are photos worth much?

bluechair84

I was emailed last nigth regarding some pictures I have up on the net - they have asked if they can use them in a publication in exchange for... a copy of the publication.

Are photos worth much in the published world or am I lucky if I get the last rolo for them? Has anyone had their photos published?

welshkev

it all depends, if you're photo is going to help their publication sell loads more copies then it's worth a lot, if it's just going to be suplementary, then it's not worth much.

i'm sure people on here will be able to tell you how much they're worth but that's my general understanding

bluechair84

I'd be happy with the complimentary copy to be honest, but the girlfriend is a working artist and thinks I should look to receive more than just 'credit' in the print.
The photos will illustrate a suggested ride in a new guide that is coming out, so will likely be small and insignificant in the grander scheme :oops:

Gazlar

A friend of mine takes pictures of trains as a hobby, which he regularly sends in to railway magazines. even for a full size picture he only gets 20 quid tops. If it's only going to be a small picture then I'd say a copy of the publication would be a fair payment.

nicklouse

Paging Mr Deere

sheepsteeth

send them a picture of your ball bag, might be worth a second copy perhaps?

Northwind

I got a full page pic in one of the motorbike mags, I just let them use it for free since I thought it was cool getting it printed. But perhaps I missed out on a fortune.

Mike Deere

While I can't answer the question of if that's what you can expect payment-wise for you, I can help you find the answers.

The unfortunate thing is that asking what a photo is worth in a publication is like asking how long a piece of string is.

The first questions you need to ask yourself when valuing a photo are what publication is it, what's their circulation like, how is it going to be used and how will this affect their sales? Like Kev said if it's a key feature that's gonna send copies flying off shelves then it'll be worth more (to both parties) than if it's for a small piece of news in a sidebar.

If it's a small specialist publication and you're happy with it then by all means having a physical copy for the portfolio is great for starting out, but if it's a large publication that are trying to fob you off while they'll be trying to pull in extra sales from it then you may need to negotiate. Hopefully that's not the case though!

Gazlar wrote:

A friend of mine takes pictures of trains as a hobby, which he regularly sends in to railway magazines. even for a full size picture he only gets 20 quid tops. If it's only going to be a small picture then I'd say a copy of the publication would be a fair payment.

Not Tim Easter per chance?

ollie_lucas1985

Where on the net do you have your pictures? I'd like to get mine up just to see whats about.

bluechair84

sheepsteeth wrote:

send them a picture of your ball bag, might be worth a second copy perhaps?

Nah, it would send women into a frenzy, copies would go flying off of the shelves, millions of copies would be sold and I'd expect hansome roylaties.

Mike Deere wrote:

If it's a small specialist publication and you're happy with it then by all means having a physical copy for the portfolio is great for starting out

A ride guide of 4-500 trails around England. They are probably aiming for high volume / low repeat consumers (no future editions). The picture will take up realtively little space as a percentage but might have quite a few sold.
I'll have a phonecall sometime so will find out more. But I'd be quite happy just to have my name and picture in print. Everyone on here however can see it for free

El Capitano

Hi Mike, long time no see, how's life?

Gazlar

Mike Deere wrote:

Gazlar wrote:

A friend of mine takes pictures of trains as a hobby, which he regularly sends in to railway magazines. even for a full size picture he only gets 20 quid tops. If it's only going to be a small picture then I'd say a copy of the publication would be a fair payment.

Not Tim Easter per chance?

nope a guy called Matt Wilson

Anonymous

First thing is stock photo market is down the drain and generally worthless for photographers.

Second thing is the reason for this is people give away their photos for free. It's killed the market.

STOP doing it!

I know it seems like a complement to see your photo in a publication, but please don't fall for this. There are a lot of companies out there making a lot of money out of free photos by asking people on Flickr and the like if they can use their photo "but we can't pay you anything, but you'll get a copy and a credit".

Nonsense. They can afford to pay. They're ripping photographers off.


Take a look at this Flickr group: http://www.flickr.com/groups/nomorefreephotos/

In particular the bits about how to find out what your photo is really worth.


Oh and don't fall for rubbish about them being a charity, educational institution, etc. First they are probably stretching the truth, and second these people have budgets for doing publications and promotions and would be paying for that stuff, so why should they get the photos for free when they always used to pay for them? !

It's the same with the press. They ask for people to give away their photos for free so they can publish them and yet if you want to get a photo from the local paper or put an advert in the paper you'd have to pay.

