London's Cycling Revolution

walkingbootweather
walkingbootweather Posts: 2,443
edited January 2011 in Commuting chat
Just been reading the end of year review http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/roadusers/cycling-revolution-end-of-year_review.pdf. It all sounds mighty impressive, but have the changes been so dramatic in practice? It has been a while since I cycled much in London - what's the consensus?
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Comments

  • Wrath Rob
    Wrath Rob Posts: 2,918
    Even in the poor weather I still see people on the bikes so from that perspective its been a great success. The only downside from my view is that I couldn't sign up for an account as the website kept showing an error but not saying what was wrong :(
    FCN3: Titanium Qoroz.
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Yes. I started commuting in London around 1999. The difference between then and now is like night and day
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  • EKE_38BPM
    EKE_38BPM Posts: 5,821
    Yeah, a big improvement.
    More bus lanes to use compared to many years ago and more cycle lanes & ASLs compared to a few years ago.
    More bikes mean more drivers on the look-out more (hopefully).

    Also, Boris has also flattened all of the uphills whilst maintaining the downhills and all winds are now tailwinds.
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  • "Safety in Numbers"- The Virtuous Cycle. Cycling rates have doubled in London whilst accident rates have halved.
  • JonGinge wrote:
    Yes. I started commuting in London around 1999. The difference between then and now is like night and day

    That's cos you started commuting at night time, and it's the middle of the afternoon now.

    Pretty obvious, when you think about it... :wink:
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
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  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    Greg66 wrote:
    JonGinge wrote:
    Yes. I started commuting in London around 1999. The difference between then and now is like night and day

    That's cos you started commuting at night time, and it's the middle of the afternoon now.

    Pretty obvious, when you think about it... :wink:
    :idea: Oh, yeah. Must remember to pay attention :lol:

    I wondered why I was so tired. An 11year commute has left me a bit jaded :shock:
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
    Planet-x Scott
    Rides
  • pastryboy
    pastryboy Posts: 1,385
    Definitely more than there was but revolution is a bit strong.
  • ndru
    ndru Posts: 382
    I have only started cycling recently but at the same time I can see a lot going on on blogs, twitter and so on. It seems that people who want to cycle (not only people who already cycle) have had enough and want a real revolution to happen. There's a lot to do and I guess people who already cycle can only blame themselves for not asking for the right things earlier and not asking loud enough.
    While Boris Bikes and Cycle Highways may not be a revolution itself they have put cycling back on the map and I am looking forward to more in quantity and quality.
    In the meantime I would encourage everyone to write to their councils on the LIP issue. You can find some info here

    http://cyclelondoncity.blogspot.com/201 ... s-now.html

    and

    http://cyclelondoncity.blogspot.com/201 ... -more.html

    There won't be a cycling revolution until people start asking for more.
  • hatbeard
    hatbeard Posts: 1,087
    I thought this was about cyclists taking up arms against addison lee :(
    Hat + Beard
  • EKE_38BPM
    EKE_38BPM Posts: 5,821
    Turns out Addison Lee are hated by bus drivers too.
    FCN 3: Raleigh Record Ace fixie-to be resurrected sometime in the future
    FCN 4: Planet X Schmaffenschmack 2- workhorse
    FCN 9: B Twin Vitamin - winter commuter/loan bike for trainees

    I'm hungry. I'm always hungry!
  • asprilla
    asprilla Posts: 8,440
    ndru wrote:
    IThere's a lot to do and I guess people who already cycle can only blame themselves for not asking for the right things earlier and not asking loud enough.

    What is there to do?
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  • notsoblue
    notsoblue Posts: 5,756
    This blog is worth looking at for people interested in Cycling in London
    http://cyclelondoncity.blogspot.com/201 ... ondon.html

    Puts TFL's back slapping into some perspective I think.
  • ndru
    ndru Posts: 382
    Asprilla wrote:
    ndru wrote:
    IThere's a lot to do and I guess people who already cycle can only blame themselves for not asking for the right things earlier and not asking loud enough.

