us pull around the bus that's just pulled over for example) but we seemingly never want to reciprocate to any one else. it's that 'must not lose momentum' kind of reasoning that leads people to do things like jump ped crossings even if they usually stop at junctions lights. to me it's just a bit anti-social.

Headhuunter

hatbeard wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

hatbeard wrote:

to be honest if they look like they're really going to pull out on me anyways I just slow down (not to a stop, slowly rolling) and wave them out after checking I don't have a pied piper style trail of nodders behind me first of course.

I think as cyclists we get a bit too hung up on making progress at all costs and wind up doing stuff that is either dangerous or comes across as rude to other road users. for instance there's a couple of junctions in deptford on my way home where cars will stop to let other cars out as the traffic always queues up there but the cars can't get out as the cyclists filtering up the inside of traffic refuse to even slow down and the constant stream of cyclists coming along there means the cars never get a gap as they all refuse to yield. if there were a cycle lane it may be different but this across a left turn junction with no cycle specific facilities.

I find if I relax my riding style a little and am a little more forgiving of traffic at junctions (take primary a few cars back at lights, if traffic speeds up and I'm holding them up pull over and let them go past etc) I actually have a much nicer ride. just because it's my right to do something on the road doesn't make it the best course of action to keep the traffic flowing smoothly and incident free.

Trouble is if you slow down when cars nudge out in front of you, they assume you're slowing to let them through and push out even further forcing you to stop completely... For cars, letting someone out takes v little effort, just a touch on the brake then a push on the accelerator but as a cyclist I find it a pain to lose the rhythm and momentum you've built up just because some guy in a car can't be bothered to wait

If a car looked like he was going to pull out on me I'd always reduce speed (even if it's easing off the pedals a little) rather I hit them at a low speed than a high one if they do pull out. but if it's clear and you have enough space to let them go why not slow and let them out? traffic in the city is always going to be stop/start anyways, not wanting to lose momentum is a pretty lame excuse for not being a considerate road user, even if it does take a bit more effort to get going again. As cyclists we rely on road users being considerate to us all the time (slowing to let us pull around the bus that's just pulled over for example) but we seemingly never want to reciprocate to any one else. it's that 'must not lose momentum' kind of reasoning that leads people to do things like jump ped crossings even if they usually stop at junctions lights. to me it's just a bit anti-social.

Of course it's OK to let people out, I'm not saying I blast through at full speed, just that it's far easier for a car to slow down and pick up speed again so I try to make it clear that I'm coming through, I think if you slow and falter slightly and show undertainty, you're more likely to get pulled out on.

kurako

daviesee wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Kurako, Daviesee called you a nodder. Thems fighting words!

Fight, fight, fight, fight, fight!

No denial as yet though

Nope. No nodding. I was checking every time I went plate glass windows and the like. Smooth and steady all the way

I usually take it easier in heavy traffic. It just when you're making good progress and people can see you'll be out the way in a few seconds. That's when it gets annoying. Aaarggh!