Headset wont align with new forks. HELP

mike86
mike86 Posts: 34
edited January 2011 in MTB workshop & tech
So ive been trying for ages now and have tried everything i can find on the net but i cant get the headset to "seal/compress" as it was before i removed the old forks.
Anyone come across this before?
Do i need to change the headset or am i doing something wrong?

The thinner rings that sit above on the top and below on the bottom arent tight neither is the inner wedge spacer bit.

the bike is a 2010 Specialized Hardrock Disc
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Comments

  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    you have remove the crown race from the old forks and fitted it to the new forks?

    if yes pics.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • mike86
    mike86 Posts: 34
    yer have done that

    Cant get pics till tomorrow, but will get some good close up shots (not blurry ones lol)

    I really want to get this sorted because im looking forward to a trip to bedgebury forest :cry:
  • *AJ*
    *AJ* Posts: 1,080
    Bearings in upside down??
  • mike86
    mike86 Posts: 34
    SO heres some pics, not great ones as promised as i cant find the battery for my camera

    So here the top of the headset and the plastic grey wedge showing...
    IMG00207-20110115-1321.jpg

    Then the gap under the top ring.....
    IMG00208-20110115-1322.jpg

    And then the bottom....
    IMG00209-20110115-1322.jpg

    Ive not touched the head set bit on the frame, on the fork parts.

    What am i doing wrong.
    The bbs are the correct way, i couldnt get anything to fit when i flipped them over.
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    wedge in before the top cover.

    what is the headset?
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • mike86
    mike86 Posts: 34
    no idea what the headset is, dosent have anything on it so assuming its only a cheapy one.

    Ill try again with the top cover on last....
  • Dirtydog11
    Dirtydog11 Posts: 1,621
    So there's definitely no ring (crown race) on the bottom of your old fork steerer.

    How did you remove it?
    Kinesis Maxlight XC

    Orange 5 AM Custom
  • mike86
    mike86 Posts: 34
    Tried with the top cover but it needs to go on after the bearings, wont fit on overwise.

    Def took of the crown race, carefully and slower did it wat a slotted screwdriver.

    should i get a new head set fitted??
    the steerer tubes are the both the same size just made of different materials, i cant work it out :?
  • mike86
    mike86 Posts: 34
    heres some better pics....
    P1070914.jpg

    and her ive lifted the top cover on one side
    P1070913.jpg
  • Dirtydog11
    Dirtydog11 Posts: 1,621
    mike86 wrote:
    Def took of the crown race, carefully and slower did it wat a slotted screwdriver.

    Just double checking, so not that then. :?
    Kinesis Maxlight XC

    Orange 5 AM Custom
  • mike86
    mike86 Posts: 34
    i think its the coned bits that press on the bearing when the bearings are in the cups that wont fit properly
  • Dirtydog11
    Dirtydog11 Posts: 1,621
    Are the steerer tubes exactly the same length if not you may need another spacer either above or below the stem.

    If you remove the stem top cap there should be a 2-3mm gap between the top spacer and the top of the steerer to allow for headset adjustment (compression).
    Kinesis Maxlight XC

    Orange 5 AM Custom
  • mike86
    mike86 Posts: 34
    the tubes are both equal, i have the gap below the stem, ive tighend the top bolt pretty tight too and this will take the knocking and wobble out but will not close these gaps i have.

    is the bike still rideable? i dont wanna hit a bump and the whole thing start wobbling about or cause damage to the bike
  • Dirtydog11
    Dirtydog11 Posts: 1,621
    It doesn't sound right as you shouldn't have to do the top cap up tight its just a preload, if in doubt get your local bike shop to give it the once over.
    Kinesis Maxlight XC

    Orange 5 AM Custom
  • mike86
    mike86 Posts: 34
    If it comes to it and i do need to get my self a nice new metalic red head set :wink: , how easy is it to remove the old one and fit the new one?
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    remove top cap and have a look. is there a gap.

    fork11.jpg
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • mike86
    mike86 Posts: 34
    yep i have that gap.
    This is really bugging me, might have to take it to a bike shop
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    back to the bearings being the right way up.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • TuckerUK
    TuckerUK Posts: 369
    Are they cartridge bearings or just ball bearings in a cage?

