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Box Hill Challenge 2011

TheStoneTheStone Posts: 2,291
Following on from last year's:
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12674438

Way off PB, but not bad for me in Jan, with mostly a massive headwind !!!


Name..........................Weight.......Time.....Month.....TOR...........................Watts/WattsKg/AvHR
TheStone....................89kg..........8:50......Jan........Commuter/Sportive....173HR
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Posts

  • jzedjzed Posts: 2,926
    Name..........................Weight.......Time.....Month.....TOR...........................Watts/WattsKg/AvHR
    JZed..........................105kg.........7:48......Jan........Commuter...................170HR
    TheStone....................89kg..........8:50......Jan........Commuter/Sportive....173HR
  • Name..........................Weight.......Time.....Month.....TOR...........................Watts/WattsKg/AvHR
    JZed..........................105kg.........7:48......Jan........Commuter...................170HR
    TheStone....................89kg..........8:50......Jan........Commuter/Sportive....173HR
    Airbusboy...................69.............8:30......Feb.........Sportive...............................

    First time i've surmounted box hill via the road. Took it easy as it was exactly in the middle of my 70+ mile loop from SW london. It was appox 8.5 mins as my watch showed 14:12 when i started and just ticked into 14:20 at the top. Flap-Jak made the effort worth while :-).
    'Ride hard for those who can't.....'
  • Name..........................Weight.......Time.....Month.....TOR...........................Watts/WattsKg/AvHR
    Leejdavies..................84kg..........7:18......Feb.........Commuter/Sportive.....N/A
    JZed..........................105kg.........7:48......Jan........Commuter....................170HR
    Airbusboy...................69..............8:30......Feb.........Sportive...............................
    TheStone....................89kg..........8:50......Jan........Commuter/Sportive......173HR

    First time I've headed to the Surrey hills, got a bit lost trying to find zig zag road but overall enjoyed it. Wind was an absolute B*itch. Although meant I could sit at around 33mph pretty much all the way back into London.

    Will most certainly be heading back. :twisted:

    Next time I'll be sure to try those Flap-Jacks at the top. Good call Airbusboy.
    Up: Wilier Mortirolo
    Down: Orange Patriot
  • Red GTRed GT Posts: 40
    Name..........................Weight.......Time.....Month.....TOR........................Watts/WattsKg/AvHR
    Red GT......................74kg...........6:33.....Feb.........Sportive......................320W/161HR
    Leejdavies..................84kg..........7:18......Feb.........Commuter/Sportive.....N/A
    JZed..........................105kg.........7:48......Jan........Commuter....................170HR
    Airbusboy...................69kg..............8:30......Feb.........Sportive...............................
    TheStone....................89kg..........8:50......Jan........Commuter/Sportive......173HR

    Really windy today but out with some good riders. Don't imagine I'll be top for long...
  • airbusboy wrote:
    Name..........................Weight.......Time.....Month.....TOR...........................Watts/WattsKg/AvHR
    JZed..........................105kg.........7:48......Jan........Commuter...................170HR
    TheStone....................89kg..........8:50......Jan........Commuter/Sportive....173HR
    Airbusboy...................69.............8:30......Feb.........Sportive...............................

    First time i've surmounted box hill via the road. Took it easy as it was exactly in the middle of my 70+ mile loop from SW london. It was appox 8.5 mins as my watch showed 14:12 when i started and just ticked into 14:20 at the top. Flap-Jak made the effort worth while :-).

    Doesnt that make it approx 7.30 then? If you assume you started around 14:12:30 and finished at 14:20:00 then that is 7:30 rather than 8:30?
  • furragfurrag Posts: 481
    Name..........................Weight.......Time.....Month.....TOR........................Watts/WattsKg/AvHR
    Red GT......................74kg...........6:33......Feb.........Sportive......................320W/161HR
    Furrag........................68kg..........7:00......Feb.........Newbie Cat 4..........92% MHR/SW gales
    Leejdavies..................84kg..........7:18......Feb.........Commuter/Sportive.....N/A
    JZed..........................105kg.........7:48......Jan........Commuter....................170HR
    Airbusboy...................69kg.........8:30......Feb.........Sportive...............................
    TheStone....................89kg..........8:50......Jan........Commuter/Sportive......173HR

    13 seconds slower than last years best. Happy with that. I was 8 seconds ahead of my PB at one point, but I couldn't sustain it today. Am aiming for about 6:20 by the end of the year.

