is a hardtail capable

sparky803

im pretty new to riding and would like to know what a hardtail is actually capable of. all the mags i read to review trails nearly always seem to both recomend and feature fsussers.does this mean hardtails are not suitable for most red trails or worse.

cooldad

Pretty much anything. Depending on the bike (and rider).

rockmonkeysc

Hardtails can do anything a full sus can do. Even a cheap hardtail can do red/black trails.

aidso

I find/found starting on a hardtail makes you a better rider at the technical stuff as due to not having a rear shock you are forced to be smoother through rocky sections and how to carry your speed out of a tricky situation. A full susser can make you "lazy" as you'll just rattle over an obstacle knowing that the slightest miscalculation will be soaked up by the suspension .

Northwind

sparky803 wrote:

does this mean hardtails are not suitable for most red trails or worse.

Oh hell no! It does depend on the hardtail but an allroundy hardtail like a 456 or similiar is more capable than an XC full suss, when things get steep and rough. Geometry and componentry is far more important than whether the back end is bouncy or not IMO- I'd take my Mmmbop down the world cup DH route at fort william or any of the innerleithen DH runs, but I'd think twice before doing it on an Anthem X. (I took my Soul down part of it in fact, with its 1600 gram wheels, 2.1 tyres and skinny forks)

And of course depends on the rider too but not as much as you might think, again IMO. Full suss can make some things a bit easier but by and large if you wouldn't attempt it on a hardtail you wouldn't do it on a full suss, big drops and jumps excepted. And sometimes very hard or very rough stuff but you won't find that on a red or black.

But are full sussers better for it? Well maybe. Definately make it easier on the really tough stuff but that's not red or even black routes. "They" say the nevis red is the hardest red route in the country and laggan's black is the hardest black, both of those could be done on any decent hardtail (I've used both my old Soul and my 6 inch travel full suss Hemlock at Nevis red and neither made the trail better, just different)

But often a full suss will be faster, if that's important to you.

.blitz

Some people will say the best place for a HT is in the canal but it's not what you ride it's how you ride it.

My BIL rides his retro 90s-throwback rigid Marin around Cannock and does it very respectably. OK his hands go white with pink blotches from the vibration and he suffers from tunnel vision on the descents but he gets round. Slower than some, faster than others but he does it.

Mental Mickey

The question has already been answered but here's a visual version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv7TyakE8qw

Apologies in advance for the awful teen angst music.

t0pc4t

hardtails definitely cannot fly nor can they shoot lasers

ilovedirt

I've been riding my hardtail round red/black routes and down some of the easier downhill courses in the area for the last four months. There's very little you can't do on a hardtail, full sus just makes it easier.

Thewaylander

Meh what ever you can afford.

The biggest difference for me on my full bounce is the ability to ride alot of miles with minimal physical discomfort, I find 40k on a fullbouncei can ride the next day no effect, with a hardtail if ridden as hard i tend to feel a bit mroe battered or sore. But otherwise you can attack anything on anything really.

largephil

I agree. I had a 4 day riding weekend on the Bop and, fun though it was, it took its toll. Getting back on the 140mm full sus was way more comfy. I still like both, but for any long rides or weekenders, I'll be on the full sus from now on.

lm_trek

Sold my full bouncer, can't beat a steel long travel hardtail.

Thewaylander

largephil wrote:

I agree. I had a 4 day riding weekend on the Bop and, fun though it was, it took its toll. Getting back on the 140mm full sus was way more comfy. I still like both, but for any long rides or weekenders, I'll be on the full sus from now on.

Specially since i hit 30 that comfort factor really is a win now.

ilovedirt

Aye, fully is more comfy, I can't afford one right now though, and all the riding i do on a hardtail will only make me a better rider in the long run so i can really nail the trails when i can finally afford a fully again! Bring it on!

largephil

Thewaylander wrote:

Specially since i hit 30 that comfort factor really is a win now.

Were gettin old mate!!! Never noticed those aches and pains in my youth!