Best offer I've had was a "we can only offer £10" for what would have been a large poster sized print that would be framed and in a pub for months or years. Yes it's on display but strictly speaking a licence for that kind of use should run into the £100s or more. £10! Told them where to stick it.

Worst situation was I had the organisers of an airshow ask for some photos for a large run of leaflets, brochures and on their web site and they asked how much I wanted. I looked up the recommended prices and then asked for half that as I've never sold any photos. Never heard back and then found they'd stolen my photos anyway after I saw the leaflets in my local takeaway! (tip - don't upload big resolution photos to Flickr!!)

Chaz.Harding

Mate, I've had a few photo's published before (not wanting to sound big-headed or owt...!!!)

First one was a B&W photo, on the cover of a hardback book. The company wanted to give me about £100, BUT (and a BIG but...) they were over in India, and couldn't send a cheque. Wanted my bank details, so they could send the cash direct to bank.

It was for a book about the history of India, in particular something really specific. I don't have the book with me, so I can't tell you what it's called, or an ISBN.

Anyway, I told them to use it for free, send me a copy, and put my name in the 'rights' somewhere. Forgot all about it, proper convinced it was a scam.

Few months later, I got a package through the door, lo and behold, a book!! With my picture on!!!! Wasn't concerned about not asking for a fee - it's so much of a heavy read, I think they'll be lucky to sell a single copy!!!

I've also got an article with a bunch of photo's getting published in 'The Road' magazine, by the organisation MAG (motorbikers on here should know what this is ) Didn't ask for owt there, either.

I ain't a professional photographer, and it ain't my living. What do I care? It's some photo's I took, because I wanted to. I let people print them, because I wanted to.

If it was my business, it would be a LOT different. But as I said, it ain't, and I just don't care. It's cool to get stuff published - might be handy in a few years, if I DO decide to make it my profession....

alexj2233

RTW-Chaz wrote:

If it was my business, it would be a LOT different. But as I said, it ain't, and I just don't care. It's cool to get stuff published - might be handy in a few years, if I DO decide to make it my profession....

It think the point deadkenny was trying to make is that because so many people take good photos then give them away for free, it then removes the need for the people who publish said photos to pay for professionally taken photos. So if you DO decide to make it your profession you wont make any money because people like yourself give away all their photos.

BTW i'm not trying to argue either way just making the point.

whyamihere

alexj2233 wrote:

RTW-Chaz wrote:

If it was my business, it would be a LOT different. But as I said, it ain't, and I just don't care. It's cool to get stuff published - might be handy in a few years, if I DO decide to make it my profession....

It think the point deadkenny was trying to make is that because so many people take good photos then give them away for free, it then removes the need for the people who publish said photos to pay for professionally taken photos. So if you DO decide to make it your profession you wont make any money because people like yourself give away all their photos.

BTW i'm not trying to argue either way just making the point.

As a contrary point, though, if an amateur with a DSLR can produce a photo which is 'good enough', what advantage does the professional bring?

Chaz.Harding

whyamihere wrote:

As a contrary point, though, if an amateur with a DSLR can produce a photo which is 'good enough', what advantage does the professional bring?

This.

Don't get me wrong, I have some 'nice' photo's, but some professional shot's are so good they make me want to eat my own poo.

Ok, maybe they don't, but holy crap, some of them are STUNNING. I mean, really really amazing.

And if you happen to be a pro photographer, who is struggling for work thanks to shit-bags like me, suck it up and go take wedding photo's for an income. Brides-and-Grooms-to-be love all that jazz, and pay a fortune for it.

So there is money out there. I don't care if you don't like taking wedding photo's - but if you want to keep your roof over your head, and food in your belly, get snapping them photos...

supersonic

As a contrary point, though, if an amateur with a DSLR can produce a photo which is 'good enough', what advantage does the professional bring?

Is a very good point. Maybe it is people like us on this forum taking trade away from qualified bike mechanics in shops

Anonymous

whyamihere wrote:

if an amateur with a DSLR can produce a photo which is 'good enough', what advantage does the professional bring?

Whilst amateurs are perfectly capable of getting some fantastic shots, either by accident or a genuine knack, a professional will be able to deliver higher quality shots almost every time.