    What is there to do?

    Exactly my point.

    I've linked to something that you could do. The simplest thing is to write and ask for what you want. Simple as that. If there is something like safety in numbers there's definitely force in numbers.
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    I've been cycling round London since late 2006 and even since then there's been an increase. I remember back in winter 06 and 07 I was often the only cyclist heading purposefully along Old Kent Rd but now there are a fair few others, even on cold winter mornings. The other day I was walking up by that junction at the top of Gray's Inn Rd where Condor is at about 6.30pm and there must have been literally 30-40 cyclists trying to jam themselves into the ASL (along with the usual moped and motorbike riders) heading out of town along Theobolds Rd. I think at certain times on certain routes cyclists must outnumber motorists in London
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  • hatbeard
    hatbeard Posts: 1,087
    I've been cycling round London since late 2006 and even since then there's been an increase. I remember back in winter 06 and 07 I was often the only cyclist heading purposefully along Old Kent Rd but now there are a fair few others, even on cold winter mornings. The other day I was walking up by that junction at the top of Gray's Inn Rd where Condor is at about 6.30pm and there must have been literally 30-40 cyclists trying to jam themselves into the ASL (along with the usual moped and motorbike riders) heading out of town along Theobolds Rd. I think at certain times on certain routes cyclists must outnumber motorists in London

    when I took a cab to my interview at my current employers back last summer we drove along clerkenwell and I was agog at how many cyclists there were whizzing along with the traffic on that stretch of road and I still remember thinking 'f**k that for a game of soldiers, that looks dodgy as f**k you'd never catch me doing that' :lol:
    Hat + Beard
  • asprilla
    asprilla Posts: 8,440
    ndru wrote:
    Asprilla wrote:
    ndru wrote:
    IThere's a lot to do and I guess people who already cycle can only blame themselves for not asking for the right things earlier and not asking loud enough.

    What is there to do?

    Exactly my point.

    I've linked to something that you could do. The simplest thing is to write and ask for what you want. Simple as that. If there is something like safety in numbers there's definitely force in numbers.

    I think you are missing the point; I mean, what is it that you want? I have no problems cycling in and around London and I there isn't really anything I want.
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    hatbeard wrote:
    I've been cycling round London since late 2006 and even since then there's been an increase. I remember back in winter 06 and 07 I was often the only cyclist heading purposefully along Old Kent Rd but now there are a fair few others, even on cold winter mornings. The other day I was walking up by that junction at the top of Gray's Inn Rd where Condor is at about 6.30pm and there must have been literally 30-40 cyclists trying to jam themselves into the ASL (along with the usual moped and motorbike riders) heading out of town along Theobolds Rd. I think at certain times on certain routes cyclists must outnumber motorists in London

    when I took a cab to my interview at my current employers back last summer we drove along clerkenwell and I was agog at how many cyclists there were whizzing along with the traffic on that stretch of road and I still remember thinking 'f**k that for a game of soldiers, that looks dodgy as f**k you'd never catch me doing that' :lol:

    There are certainly more cyclists in north London than south east London. Yesterday evening I whizzed up to the gym on Highbury Corner, turning right at the aforementioned junction and up along Upper St and there were loads of other cyclists. In comparison there are much fewer in SE London but still more than before. SW London has quite a few, that main road down through Clapham and Balham seems well populated by cyclists at peak times...
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  • notsoblue
    notsoblue Posts: 5,756
    Asprilla wrote:
    I think you are missing the point; I mean, what is it that you want? I have no problems cycling in and around London and I there isn't really anything I want.

    Feed stations along Embankment would be nice:

    rvv10mc-sunfeed01_display_image.jpg
  • EKE_38BPM wrote:
    Turns out Addison Lee are hated by bus drivers too.


    its not limited to Bus drivers either. All road users hate them
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  • W1
    W1 Posts: 2,636
    notsoblue wrote:
    Asprilla wrote:
    I think you are missing the point; I mean, what is it that you want? I have no problems cycling in and around London and I there isn't really anything I want.

