Fred Whitton compared to the Forest of Dean Spring Classic

willbevan

Hi guys,

I have signed up for the Fred Whitton in may.

The Forest of Dean spring classic route runs within a few miles of where I live, so as prep for the Fred Whitton I am going to be riding that route weekly (Well I will start with half of it and work my way up each week by adjusting the route)

My questions is how do the two stack up, I know the Fred Whitton is longer and stepper and points :S

Any advice

Thankfully I'm not a bad climber at 67kg

Cheers

Will

TheStone

In basic numbers:
Dean 135km - 2500m
Fred 177km - 3300m

But that really only tells part of the story.

The Fred was one of the hardest days I've had on a bike. The Dean course is good training, but it never gets as steep and the couple of times I've been there I haven't ever felt dead ... unlike 40k to go on the Fred.

willbevan

many thanks.

I think I will be training on my winter hack all the way through till the day then doing the FOD, using a standard double only. Hopefully it should help when I go to the light weight summer bike and lower gears

Ron Stuart

It will be a lot better than training in Essex but the Fred is much harder and much more exposed.

Tom Butcher

Thing about the FW is it's all about the feature climbs - the route itself isn't relentless and there are quite long sections where you can really shift if you are in a decent group - it's a hard sportive but not in a totally different league to other hilly events - well until you reach Hardknott. I live in Derbyshire and there is nothing on the Fred apart from Hardknott that I couldn't replicate round here.

willbevan

Cheers for the input, makes me feel a bit more relaxed, but I am going to go check out the Hardknott pass

what are the downhills like, can you just let go and enjoy the speed or are a lot of them snaking/switchbacks etc

willbevan

hmmm 96miles in and you get a 30% sign oh yeppie

Tom Butcher

Hardknott is hideous - no getting away from that, you need a triple really or else to be a really strong climber. Most will walk large parts of it.

The descents vary - Kirkstone is fast and enjoyable if you are good at descents, Honister is downright dangerous and in the wet - beware it steepens up, Newlands is fun, Whinlatter easy, Hardknott and Wrynose - you'll probably be on the brakes as often as not - as steep going down them as coming up.

Ron Stuart

Lightweight hardtail mountain bikes wouldn't look out of place on the worst of this baby and would be an absolute blessing going down in the wet (much better brakes).
Give yourself a major pat on the back when you done this-un.

willbevan

I got run over in July and am in the process of building up a new bike which does give me the opurutinty to choose a triple or a compact...

now I consider myself a good climber, and regularly go up climbs with 20-25% small stretches, but no doubt that will be different at 96miles in and 30%+ for a long climb

Triple here we come

mattsccm

Go and ride Vention lane a few times. Don't stop at the Royal Spring. Up and down there a few times will help.

maddog 2

willbevan wrote:

what are the downhills like, can you just let go and enjoy the speed or are a lot of them snaking/switchbacks etc

As said, Kirkstone is smooth and fast - 50+ mph is achievable

Honister is the real tricky one though. Fast bits into bumpy, slightly blind tighter corners. Don't take any risks with it.

Newlands is straightforward - fun and quickish

Whinlatter is a doddle. Almost alpine.

Hardknott is obviously very steep but not too bad as you never get any real speed up.

Wrynose is much quicker than HK and you can really let the bike go but, like Honister, it's bumpy in places so keep an eye out.

willbevan

mattsccm wrote:

Go and ride Vention lane a few times. Don't stop at the Royal Spring. Up and down there a few times will help.

I do know that lane well its on my return leg route for today, only doing 60 miles of the FOD but going up vention lane at the end to get used to the steeper sections

Last time I went up it, my riding mate infront of me started loosing traction, i started sniggering and then promptly loss traction and went into the hedge, karma

rickwiggans

Let it go at the bottom of Wrynose, and you'll die! It is steep - very steep and with extremely tight bends. You will approach this down a very tempting downhill straight! And you will be tired.

solsurf

The only place you can really let the brakes off is Kirkstone just take it easy on the first three corners and then whoop with joy as its the most fun bit of the whole route. The road has broken up quite a bit over honistor and Newlands, so be careful. It is vital to read the road conditions report that is released before the event.

good luck I'm not doing it this year but will be there cheering people on.

willbevan

thanks for the words of warning!

What are the conditions usually like, wet, try? or does it varry quite substantially.


lastly.... i have a 30/39/50 to go on the bike im going to be using....

Would putting a 28T smaller chainring on the front be overkill?

rickwiggans

This is the Lakes! It varies enormously!

willbevan

this is one daunting task for me but i will make it

if anyoen wants to be exceptionally kind and sponser me :

http://www.justgiving.com/will-bevan

It would be greatly appriciated!

cumbriamike

Newlands is straightforward - fun and quickish

This is true but a sudden sharp bend and steep descent at Keksdale Farm catches people out. anyway for what its worth

Kirkstone steady enjoyable ascent - very fast 'thrilling' descent all the way to Hartsop
Honister 30% for half a mile from Seatoller then levels out (only 15%) to the slate mine - Twisting scary breathtaking descent to feed at Buttermere
Newlands Full of Flapjack breeze up this 20% pass then enjoy the fast descent to
Whinlatter Couple of steep bits but the crowds at the top will lift your spirits and coast down the other side for the 'flat' bit
I have missed out a couple of others because anything less than 15% its not a hill in the FW but eventually you will reach
Hardknott Now if you can ride up this you can do anything and the descent well all I remember are the words "never again" Finally we reach
Wrynose and if you rode up Hardknott you will nail this one and if not you won't care, as for the descent its fast but keep concentrating as it would be a shame to miss out on those last few miles of sheer joy as you realise you have survived and are nearly there


Its great really, enjoy the day

320DMsport

Yeah Mike sums it up well.

