Shimano Saint brakes

scandalousg
scandalousg Posts: 121
edited January 2011 in MTB general
I'm not gettin on with my Juicy 3.5's and now the sales are upon us, I'm debating on splashing out for some new stopping power. 

Shimano saints have caught my eye but I'm not sure whether try would be overkill or tw type of riding I do. I mainly ride cross country but am planning a trip overseas to the alps etc when I get fitter. 

Would you peeps think they are overkill for me?

Comments

  • The Northern Monkey
    The Northern Monkey Posts: 19,136
    One of the most powerful DH brakes out there... I had some on my freeride HT. Tonnes of power but no much modulation.

    You'd probably want something a bit more controllable.

    Formula?

    http://store.formula-brake.com/
    Santa Cruz Butcher
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    Formula Oros from their sale, not neccesarily the best but very good, excellent allrounders and half the price of anything better.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • CraigXXL
    CraigXXL Posts: 1,852
    The Northern Monkey wrote:
    One of the most powerful DH brakes out there... I had some on my freeride HT. Tonnes of power but no much modulation.

    Did you have the old Saints by any chance as mine have loads of modulation/feel to them and others who I know that have them think the same.
    GT Force 1.0

    Evil Sovereign
  • ilovedirt
    ilovedirt Posts: 5,798
    Juicy 3's have plenty of power, have you tried bleeding them/getting bigger rotors? Juicy 3's should be more than enough for cross country.
    Production Privee Shan

    B'Twin Triban 5
  • scandalousg
    scandalousg Posts: 121
    I'm not dismissing the power, but I've had quite a few problems with them is all. My first service last year discovered problems with them, yet were sent away a replacements were sent free of charge, unfortunately there was problems with these too, so finally a second set of replacements were sent which were okay. Since then I've had an on off problem with them rubbing/replacing the pads. So I'd quite like to get away from Avids.
  • getonyourbike
    getonyourbike Posts: 2,648
    scandalousg wrote:
    I'm not dismissing the power, but I've had quite a few problems with them is all. My first service last year discovered problems with them, yet were sent away a replacements were sent free of charge, unfortunately there was problems with these too, so finally a second set of replacements were sent which were okay. Since then I've had an on off problem with them rubbing/replacing the pads. So I'd quite like to get away from Avids.
    I'm the same, my juicy 3's are a pain, though often it is a stuck caliper not retracting fully, my next set of brakes won't be avid, I'd love a set of oros

    http://www.mtbe.co.uk/avid-juicy-rubbin ... 10927.html
  • The Northern Monkey
    The Northern Monkey Posts: 19,136
    CraigXXL wrote:
    The Northern Monkey wrote:
    One of the most powerful DH brakes out there... I had some on my freeride HT. Tonnes of power but no much modulation.

    Did you have the old Saints by any chance as mine have loads of modulation/feel to them and others who I know that have them think the same.

    New ones.

    Overkill for normal riding.
    Santa Cruz Butcher
  • CraigXXL
    CraigXXL Posts: 1,852
    I can't understand why you didn't enjoy the feel of the Saints but agree total overkill on a XC bike.
    GT Force 1.0

    Evil Sovereign
  • scandalousg
    scandalousg Posts: 121
    Thanks peeps. I'll leave off the hardcore hardware for now and check the 'buying section' and Formula link for recommendations.
  • The Northern Monkey
    The Northern Monkey Posts: 19,136
    CraigXXL wrote:
    I can't understand why you didn't enjoy the feel of the Saints but agree total overkill on a XC bike.


    never said i didn't like them :wink:
    Santa Cruz Butcher
  • hennez
    hennez Posts: 255
    why dont you get some XT's???
    My bike takes me places that school never could
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,665
    CraigXXL wrote:
    I can't understand why you didn't enjoy the feel of the Saints but agree total overkill on a XC bike.
    A lot of people don't get along with the 4-pot saints, complaining they're too powerful, with too little modulation. This should surely come as no surprise to you.
  • scandalousg
    scandalousg Posts: 121
    hennez, I may just do that.
  • CraigXXL
    CraigXXL Posts: 1,852
    yeehaamcgee wrote:
    A lot of people don't get along with the 4-pot saints, complaining they're too powerful, with too little modulation. This should surely come as no surprise to you.
    My experience is coming from using Juicy 3's, Auriga Comps, Hope Mono4's to Shimano XT and Saint's. The feel from both the Shimano's are as good as the Hopes, known for their modulation.
    The problem with Saints is that they are designed as a 1 finger brake or 1.5 as Shimano put it (don't know how you get half a finger on lever) and people that continue to pull the lever with two fingers end up going over the bars like I did. Now I have my brain trained into 1 finger braking, which is the holy Mecca of braking so that you have more digits on the bars for control, I don't have a problem. If you do use two fingers then there is no feel to the lever as it pulls in too quick and front locks up and disaster follows. Using the one finger as they are designed and they feel totally different with a great feel to them.
    GT Force 1.0