    I'm guessing a North-Westerly wind is the most favourable?
  • jibberjimjibberjim Posts: 2,810
    Name..........................Weight.......Time.....Month.....TOR........................Watts/WattsKg/AvHR
    Red GT......................74kg...........6:33......Feb.........Sportive......................320W/161HR
    Furrag........................68kg..........7:00......Feb.........Newbie Cat 4..........92% MHR/SW gales
    JibberJim....................77kg..........7:12......Feb.........Club run hero...........331W/164HR
    Leejdavies..................84kg..........7:18......Feb.........Commuter/Sportive.....N/A
    JZed..........................105kg.........7:48......Jan........Commuter....................170HR
    Airbusboy...................69kg.........8:30......Feb.........Sportive...............................
    TheStone....................89kg..........8:50......Jan........Commuter/Sportive......173HR

    Somewhat off the pace...
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • jibberjimjibberjim Posts: 2,810
    Red GT wrote:
    Really windy today but out with some good riders. Don't imagine I'll be top for long...

    That's low wattage for the time - good aero kit or some sneaky drafting?
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • Red GTRed GT Posts: 40
    The power figure comes from Sportstracks (via my Garmin 705) so it might be a bit dodgy, the heart-rate is right though!

    No drafting and no all-in-one lycra suits or silly hats just graft!!
  • Oh dear, I didn't realise my maths was that bad. :oops: . I'll leave it at 8:30 as I'm on my iPhone and hopefully update in a couple of days with an all out effort. At 69kg 8:30 is v'slow!!

    Rgds
    'Ride hard for those who can't.....'
  • jibberjimjibberjim Posts: 2,810
    Red GT wrote:
    The power figure comes from Sportstracks (via my Garmin 705) so it might be a bit dodgy, the heart-rate is right though!

    No drafting and no all-in-one lycra suits or silly hats just graft!!

    So I think it's very unlikely you could get up there in that time with only 320watts. I'm guessing the calc is underestimating - possibly the rolling resistence as the road is particularly un smooth!
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • Name..........................Weight.......Time.....Month.....TOR........................Watts/WattsKg/AvHR
    TarmacExpert............70kg...........6:27......Feb........TTer.........................367W/175HR
    Red GT......................74kg...........6:33......Feb.........Sportive..................320W/161HR
    Furrag........................68kg..........7:00......Feb.........Newbie Cat 4...........92% MHR/SW gales
    JibberJim....................77kg..........7:12......Feb.........Club run hero...........331W/164HR
    Leejdavies..................84kg..........7:18......Feb.........Commuter/Sportive.....N/A
    JZed..........................105kg.........7:48......Jan........Commuter....................170HR
    Airbusboy...................69kg.........8:30......Feb.........Sportive...............................
    TheStone....................89kg..........8:50......Jan........Commuter/Sportive......173HR
  • fred22fred22 Posts: 509
    Why dont we do this on Strava? Thats what it does! See http://www.strava.com

    You upload your ride gpx file like any other such site. But what Strava does is to allow you to select segments of your ride that are of interest such as climbs and save them for comparing with other riders performance on the same segment (and if you upload from a Garmin 500/705/800 it will extract categorised climbs automatically). It then compares *all* other uploaded routes to see if anyone else has ridden the segment/climb and if they have then it will create a KOM table or leader board. Any future uploaded rides are also scrutinised for this and every other segment.

    We can then just have a link to that segment page from this topic.

    Here's an example of a segment page showing all riders efforts http://app.strava.com/segments/634560 "Roundy Ln To Shrigley" I think I'm sixth (woot!!) but it shows Power etc too if you have uploaded this. So there'd be a new page for Box Hill and we can then just have a link to that segment page from this topic.