When i rode i last year there were people off into the scenery off Honister, and people over run the bends off Wrynose.

Other than that just keep yours eyes peeled for bad road surface and expect the un expected with the weather.

I rode Hardknot on a compact 34/28 and i weigh around 73kg so you should be fine, just ride Hardknot in 2 parts, tough up to the first s bend then levels out slightly before the final steep s bend, loads of people there to cheer you on but it is doable!

I found riding Hardknot in a combo of seated then standing and vice versa to keep using diff muscles.

I think Honister deserves some respect as your generally flying along for quite some time then this is the first tough one, lots off pushing if they have over cooked themselves early on in the climb.

Enjoy!

Tony Danno

Hi Will
Glad to here your riding our sportive, We decide this route in memory of Fred, it was never not intention to make it really hard, it's just tough climbing around here
The best advice I can give to you, please just enjoy the day and take in the all the views
Don't take any risks on the descents, they are unforgiving and it's normally me or one of the other medic's who'll be patching you up
But for training advice I can give you is once you've achieved your base mileage, then condition yourself by finding a nice steep climb, Sorry I don't know the Forest of Dean spring classic route, but if you can make a route that keeps going up the steepest climb, do so, ride until your legs start to feel the burning and lactic acid building up, spin it off at the end of the ride and keep doing this for at least one month before the ride.
I promise you if you stick with this it will make the difference on Hardknot and Wrynose pass, this is when most people's legs are shot
Last time I rode iI was on 53/39 and 12/27 and I had no problems
I'll be there this year as normal and may ride it this time with a few of the guest's that are turning up
It's our biggest field this year and we have some new things that will be announced soon
Best of Luck Will
PS I may see you on the day Danno "Lakes Road Club"

Garz

willbevan wrote:

Triple here we come

With the SRAM apex being a viable value purchase (I have campag athena) and cassettes offering up to 27 or even 32 for example on a compact, you don't necessarily have to opt for a triple to tackle tough terrain.

willbevan

Tony Danno wrote:

Hi Will
Glad to here your riding our sportive, We decide this route in memory of Fred, it was never not intention to make it really hard, it's just tough climbing around here
The best advice I can give to you, please just enjoy the day and take in the all the views
Don't take any risks on the descents, they are unforgiving and it's normally me or one of the other medic's who'll be patching you up
But for training advice I can give you is once you've achieved your base mileage, then condition yourself by finding a nice steep climb, Sorry I don't know the Forest of Dean spring classic route, but if you can make a route that keeps going up the steepest climb, do so, ride until your legs start to feel the burning and lactic acid building up, spin it off at the end of the ride and keep doing this for at least one month before the ride.
I promise you if you stick with this it will make the difference on Hardknot and Wrynose pass, this is when most people's legs are shot
Last time I rode iI was on 53/39 and 12/27 and I had no problems
I'll be there this year as normal and may ride it this time with a few of the guest's that are turning up
It's our biggest field this year and we have some new things that will be announced soon
Best of Luck Will
PS I may see you on the day Danno "Lakes Road Club"

Many thanks for the advice

There isa 25% bit in the FOD spring classic, that is about 3/4 the way through, however I am starting it half way round since the route passes me half way round.

I will be using vention lane though, which the course goes near but for some reason ignores so I will def take your advice of practising steep hills

willbevan

cumbriamike wrote:

Newlands is straightforward - fun and quickish

This is true but a sudden sharp bend and steep descent at Keksdale Farm catches people out. anyway for what its worth

Kirkstone steady enjoyable ascent - very fast 'thrilling' descent all the way to Hartsop
Honister 30% for half a mile from Seatoller then levels out (only 15%) to the slate mine - Twisting scary breathtaking descent to feed at Buttermere
Newlands Full of Flapjack breeze up this 20% pass then enjoy the fast descent to
Whinlatter Couple of steep bits but the crowds at the top will lift your spirits and coast down the other side for the 'flat' bit
I have missed out a couple of others because anything less than 15% its not a hill in the FW but eventually you will reach
Hardknott Now if you can ride up this you can do anything and the descent well all I remember are the words "never again" Finally we reach
Wrynose and if you rode up Hardknott you will nail this one and if not you won't care, as for the descent its fast but keep concentrating as it would be a shame to miss out on those last few miles of sheer joy as you realise you have survived and are nearly there




Its great really, enjoy the day

Thanks for this write up, it puts it in perspective

stevo1602

Hi

I have ridden both, and the Fred is a bit harder mainly because of the extra distance.
I live in Cheltenham so ride around the FOD quite regularly and the Sportive route is quite tough...being relentless in the amount of hills...nothing drastic...just they keep coming with Symonds Yat at the end.
I think your training route will be fine...perhaps build up to riding longer than the FOD sportive route to get used to the distance and time in the saddle for Fred.
Don't bother with a triple, if you are used to riding a double 53/39 say 12/27 stick with it.
Also I find thinking too much about what is coming up is a bad thing...not knowing what is coming and just having to ride it because its there is better.
Anyway enjoy, as both events are cracking Sportives.

willbevan

cheers,

I will keep at it