    Feed stations along Embankment would be nice:

    rvv10mc-sunfeed01_display_image.jpg

    That is a fine idea.
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    W1 wrote:
    notsoblue wrote:
    Asprilla wrote:
    I think you are missing the point; I mean, what is it that you want? I have no problems cycling in and around London and I there isn't really anything I want.

    Feed stations along Embankment would be nice:

    rvv10mc-sunfeed01_display_image.jpg

    That is a fine idea.
    Bluddy pedestrians. They just step out waving their bags! Gah. :wink:

    Edit: more visible/obvious/open bike shops along the drag strip would be nice.
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
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  • ndru
    ndru Posts: 382
    Asprilla wrote:
    ndru wrote:
    Asprilla wrote:
    ndru wrote:
    IThere's a lot to do and I guess people who already cycle can only blame themselves for not asking for the right things earlier and not asking loud enough.

    What is there to do?

    Exactly my point.

    I've linked to something that you could do. The simplest thing is to write and ask for what you want. Simple as that. If there is something like safety in numbers there's definitely force in numbers.

    I think you are missing the point; I mean, what is it that you want? I have no problems cycling in and around London and I there isn't really anything I want.

    Don't want anything really. The thing is while you are comfortable with the conditions of cycling in London, the low level of cycling we have is the result of people wanting something different and not getting it. In my opinion the current infrastructure attracts only very motivated people - the rest are not really keen on cycling on roads with high volume of traffic. I will probably open a can of worms but I have to say that in addition to all that's been done a high quality dedicated cycling infrastructure is needed for a cycling revolution.
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    ndru wrote:
    Asprilla wrote:
    ndru wrote:
    Asprilla wrote:
    ndru wrote:
    IThere's a lot to do and I guess people who already cycle can only blame themselves for not asking for the right things earlier and not asking loud enough.

    What is there to do?

    Exactly my point.

    I've linked to something that you could do. The simplest thing is to write and ask for what you want. Simple as that. If there is something like safety in numbers there's definitely force in numbers.

    I think you are missing the point; I mean, what is it that you want? I have no problems cycling in and around London and I there isn't really anything I want.

    Don't want anything really. The thing is while you are comfortable with the conditions of cycling in London, the low level of cycling we have is the result of people wanting something different and not getting it. In my opinion the current infrastructure attracts only very motivated people - the rest are not really keen on cycling on roads with high volume of traffic. I will probably open a can of worms but I have to say that in addition to all that's been done a high quality dedicated cycling infrastructure is needed for a cycling revolution.

    Ah the vehicular cyclist vs dedicated cycle path cyclist argument. Personally, speaking selfishly here, I would not want too many dedicated cycle tracks as as sure as eggs is eggs, motorists would then demand that cyclists ride on the dedicated paths only and we'd see motorists asking why the "bloody cyclists don't use the cycle tracks". Having seen cycle tracks in cities like Paris and Munich I would not want to use them, they are generally only suitable for low level, slow riding at 15mph or below. They are frequently blocked by parked vehicles, peds wander in and out of them and they are full of litter.

    On the other hand, as you say, the current set up tends to only attract confident, relatively fast cyclists who are confident enough to take on London traffic so if we would like to see much further increase in cycling numbers in London, the dedicated cycle track route is the way to go.