Max Spielman used one of my shots to advertise their printing services in a shop window. It was only for use in one shop, not nationwide. In exchange, they gave me the massive canvas print I was buying for free. Not to be sneezed at when it's £75

bluechair84

Agree with all of the above though I'm not feeling particularly sympathetic for the pro photographer. If the public is begining to produce what he does then it's time to up-the-game (yes, pro-pics wipe the floor with anything I produce, but I've seen some very decent ama-pics on here).
I'd be happy to give away a photo for credit and a copy I think. The book will probably sell for £20+ in an area I'm interested in so - that's pretty much my fee sorted. And if it is killing the industry then I say, power to the people! It's a society that is developing and advancing by producing more skilled and artistic people.

bluechair84

supersonic wrote:

As a contrary point, though, if an amateur with a DSLR can produce a photo which is 'good enough', what advantage does the professional bring?

Is a very good point. Maybe it is people like us on this forum taking trade away from qualified bike mechanics in shops

Agreed - there is always going to be a need for them (photographers and tradesmen). The occupation won't die out but we would far rather have a public with a wider range of competancy.

Anonymous

alexj2233 wrote:

It think the point deadkenny was trying to make is that because so many people take good photos then give them away for free, it then removes the need for the people who publish said photos to pay for professionally taken photos. So if you DO decide to make it your profession you wont make any money because people like yourself give away all their photos.

That was my point really and just answering the question of how much a stock photo is worth. i.e. nothing for this reason.

I'm no professional either and haven't intended to make money out of it (mainly because the market is dead and only way now to make money is to be commissioned to do a shoot, do weddings, or work for the press).

In the past if a company saw even an amateur's photo and wanted to use it commercially they'd still have to pay money for it.

Face it, they're making big bucks out of free photos and no matter how much it makes you feel good, they're taking advantage of you.


As for the DIY bike mechanic argument. Well, those are worthwhile skills and there are always going to be people who won't DIY so it's far easier to make a little money by fixing up people's bikes or even setting up a bike shop or service business. I'd make more money doing that than trying to sell photos.

Anonymous

deadkenny wrote:

In the past if a company saw even an amateur's photo and wanted to use it commercially they'd still have to pay money for it.

Face it, they're making big bucks out of free photos and no matter how much it makes you feel good, they're taking advantage of you.

Well that's why it's a bad idea to let people use your photos for free.

tri-sexual

Mate, I've had a few photo's published before (not wanting to sound big-headed or owt...!!!)

First one was a B&W photo, on the cover of a hardback book. The company wanted to give me about £100, BUT (and a BIG but...) they were over in India, and couldn't send a cheque. Wanted my bank details, so they could send the cash direct to bank.

rtw-chaz
i too love your pictures, they are exceptional, i too would love to include them in my publication, i think i can make you a millionaire from the royalties alone.
because i am based in nigeria, there will be an admin fee of £1000 to pay before payment can be processed for you, please include tour bank details with your payment to ensure a smooth transaction

projectsome

If they really want the photo, they'll pay whatever you want, within reason....

Chaz.Harding

tri-sexual wrote:

i too love your pictures, they are exceptional, i too would love to include them in my publication, i think i can make you a millionaire from the royalties alone.
because i am based in nigeria, there will be an admin fee of £1000 to pay before payment can be processed for you, please include tour bank details with your payment to ensure a smooth transaction

WOWWW!!!

Thank's man!

I'll PM you my bank account details STRAIGHT AWAY!



Are you a Prince, by any chance...?

tri-sexual

RTW-Chaz wrote:

tri-sexual wrote:

i too love your pictures, they are exceptional, i too would love to include them in my publication, i think i can make you a millionaire from the royalties alone.
because i am based in nigeria, there will be an admin fee of £1000 to pay before payment can be processed for you, please include tour bank details with your payment to ensure a smooth transaction

WOWWW!!!

Thank's man!

I'll PM you my bank account details STRAIGHT AWAY!



Are you a Prince, by any chance...?

yes, its prince tri-sexual
you probably remember me, i contacted last week concerning your lottery win

popstar

I say peopel are stupit by giving their photos for free.

I don't think I would give away any photos for free for comercial use etc. And bargaining rumbles as of -we are charity etc, I have seen charity BS big time. Drinking Krug champagne and eating at Dorchester in London, paying huge wacks of cash for -promotional future sponsor BS. Please, give me a break.

Became so cynical, from those days once I've seen what's behind scenes ... I never ever give anything to charity. Popstar says, if you have some spare cash ... give it to your nun.

sheepsteeth

i'll give it to your nun in a minute

popstar

That nun will have you big time!

bluechair84

Had the phone call, it comes out mid-year with an rrp of around £20. I've just said they can use it if they send Sheeps a few limes and some string. You know, just passing on the good will to the forum.