Thewaylander

largephil wrote:

Thewaylander wrote:

Specially since i hit 30 that comfort factor really is a win now.

Were gettin old mate!!! Never noticed those aches and pains in my youth!

Ain't that the truth.. I used to bounce now i just crunch... loudly

joshtp

Hardtails are very,very capable.

I cant think of anything I'd not do on a HT that I'd do on a FS....

In general at least, I'm not talking about MY against any FS... But the RIGHT HT, well....


(this may include some extreme FR and DH stuff... although I wouldn't be riding that at all, so it still applies)

dan shard

The main selling point for a full bouncer is that when you're traveling fast over rocky surfaces, it keeps the back wheel on the floor instead of bouncing hence improving grip. If you want to know what HT are capable of, just watch a Danny McCaskil (Spelling?)vid on youtube. for general use it will speed the average rider up and make it alot more positive feeling (In many cases improve the experience) Id also agree with the need to 'serve your time' on a hard tail to make sure you learn the skills that arent as important on a FS.

Northwind

dan shard wrote:

If you want to know what HT are capable of, just watch a Danny McCaskil (Spelling?)vid on youtube.

You may end up finding one of him riding an Orange Five with 36s though

blister pus

t0pc4t wrote:

hardtails definitely cannot fly nor can they shoot lasers

pah. mine can

Thewaylander

And Danny is a bad example its hard to generate that kinda lift with bounce, and you couldn't actually ride his bike down a trail very quick trust me lol.

tlw1

lm_trek wrote:

Sold my full bouncer, can't beat a steel long travel hardtail.

+1

jay12

i have done rough dh runs and road gaps on my bike and still going strong, so yes a hardtail is cable of what a full suss would be. but tbh on big jumps and rough stuff a full suss is probably better

Shaggy_Dog

t0pc4t wrote:

hardtails definitely cannot fly nor can they shoot lasers

Au contraire http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/war/we've-got-lasers-now,-says-navy-201007202923/

Back to topic, a hardtail can ride anywhere the rider has the skill and nerve to make it go. But an equivalent (IE - a Remedy vs On-one 456 or Anthem X vs XTC) full suss will almost always be faster

tri-sexual

rider ability is more important than the bike
seen people people with £5k+ push their bikes on technical sections whilst teenagers on cheap rubbish hardtails fly through them

ilovedirt

Oh yeah, that's often the case at trail centres, middle aged men who earn a good bit of money, spend it on a nice bike but aren't great riders. Fair play though, if i could spend a daft amount of money on a bike, i would, whether i was an amazing rider or not (i'm not).

jimexbox

tri-sexual wrote:

rider ability is more important than the bike

And fitness.

Steve_F

My FS - Iron Horse 6.4 - with 6/7 inches travel definitely makes rock garden/jumps/drops easier than my HT which is to be expected but my Saracen Zen home build with around 140mm travel up front is way better through technical stuff than my Boardman FS with 140 all round.

On the XC FS bikes I just don't feel comfortable with big impacts or hard hits as it doesn't feel as tough but the steel hardtail just takes any hits and gets on with it.

I've just realised, I don't have a short travel HT in my fleet so can't comment on that, now what to do about that.....

Northwind

ilovedirt wrote:

Oh yeah, that's often the case at trail centres, middle aged men who earn a good bit of money, spend it on a nice bike but aren't great riders.

I've been amusing myself lately outrunning people on big expensive bikes, on my rigid forked carrera But then I'm sure there are people who could take that bike and outrun me when I'm on my big expensive bike so I guess I shouldn't be too smug

MountainMonster

Hardtails are more than capable!

Who cares about outrunning people. Only people who have "something to prove" worry about that. I just worry about having fun, no matter what pace that is at!

el loco pollo

Yeah they are fine for most stuff but will never be as capable as a decent FS when the trails are tough, which is why ~99% of all bikes at any DH track, the Mega, Mountain of Hell etc are FS.

I don't agree with the "learn on a HT" thing either, it's bike riding not formula 1 training, it's not like the learning curve is particularly steep.