    Personally one thing I would like to see, which could save a lot of lives and make life easier for cyclists in big cities like London are dedicated cycle filter lights on major junctions (like pedestrian green/red man lights) allowing cyclists to set off before motor traffic and clear junctions before the wacky races start. I think a lot of less confident cyclists are put off cycling by big junctions like Elephant and Castle because they get caught up in all the traffic switching lanes and moving about. That and enforcement of ASLs would be helpful.
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  • georgee
    georgee Posts: 537
    The barrier to cycling in London is still facilities, i.e. showers and safe places to lock bikes up rather than safety. There’s a complete lack of legislation demanding employers or Landlords need provide these but slowly we’re seeing more and more tenants demand these if they’re to take space in buildings. Of a workforce of 240 in my London office, I think we’re up to 10 regulars, about 5 fair weather cyclist and about 10 more who are after a space for their bike. When I started 4 years ago I think I was probably one of only 3 people on a bike.
  • asprilla
    asprilla Posts: 8,440
    JonGinge wrote:
    W1 wrote:
    notsoblue wrote:
    Asprilla wrote:
    I think you are missing the point; I mean, what is it that you want? I have no problems cycling in and around London and I there isn't really anything I want.

    Feed stations along Embankment would be nice:

    rvv10mc-sunfeed01_display_image.jpg

    That is a fine idea.
    Bluddy pedestrians. They just step out waving their bags! Gah. :wink:

    Edit: more visible/obvious/open bike shops along the drag strip would be nice.

    Surely getting Boris to get some Yellow Mavic cars touring the city would be a better option? The could do repairs, hand out drinks and give you a little push when you flag...
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • ndru
    ndru Posts: 382
    ndru wrote:
    Asprilla wrote:
    ndru wrote:
    Asprilla wrote:
    ndru wrote:
    IThere's a lot to do and I guess people who already cycle can only blame themselves for not asking for the right things earlier and not asking loud enough.

    What is there to do?

    Exactly my point.

    I've linked to something that you could do. The simplest thing is to write and ask for what you want. Simple as that. If there is something like safety in numbers there's definitely force in numbers.

    I think you are missing the point; I mean, what is it that you want? I have no problems cycling in and around London and I there isn't really anything I want.

    Don't want anything really. The thing is while you are comfortable with the conditions of cycling in London, the low level of cycling we have is the result of people wanting something different and not getting it. In my opinion the current infrastructure attracts only very motivated people - the rest are not really keen on cycling on roads with high volume of traffic. I will probably open a can of worms but I have to say that in addition to all that's been done a high quality dedicated cycling infrastructure is needed for a cycling revolution.

    Ah the vehicular cyclist vs dedicated cycle path cyclist argument. Personally, speaking selfishly here, I would not want too many dedicated cycle tracks as as sure as eggs is eggs, motorists would then demand that cyclists ride on the dedicated paths only and we'd see motorists asking why the "bloody cyclists don't use the cycle tracks". Having seen cycle tracks in cities like Paris and Munich I would not want to use them, they are generally only suitable for low level, slow riding at 15mph or below. They are frequently blocked by parked vehicles, peds wander in and out of them and they are full of litter.

    On the other hand, as you say, the current set up tends to only attract confident, relatively fast cyclists who are confident enough to take on London traffic so if we would like to see much further increase in cycling numbers in London, the dedicated cycle track route is the way to go.

    Personally one thing I would like to see, which could save a lot of lives and make life easier for cyclists in big cities like London are dedicated cycle filter lights on major junctions (like pedestrian green/red man lights) allowing cyclists to set off before motor traffic and clear junctions before the wacky races start. I think a lot of less confident cyclists are put off cycling by big junctions like Elephant and Castle because they get caught up in all the traffic switching lanes and moving about. That and enforcement of ASLs would be helpful.

    Ah, the same old tired myths about cyclists being banned from road because of cycle tracks. The thing is there's only so many people who care about going really fast on their bikes. These are the same people who then demand showers at work because they arrive all sweaty. The majority of wouldbe cyclists would rather go at a non-racing pace but safely. Mass cycling is not about transforming London into a stage of tour de france it's about givng people who want to cycle but are too afraid to a chance.
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    ndru wrote:
    ndru wrote:
    Asprilla wrote:
    ndru wrote:
    Asprilla wrote:
    ndru wrote:
    IThere's a lot to do and I guess people who already cycle can only blame themselves for not asking for the right things earlier and not asking loud enough.

    What is there to do?

    Exactly my point.

