gully pot covers

ginger1

I came off my bike yesterday because my bike wheel fell between the gaps in a gully pot cover on the side of the road. I went ar$e over elbow right infront of about ten people at a bus stop - typical. A couple of nice bruises but nothing serious, but my front wheel was bent beyond all recognition and needs a rebuild.

Looking at the drain cover i noticed it was one with diagonal slats (rather than ones at right angles with the kerb like they used to be when as a kid we used to play marbles on them....). The way the gaps were angled it seems to me obvious that when manouvering in traffic the likelihood of a bike wheel going down it is quite high.

Has anyone done anything similar? Im half minded to try and get the council to pay for my wheel.

dabber

On part of one of my regular routes many of the drain covers have been stolen by the certain members of society. They've been like it for some weeks and the most the council seem to have done is pop a few cones in the holes.

jgsi

ginger1 wrote:

I came off my bike yesterday because my bike wheel fell between the gaps in a gully pot cover on the side of the road. I went ar$e over elbow right infront of about ten people at a bus stop - typical. A couple of nice bruises but nothing serious, but my front wheel was bent beyond all recognition and needs a rebuild.

Looking at the drain cover i noticed it was one with diagonal slats (rather than ones at right angles with the kerb like they used to be when as a kid we used to play marbles on them....). The way the gaps were angled it seems to me obvious that when manouvering in traffic the likelihood of a bike wheel going down it is quite high.

Has anyone done anything similar? Im half minded to try and get the council to pay for my wheel.

:oops: did the same last year but the gaps for my painful downfall were in line with travel direction and wide enough even to swallow wheels larger than 32... HOWEVER no case against the council I'm afraid .. according to the BC legals after filling out their claim forms and submitting photographic evidence.. havent bothered to renew this year.

fossyant

Thing is not to ride that close to the curb. There are a couple on a cycle lane near me that the slots are the same direction as travel - easy to swallow a road bike wheel. Diagonally slotted ones and those at 90 degrees to the curb are OK.

Stay a bit further out really. Oh and avoid turning on any metal covers, especially if wet.

Pross

The Council will only have to pay if you can prove that it has been incorrectly installed (or possibly if this gully was in a cycle lane) as the double triangle gully gratings are an approved product. They are supposed to be installed with the slots running in a specific direction (I'll check which as I can never remember). All gullies can be a pain but generally you shouldn't need to ride less than half a metre from the kerb so they shouldn't cause a problem.

jgsi

fossyant wrote:

Thing is not to ride that close to the curb. There are a couple on a cycle lane near me that the slots are the same direction as travel - easy to swallow a road bike wheel. Diagonally slotted ones and those at 90 degrees to the curb are OK.

Stay a bit further out really. Oh and avoid turning on any metal covers, especially if wet.

I am very well aware of street furniture hazards after nearly 40 years riding/ driving but
if I hadnt been trying to be a 'good boy' and trickling with the traffic as it backed up instead of being a cantankerous roadie and sticking meself in the whole lane as I usually do...
well taught me .. didnt it... never saw the grid cos of low sun until my face inspected it.

ginger1

Thanks all. The only reason I was close to the kerb was that I was manouvering through staionary traffic (obviously in a legal and considerate manner...).

Pross, Id be interested to see which way the slots are supposed to be angled because in my mind they'd be much safer pointing in the other direction.

Never paid much attention to drain covers but find myself looking at them all now. Fascinating...

brazilianhipster

Pross wrote:

The Council will only have to pay if you can prove that it has been incorrectly installed (or possibly if this gully was in a cycle lane) as the double triangle gully gratings are an approved product. They are supposed to be installed with the slots running in a specific direction (I'll check which as I can never remember). All gullies can be a pain but generally you shouldn't need to ride less than half a metre from the kerb so they shouldn't cause a problem.

There are countless different styles of gully gratings out there. The vast majority of them require the gratings to be inserted into the frame with the slats running in such a direction to a) allow water runoff to enter the gully pot correctly and b) doesn't catch cycle wheels! If you can prove that the grating has been incorrectly stored, I'm sure you have good grounds to make a claim with the authorities. It's worth having a go!