    If they are just ball bearings in a cage you may have them both in the wrong way. Easy mistake to make, it's not intuitive, but if you check you'll see the balls themselves only contact both races with the cage one way up.

    Try this article for pics and instructions:

    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/w ... ings-18623
    "Coming through..."
  • mike86
    mike86 Posts: 34
    just had another go. they are bearings in a cage.

    Just followed the link an thats the way i have got them.
    Are cartridge bearings better that the cages?
  • captainfly
    captainfly Posts: 1,001
    Okay so with no stem or bars fitted can you get the crown race and lower bearing to line up/sit properly? If yes then install the upper bearings then (if they are like the richey comp headset I used to have) the upper seal(rubber) then race (soid metal ring), then wedge (split plaxtic ring) and finaly the dust cover/spacer. I think it is probably just the order/way the headset is assembled.
    -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
    Mongoose Teocali
    Giant STP0

    Why are MTB economics; spend twice as much as you intended, but only half as much as you wish you could afford? :roll:
  • *AJ*
    *AJ* Posts: 1,080
    *AJ* wrote:
    Bearings in upside down??

    Have you deffo checked this???.... If I had a quid for the amount of times I'd seen this simple mistake....lol!
  • mike86
    mike86 Posts: 34
    Okay so with no stem or bars fitted can you get the crown race and lower bearing to line up/sit properly? If yes then install the upper bearings then (if they are like the richey comp headset I used to have) the upper seal(rubber) then race (soid metal ring), then wedge (split plaxtic ring) and finaly the dust cover/spacer. I think it is probably just the order/way the headset is assembled.

    Sounds like the one i have.
    As you said with the crown race an lower bearing to line up, i can line them up but will not sit properly flush/ go all the way in.
    Why do you think this is?
    Would replacing the bearing cages fix this? Do they mis shape in any way?
  • stu8975
    stu8975 Posts: 1,334
    Can you take a few more pics (disassembled)...crown race on forks....bearings sittings in cups...order in which you fitted the parts?

    obvious q, are you tightening it all up in the correct order..top cap then stem bolts (its not uncommon for people to tighten the stem then try to do the top cap :wink: ).
    ANTHEM X
    Youth
  • mike86
    mike86 Posts: 34
    ok will get some pics today.
    I tighten the stem bolts last, and the top cap is 1st.

    Will post the pics later, need to do the food shopping 1st :roll:
  • mike86
    mike86 Posts: 34
    just uploading some new pics.
    Ive tried and tried again, how hard would it be to fit a new headset? bike shop is busy thill thurs :o, im getting bored of this now. if no one else knows then i might ust get a new one?
  • mike86
    mike86 Posts: 34
    so heres what i have........
    P1070915.jpg

    P1070920.jpg
    1 one way the other upside down

    P1070916.jpg

    P1070922.jpg
  • stu8975
    stu8975 Posts: 1,334
    Ok, now which order did you have them installed? same as my pic?
    Were the bearings facing the same way as in you pic as you look at them? if so they are upside down from what they should be sitting in the cups (just in case ) :wink:

    P1070915.jpg
    ANTHEM X
    Youth
  • mike86
    mike86 Posts: 34
    yer thats exactly how ive been doing it. i have up and down movement with both number 1 and 4 by 1mm or 2, and the wedge number 6 dosent look to be all the way in and the the bearings the balls are facing the frame and the flat edges to the wheel and stem.
    Is this how it should be? the gaps are what are worrying me because of water and dirt getting in.
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    mike86 wrote:
    yer thats exactly how ive been doing it. i have up and down movement with both number 1 and 4 by 1mm or 2, and the wedge number 6 dosent look to be all the way in and the the bearings the balls are facing the frame and the flat edges to the wheel and stem.
    Is this how it should be? the gaps are what are worrying me because of water and dirt getting in.

    but there is no play in the headset?
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown

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