    I've linked to something that you could do. The simplest thing is to write and ask for what you want. Simple as that. If there is something like safety in numbers there's definitely force in numbers.

    I think you are missing the point; I mean, what is it that you want? I have no problems cycling in and around London and I there isn't really anything I want.

    Don't want anything really. The thing is while you are comfortable with the conditions of cycling in London, the low level of cycling we have is the result of people wanting something different and not getting it. In my opinion the current infrastructure attracts only very motivated people - the rest are not really keen on cycling on roads with high volume of traffic. I will probably open a can of worms but I have to say that in addition to all that's been done a high quality dedicated cycling infrastructure is needed for a cycling revolution.

    Ah the vehicular cyclist vs dedicated cycle path cyclist argument. Personally, speaking selfishly here, I would not want too many dedicated cycle tracks as as sure as eggs is eggs, motorists would then demand that cyclists ride on the dedicated paths only and we'd see motorists asking why the "bloody cyclists don't use the cycle tracks". Having seen cycle tracks in cities like Paris and Munich I would not want to use them, they are generally only suitable for low level, slow riding at 15mph or below. They are frequently blocked by parked vehicles, peds wander in and out of them and they are full of litter.

    On the other hand, as you say, the current set up tends to only attract confident, relatively fast cyclists who are confident enough to take on London traffic so if we would like to see much further increase in cycling numbers in London, the dedicated cycle track route is the way to go.

    Personally one thing I would like to see, which could save a lot of lives and make life easier for cyclists in big cities like London are dedicated cycle filter lights on major junctions (like pedestrian green/red man lights) allowing cyclists to set off before motor traffic and clear junctions before the wacky races start. I think a lot of less confident cyclists are put off cycling by big junctions like Elephant and Castle because they get caught up in all the traffic switching lanes and moving about. That and enforcement of ASLs would be helpful.

    Ah, the same old tired myths about cyclists being banned from road because of cycle tracks. The thing is there's only so many people who care about going really fast on their bikes. These are the same people who then demand showers at work because they arrive all sweaty. The majority of wouldbe cyclists would rather go at a non-racing pace but safely. Mass cycling is not about transforming London into a stage of tour de france it's about givng people who want to cycle but are too afraid to a chance.

    I'm not disagreeing with you, I understand the arguments for having dedicated cycle tracks and I can see that that might draw a bigger cycling crowd, I was just saying that for me, personally, it would be a set back if cyclists were then forced to use these bike tracks and potter along at 5mph. Personally I like to take my commute at full speed and give it all I've got. Yes I arrive sweaty and need a shower and there is one here where I work but if there wasn't I would just shower at the gym.
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  • ndru
    ndru Posts: 382
    ndru wrote:
    ndru wrote:
    Asprilla wrote:
    ndru wrote:
    Asprilla wrote:
    ndru wrote:
    IThere's a lot to do and I guess people who already cycle can only blame themselves for not asking for the right things earlier and not asking loud enough.

    What is there to do?

    Exactly my point.

    I've linked to something that you could do. The simplest thing is to write and ask for what you want. Simple as that. If there is something like safety in numbers there's definitely force in numbers.

    I think you are missing the point; I mean, what is it that you want? I have no problems cycling in and around London and I there isn't really anything I want.

    Don't want anything really. The thing is while you are comfortable with the conditions of cycling in London, the low level of cycling we have is the result of people wanting something different and not getting it. In my opinion the current infrastructure attracts only very motivated people - the rest are not really keen on cycling on roads with high volume of traffic. I will probably open a can of worms but I have to say that in addition to all that's been done a high quality dedicated cycling infrastructure is needed for a cycling revolution.

    Ah the vehicular cyclist vs dedicated cycle path cyclist argument. Personally, speaking selfishly here, I would not want too many dedicated cycle tracks as as sure as eggs is eggs, motorists would then demand that cyclists ride on the dedicated paths only and we'd see motorists asking why the "bloody cyclists don't use the cycle tracks". Having seen cycle tracks in cities like Paris and Munich I would not want to use them, they are generally only suitable for low level, slow riding at 15mph or below. They are frequently blocked by parked vehicles, peds wander in and out of them and they are full of litter.