_Brun_

I had an incident with one of these a couple of years ago. The diagonal holes evidently give a false sense of security...





I was also filtering down the nearside of stationary traffic, and probably only doing about 5mph at the time but it was still enough to throw me onto the floor - fortunately onto the kerb rather than further into the road.

Neither myself or the bike suffered any proper damage so I didn't have to bother trying to claim. I did report it through Fill That Hole, although as far as I know it's still in the same state.

*AL*

Pross wrote:

They are supposed to be installed with the slots running in a specific direction (I'll check which as I can never remember).

The frame of a gully lid isn't symmetrical.

Three sides of the frame have protrusions that sit on a mortar base around the gully pot, the forth side is flat so it sits flush against the kerb.

The gully lid is either hinged (which obviously can't be installed incorrectly) or they have keyways in the frame that lock into the lid that only allow them to be fitted in the correct direction as in the case of the double triangular lids.
These features also prevent 3rd parties interfering with them and causing a hazard.

The slots in the lid should either run at 90 or 45 degrees to the kerb, never parallel.

The only way that the slots can run parallel with the kerb is if the lid's frame is installed incorrectly, this would make the local authority responsible for any damage inured to your wheel.

If this is the case, take photos before reporting it to the L. A.
Then report the incident and request a representative of the L.A. (highways inspector is possible) not the Highways dept to meet you at the scene at a convenient time to discuss the incident.
If installed incorrectly it would be plainly obvious to them.
Explain that you've sustained damage to your property and would like to claim and you would like conformation in writing that a site meeting has taken place and the findings of that meeting.

Most local authorities will make it as hard as possible to claim, some have been known to correct a defect whilst a claim is in progress and then deny all knowledge of any defect.
If you have written conformation from one of their employees that they've acknowledged a defect and photos to support, it'll make the whole process a lot easier.

ginger1

Helpful responses thanks.

From the photos in Bruns response, my wheel actually went down the diagonal slats rather than the edge of the grate like Brun. However, if you assiume that in the photograph the direction of traffic is from the bottom to the top, the slats in my case went in the opposite direction. Which in my mind makes slipping into it more likely. does that make sense?

Pross

Al, I've seen loads of gullies incorrectly installed including some that are stamped with the direction they should be put in. It's amazing how many mistakes can be made despite them being obvious (I've seen pedestrian guardrail installed with the visibility gap at the bottom!!). That said, with the openings at 45 degrees it takes some doing to get a wheel stuck in them accidently whichever way they have been installed :shock:

ginger1

Had i not actually got my wheel stuck and gone over the bars, I would never have thought it was likely either! The wheel was well and truly stuck in there though, took some force to get it back out again. Must have just been unlucky. Is there any drainage benefit from having them at 45 degrees to the kerb rather than 90 degrees?

Pross

The 45 degree slots are more down to the cover being made from two triangular pieces. They're usually used on heavily trafficked roads as they are less liable to rocking.

shouldbeinbed

Oldham council routinely put them in in line with the direction of travel, it took a bit of a campaign by one of the councellors and the BUG to get them changed to the perpendicular to the kerb style.

*AL*

Pross wrote:

Al, I've seen loads of gullies incorrectly installed including some that are stamped with the direction they should be put in. It's amazing how many mistakes can be made despite them being obvious

Quite agree, I've seen plenty installed incorrectly too.

I mainly wanted to point out that the lids are tamper proof, so outside interference is imposable unless they go to the trouble of physically digging out the frame, turning it 90 degrees and re-setting it.

If you do have an accident on a lid that's facing the wrong way then it was incorrectly and the Highway Authority is liable.

ginger1

so can anyone tell me what is the correct way for the diagonal slats to be facing? In my mind the 45 degree angle needs to be pointing against the traffic.

Pross

I believe they are angled from the kerb towards the road in order to collect the water more efficiently (as in the photo above but without the big gap at the edge!)

ginger1

yes, thats what I meant. The one that did for me and my front wheel was set with the slats in the opposite direction.