    So what we'd have to do:

    * NapoleonD needs to start seeing as its his idea. Create a free Strava account and upload a gpx or garmin file which contains the Box Hill segment. If the former, gpx file he will then need to manually create the segment -I'm happy to help as this is a wee bit clunky, theres a map and a slider and you set start and end positions using the slider. It'd be a lot better if you could just click on the map but thats another story. If from a Garmin it should just extract this and categorise but not having a Garmin I cant say if you can edit this.
    * Everyone who wants to join in create a free Strava account -you can upload five rides in any calendar month which should be sufficient.
    * Upload any subsequent ride where you have followed the segment and Strava will automatically identify that you have done so and add you to the leaderboard

    Job done and its way easy to see and compare
  • jibberjimjibberjim Posts: 2,810
    fred22 wrote:
    Why dont we do this on Strava? Thats what it does! See http://www.strava.com

    There's a few reasons not to do it on Strava. Me and TarmacExpert could take the KW training run out there, do it as a group ride, and probably knock 45 seconds or more off are solo times. The problem is that strava doesn't care about drafting, but the Challenge rules do care! So we can't differentiate between the two.
    * NapoleonD needs to start seeing as its his idea. Create a free Strava account and upload a gpx or garmin file which contains the Box Hill segment.

    The Box Hill strava segment is at http://app.strava.com/segments/627910 It's already been ridden 120 times... If you look at hills south west of london me and TarmacExpert are fighting over them. And the rumour that we plan the KW training rides as per the weather conditions to select Strava sections that we can take is entirely scurrilous.

    But as I say, the big problem is that the hill is flat enough that drafting can make a huge difference. Strava also currently doesn't let you view just this years - so it looks like I'm the fastest even though I've not broken 7:12 this year (thanks to all the pies)
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • fred22fred22 Posts: 509
    Whoops right post wrong topic!!
  • bcssbcss Posts: 174
    jibberjim wrote:
    Red GT wrote:
    The power figure comes from Sportstracks (via my Garmin 705) so it might be a bit dodgy, the heart-rate is right though!

    No drafting and no all-in-one lycra suits or silly hats just graft!!

    So I think it's very unlikely you could get up there in that time with only 320watts. I'm guessing the calc is underestimating - possibly the rolling resistence as the road is particularly un smooth!

    agree with jibberjim, the power figure is way off, was up there last year in the summer and with 300w, same weight but 1:15 slower, would suggest you remove it as it's just confusing part. later on in the year when ppl won't read the whole history
  • marykamaryka Posts: 748
    bcss wrote:
    agree with jibberjim, the power figure is way off, was up there last year in the summer and with 300w, same weight but 1:15 slower, would suggest you remove it as it's just confusing part. later on in the year when ppl won't read the whole history
    Yep, for me to do that time I needed something like 285w at 20kg less. Here's a better watts estimator than the sporttracks power plugin, http://bikecalculator.com/wattsMetric.html

    I'd guess that Red GT actually put out ~370w to do 6:33 (not knowing the exact weather conditions of course, but having a good idea of everything else -- 2.5km, 5% avg gradient, rider/bike weight, temperature, etc.)
  • Name..........................Weight.......Time.....Month.....TOR........................Watts/WattsKg/AvHR
    TarmacExpert............70kg...........6:27......Feb........TTer.........................367W/175HR
    Red GT......................74kg...........6:33......Feb.........Sportive..................320W/161HR
    Furrag........................68kg..........7:00......Feb.........Newbie Cat 4...........92% MHR/SW gales
    JibberJim....................77kg..........7:12......Feb.........Club run hero...........331W/164HR
    Leejdavies..................84kg..........7:18......Feb.........Commuter/Sportive.....N/A
    Carbolite 103..............70kg..........7:45.......Feb......Occasional Sundays...fixie 42/16
    JZed..........................105kg.........7:48......Jan........Commuter....................170HR
    Airbusboy...................69kg.........8:30......Feb.........Sportive...............................
    TheStone....................89kg..........8:50......Jan........Commuter/Sportive......173HR
    Carerra virtuoso 2004
    Peugeot 1980sfixie/ss (42x16)
    Raleigh Record Ace 1986
    Peugeot 1980s 3 speed
  • jzedjzed Posts: 2,926
    maryka wrote:
    bcss wrote:
    agree with jibberjim, the power figure is way off, was up there last year in the summer and with 300w, same weight but 1:15 slower, would suggest you remove it as it's just confusing part. later on in the year when ppl won't read the whole history
    Yep, for me to do that time I needed something like 285w at 20kg less. Here's a better watts estimator than the sporttracks power plugin, http://bikecalculator.com/wattsMetric.html

    I'd guess that Red GT actually put out ~370w to do 6:33 (not knowing the exact weather conditions of course, but having a good idea of everything else -- 2.5km, 5% avg gradient, rider/bike weight, temperature, etc.)