    On the other hand, as you say, the current set up tends to only attract confident, relatively fast cyclists who are confident enough to take on London traffic so if we would like to see much further increase in cycling numbers in London, the dedicated cycle track route is the way to go.

    Personally one thing I would like to see, which could save a lot of lives and make life easier for cyclists in big cities like London are dedicated cycle filter lights on major junctions (like pedestrian green/red man lights) allowing cyclists to set off before motor traffic and clear junctions before the wacky races start. I think a lot of less confident cyclists are put off cycling by big junctions like Elephant and Castle because they get caught up in all the traffic switching lanes and moving about. That and enforcement of ASLs would be helpful.

    Ah, the same old tired myths about cyclists being banned from road because of cycle tracks. The thing is there's only so many people who care about going really fast on their bikes. These are the same people who then demand showers at work because they arrive all sweaty. The majority of wouldbe cyclists would rather go at a non-racing pace but safely. Mass cycling is not about transforming London into a stage of tour de france it's about givng people who want to cycle but are too afraid to a chance.

    I'm not disagreeing with you, I understand the arguments for having dedicated cycle tracks and I can see that that might draw a bigger cycling crowd, I was just saying that for me, personally, it would be a set back if cyclists were then forced to use these bike tracks and potter along at 5mph. Personally I like to take my commute at full speed and give it all I've got. Yes I arrive sweaty and need a shower and there is one here where I work but if there wasn't I would just shower at the gym.

    Great. However you still paint the picture in dark colors. The tracks I think about do not force people to use them, merely give them an option to. They are properly enforced and take space from motorists, not from pedestrians. A dutch cycle track gives you at least 2.5m in each direction, but even 2m in one direction gives you enough room to overtake if you really want to go faster. The question is of course that of quality - what we have in London is shambles really.
  • W1
    W1 Posts: 2,636
    Ah the vehicular cyclist vs dedicated cycle path cyclist argument. Personally, speaking selfishly here, I would not want too many dedicated cycle tracks as as sure as eggs is eggs, motorists would then demand that cyclists ride on the dedicated paths only and we'd see motorists asking why the "bloody cyclists don't use the cycle tracks". Having seen cycle tracks in cities like Paris and Munich I would not want to use them, they are generally only suitable for low level, slow riding at 15mph or below. They are frequently blocked by parked vehicles, peds wander in and out of them and they are full of litter.

    On the other hand, as you say, the current set up tends to only attract confident, relatively fast cyclists who are confident enough to take on London traffic so if we would like to see much further increase in cycling numbers in London, the dedicated cycle track route is the way to go.

    Personally one thing I would like to see, which could save a lot of lives and make life easier for cyclists in big cities like London are dedicated cycle filter lights on major junctions (like pedestrian green/red man lights) allowing cyclists to set off before motor traffic and clear junctions before the wacky races start. I think a lot of less confident cyclists are put off cycling by big junctions like Elephant and Castle because they get caught up in all the traffic switching lanes and moving about. That and enforcement of ASLs would be helpful.

    That's all fairly spot on With regard to the "filter" lights, I don't see that working - but I would support "treat red lights as give way if turning left" for cyclists.

    When I try to encourage people to start cycling there are various reasons why they don't want to. Only some of these can be dealt with (realistically)). "Danger" is the main one, and regardless of what is done I doubt that much will amend this perception, short of getting rid of all cars in London. The other issues are more practical - people living in flats with no cycle storage areas; a lack of facilities by employers; the weather. I don't think there is too much that can be done about these issues.
  • W1
    W1 Posts: 2,636
    There is only one dedicated cycle path on my route - and it's a nightmare. You can't overtake. Peds step into it without looking. In winter it wasn't gritted. Seperate lanes are all well and good, but you can bet that if they are built there will eventually become an obligation to use them.