    Evil Sovereign
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,665
    Still, it's a common complaint/comment, even from experienced DH riders.
  • CraigXXL
    CraigXXL Posts: 1,852
    I know where you're coming from and from my own experience of them grabbing the lever with two fingers like normal ends in up locking the front. You have to try and retrain your brain into the way you grab the lever a bit like tucking your left leg away when driving an automatic car for the first time. No doubt when I ride another bike on something that requires strong braking I'll end pulling the lever with one finger and crashing due to not enough power.
    GT Force 1.0

    Evil Sovereign
  • The Northern Monkey
    The Northern Monkey Posts: 19,136
    CraigXXL
    I use 1 finger on my XT's and have more than enough power with 180mm rotors front and rear but also have a LOT more modulation than i ever did with the saints.
    Santa Cruz Butcher
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,665
    CraigXXL wrote:
    I know where you're coming from and from my own experience of them grabbing the lever with two fingers like normal ends in up locking the front. You have to try and retrain your brain into the way you grab the lever a bit like tucking your left leg away when driving an automatic car for the first time. No doubt when I ride another bike on something that requires strong braking I'll end pulling the lever with one finger and crashing due to not enough power.
    Lots of people use one finger braking with any modern rotor brake
    :wink:
  • *AJ*
    *AJ* Posts: 1,080
    I still dont understand how a brake can be too powerful! lol.........

    If you launch yourself over the bars, thats your fault... not the brakes!

    I love my Saint 4 pots, they are truely amazing brakes!
  • The Northern Monkey
    The Northern Monkey Posts: 19,136
    *AJ* wrote:
    I still dont understand how a brake can be too powerful! lol.........

    If you launch yourself over the bars, thats your fault... not the brakes!

    I love my Saint 4 pots, they are truely amazing brakes!

    Because when you *dab* the brakes to scrub off a tiny bit of speed, you can lock the wheels, lose traction and either lose control or lose speed.
    Santa Cruz Butcher
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,665
    *AJ* wrote:
    I still dont understand how a brake can be too powerful! lol.........

    If you launch yourself over the bars, thats your fault... not the brakes!

    I love my Saint 4 pots, they are truely amazing brakes!
    I'm with you on this one. I like having stupid power at my fingertips, because I know it's available when I need it. I also like having a brake that isn't going to end up boiled halfway down a stupid descent.
    But, I can also appreciate how others prefer braking feel over outright power.
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    Yeah, it's a personal taste thing. I spent ages tuning power out of my motorbike brakes, I like a long lever throw and very little initial bite but with a nice linear load of power there if I choose it. Some people like brakes like lightswitches :lol:
    Uncompromising extremist
  • CraigXXL
    CraigXXL Posts: 1,852
    I really don't get this as the Saints aren't on/off switches like some brakes and there is plenty of feel to let you know what is going on. The cam system on the Shimano brakes is often critised for doing little in the initial stroke so dabbing a brake and locking up isn't an issue. The freestroke screw limits this dead area to a certain extent but still the first 5mm of stroke does little but from there it is a linear pull/power effort to about 85-90% of the lever travel to full lock up power. After that you squeezing the lever for the hell of it.
    I don't know how this compares to Formulas as I haven't ridden there best brakes so can't do a comparison but I can't imagine it so vastly different less the initial stroke.
    Yeehaa, when you get a chance try some and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised about them.
    GT Force 1.0

    Evil Sovereign
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,665
    CraigXXL wrote:
    Yeehaa, when you get a chance try some and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised about them.
    Erm, like I said, I actually like super power brakes, and really like the modulation on shimano setups.
    I've got the old Saint 2-pots on the old bike, and begrudge changing the brakes on the new(er) wolf-ridge, because they're GREEN!
    When I do finally get round to upgrading the brakes though, I will be getting the 4-pot Saints.

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