    Interesting link:

    My time/weight suggests I was generating 397w

    If I was to lose 1 1/2 stone and generate the same power, my time would improve by around 30 seconds.

    To get sub 7 minutes - I'm going to have to either lose over 2 1/2 stone or increase my power output to 456 watts - or a combination

    To get close to you guys at the top I would have to kick out as much power as Lance Armstrong.

    Can we have a power output league?
  • Red GTRed GT Posts: 40
    Name..........................Weight.......Time.....Month.....TOR........................Watts/WattsKg/AvHR
    TarmacExpert............70kg...........6:27......Feb........TTer.........................367W/175HR
    Red GT......................74kg...........6:33......Feb.........Sportive..................161HR
    Furrag........................68kg..........7:00......Feb.........Newbie Cat 4...........92% MHR/SW gales
    JibberJim....................77kg..........7:12......Feb.........Club run hero...........331W/164HR
    Leejdavies..................84kg..........7:18......Feb.........Commuter/Sportive.....N/A
    Carbolite 103..............70kg..........7:45.......Feb......Occasional Sundays...fixie 42/16
    JZed..........................105kg.........7:48......Jan........Commuter....................170HR
    Airbusboy...................69kg.........8:30......Feb.........Sportive...............................
    TheStone....................89kg..........8:50......Jan........Commuter/Sportive......173HR

    Here we go, my entry without the power reading. I suppose I could solve the whole issue by buying a power meter. As ever there's always something else to pour money into with cycling! For now I'll stick with HR's as my training guide and wait on the lottery.

    I'm not sure how much drafting is a factor on Box Hill. I'd love to find someone to wheel-suck but there's so many ways to tackle the hill it would be hard to match styles (I normally go off like a rocket and fade). From my experience, the only advantage of having other riders on a busy day is having more people to "pick-off" on the way up.
  • jibberjimjibberjim Posts: 2,810
    JZed wrote:
    To get sub 7 minutes - I'm going to have to either lose over 2 1/2 stone or increase my power output to 456 watts - or a combination

    It's actually not as pure as that can be, conditions can actually make a lot of difference, evne pacing strategies can make quite a bit of difference - I think I did a 6:20 at around 400 watts average because I'd effectivel blown up at around 5 minutes into.

    Last year my best time was 5:45 with 425 watts. Yet I did 435 watts up there the month before for a slower time - and you have to remember I only give it that sort of effort when the conditions are reasonably favourable, a big south east wind when it's freezing and I'm not even going to bother hurting myself that much when it won't get me anywhere.

    Also remember 2 years I was slower than you are now.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • jzedjzed Posts: 2,926
    jibberjim wrote:
    JZed wrote:
    To get sub 7 minutes - I'm going to have to either lose over 2 1/2 stone or increase my power output to 456 watts - or a combination

    It's actually not as pure as that can be, conditions can actually make a lot of difference, evne pacing strategies can make quite a bit of difference - I think I did a 6:20 at around 400 watts average because I'd effectivel blown up at around 5 minutes into.

    Last year my best time was 5:45 with 425 watts. Yet I did 435 watts up there the month before for a slower time - and you have to remember I only give it that sort of effort when the conditions are reasonably favourable, a big south east wind when it's freezing and I'm not even going to bother hurting myself that much when it won't get me anywhere.

    Also remember 2 years I was slower than you are now.

    Conditions were good but it was only my second time and whilst paced it as well as I probably could I lost 20 seconds at the top stopping at the wrong point.

    Target is to drop 14lbs and improve power and technique, and get a sub-7. May have to try and throw myself into one of your training rides over the next month or two. Am working my way up through the rides to see whether can manage the speed and distance.
  • jibberjimjibberjim Posts: 2,810
    Name..........................Weight.......Time.....Month.....TOR........................Watts/WattsKg/AvHR
    JibberJim....................77kg..........6:13......Feb.........Club run hero...........402W/167HR
    TarmacExpert............70kg...........6:27......Feb........TTer.........................367W/175HR
    Red GT......................74kg...........6:33......Feb.........Sportive..................161HR
    Furrag........................68kg..........7:00......Feb.........Newbie Cat 4...........92% MHR/SW gales
    Leejdavies..................84kg..........7:18......Feb.........Commuter/Sportive.....N/A
    Carbolite 103..............70kg..........7:45.......Feb......Occasional Sundays...fixie 42/16
    JZed..........................105kg.........7:48......Jan........Commuter....................170HR
    Airbusboy...................69kg.........8:30......Feb.........Sportive...............................
    TheStone....................89kg..........8:50......Jan........Commuter/Sportive......173HR

    Easy ride with Maryka and with the Sporting 14 TT tomorrow, but Box Hill done pretty much all out - I didn't completely push myself when it started to get really tough but there would've been no more than a couple more watts. Conditions were pretty neutral and I'm not unhappy with the time, but a year ago I had 438 watts for 5 minutes so 402 is quite a come down in shape.

    I can only go up again though.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • marykamaryka Posts: 748
    Name..........................Weight.......Time.....Month.....TOR........................Watts/WattsKg/AvHR
    JibberJim....................77kg..........6:13......Feb.........Club run hero...........402W/167HR
    TarmacExpert............70kg...........6:27......Feb........TTer.........................367W/175HR
    Red GT......................74kg...........6:33......Feb.........Sportive..................161HR
    Furrag........................68kg..........7:00......Feb.........Newbie Cat 4...........92% MHR/SW gales
    Leejdavies..................84kg..........7:18......Feb.........Commuter/Sportive.....N/A
    Carbolite 103..............70kg..........7:45.......Feb......Occasional Sundays...fixie 42/16
    maryka.....................61.5kg.........7:46.......Feb.......cat 1w + baby on the way.....248w
    JZed..........................105kg.........7:48......Jan........Commuter....................170HR
    Airbusboy...................69kg.........8:30......Feb.........Sportive...............................
    TheStone....................89kg..........8:50......Jan........Commuter/Sportive......173HR

    Could be my last Boxhill challenge for a while so with the sunny weather and my legs feeling all right, I gave it a go. A good 90 secs and 50w off my best but hey, I'm carrying a passenger! Will be interesting to see what kind of numbers I can put out in 6 months time if I can manage to get out training after our lives change forever in June.
  • Name..........................Weight.......Time.....Month.....TOR........................Watts/WattsKg/AvHR
    JibberJim....................77kg..........6:13......Feb.........Club run hero...........402W/167HR
    Ed F .......................... 68kg..........6.25.....Feb.........commuter/ cat3 ....
    TarmacExpert............70kg...........6:27......Feb........TTer.........................367W/175HR
    Red GT......................74kg...........6:33......Feb.........Sportive..................161HR
    Furrag........................68kg..........7:00......Feb.........Newbie Cat 4...........92% MHR/SW gales
    Leejdavies..................84kg..........7:18......Feb.........Commuter/Sportive.....N/A
    Carbolite 103..............70kg..........7:45.......Feb......Occasional Sundays...fixie 42/16
    maryka.....................61.5kg.........7:46.......Feb.......cat 1w + baby on the way.....248w
    JZed..........................105kg.........7:48......Jan........Commuter....................170HR
    Airbusboy...................69kg.........8:30......Feb.........Sportive...............................
    TheStone....................89kg..........8:50......Jan........Commuter/Sportive......173HR

    A few seconds less than I managed last year, but couldn't resist the opportunity to post this time to get ahead of Tarmac Expert. Don't suppose it will last long :cry:
  • jibberjimjibberjim Posts: 2,810
    EdFrancis wrote:
    A few seconds less than I managed last year, but couldn't resist the opportunity to post this time to get ahead of Tarmac Expert. Don't suppose it will last long :cry:

    You should be aiming higher than that!
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • furragfurrag Posts: 481
    Name..........................Weight.......Time.....Month.....TOR........................Watts/WattsKg/AvHR
    JibberJim....................77kg..........6:13......Feb.........Club run hero...........402W/167HR
    Ed F .......................... 68kg..........6.25.....Feb.........commuter/ cat3 ....
    TarmacExpert............70kg...........6:27......Feb........TTer.........................367W/175HR
    Red GT......................74kg...........6:33......Feb.........Sportive..................161HR
    Furrag........................68kg..........6:50......Feb.........Newbie Cat 4...........91% MHR/NW wind
    Leejdavies..................84kg..........7:18......Feb.........Commuter/Sportive.....N/A
    Carbolite 103..............70kg..........7:45.......Feb......Occasional Sundays...fixie 42/16
    maryka.....................61.5kg.........7:46.......Feb.......cat 1w + baby on the way.....248w
    JZed..........................105kg.........7:48......Jan........Commuter....................170HR
    Airbusboy...................69kg.........8:30......Feb.........Sportive...............................
    TheStone....................89kg..........8:50......Jan........Commuter/Sportive......173HR

    10 seconds better than 2 weeks ago and 3 seconds off of my best. Hoping to get closer to 6:20 this year.
  • Name..........................Weight.......Time.....Month.....TOR........................Watts/WattsKg/AvHR
    JibberJim....................77kg..........6:13......Feb.........Club run hero...........402W/167HR
    Ed F .......................... 68kg..........6.25.....Feb.........commuter/ cat3 ....
    TarmacExpert............70kg...........6:27......Feb........TTer.........................367W/175HR
    Red GT......................74kg...........6:33......Feb.........Sportive..................161HR
    Furrag........................68kg..........6:50......Feb.........Newbie Cat 4...........91% MHR/NW wind
    Leejdavies..................84kg..........7:18......Feb.........Commuter/Sportive.....N/A
    thebongolian................80kg..........7:29......Feb........Commuter....................174 HR
    Carbolite 103..............70kg..........7:45.......Feb......Occasional Sundays...fixie 42/16
    maryka.....................61.5kg.........7:46.......Feb.......cat 1w + baby on the way.....248w
    JZed..........................105kg.........7:48......Jan........Commuter....................170HR
    Airbusboy...................69kg.........8:30......Feb.........Sportive...............................
    TheStone....................89kg..........8:50......Jan........Commuter/Sportive......173HR

    Second proper attempt of the year in miserable conditions except the wind was in the right direction. 20s down on last year's best but that was in August and I've started riding much sooner this year so hopefully this will be the season I go under 7 minutes
  • Im Bald OkIm Bald Ok Posts: 146
    Name..........................Weight.......Time.....Month.....TOR........................Watts/WattsKg/AvHR
    JibberJim....................77kg..........6:13......Feb.........Club run hero...........402W/167HR
    Ed F .......................... 68kg..........6.25.....Feb.........commuter/ cat3 ....
    TarmacExpert............70kg...........6:27......Feb........TTer.........................367W/175HR
    Red GT......................74kg...........6:33......Feb.........Sportive..................161HR
    Furrag........................68kg..........6:50......Feb.........Newbie Cat 4...........91% MHR/NW wind
    Leejdavies..................84kg..........7:18......Feb.........Commuter/Sportive.....N/A
    thebongolian................80kg..........7:29......Feb........Commuter....................174 HR
    Carbolite 103..............70kg..........7:45.......Feb......Occasional Sundays...fixie 42/16
    maryka.....................61.5kg.........7:46.......Feb.......cat 1w + baby on the way.....248w
    JZed..........................105kg.........7:48......Jan........Commuter....................170HR
    Airbusboy...................69kg.........8:30......Feb.........Sportive...............................
    TheStone....................89kg..........8:50......Jan........Commuter/Sportive......173HR
    Im Bald Ok..................71Kg.........8.56......March.....Fun?.............................181HR

    Well...at least i now have a time to beat. Slightly disheartening propping up the bottom of the pile but i hope to climb my way up slowly. Don't know if cutting my time down to 7.30 is possible but it's what i'm aiming for by the end of the year.
  • CasbarCasbar Posts: 168
    How much time is the deteriorated road surface costing us this year ?

    Im currently quite a bit slower than my best time of 6:50 last year. Some is due to my current level of fitness, but I recon that I'm loosing quite a bit of time because the surface is so [email protected]@!! this year

    Any thought anyone ?

    Cant wait or them to resurface it for 2012
    exercise.png
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