Crit bike

cookiemonster

Im toying with the idea of getting a(nother) bike for crits, mainly as I don't want to smash up my good bike when the day comes and i come off, but also because id like to get a bit lower at the front and I'm as far as i can go on the cervelo without resorting to silly stems (and the position is perfect for everything apart from short races) So, got to be stiff as, ali for crash resilience (or more realistically easier identification of crash damage), cheap'ish, aero would be nice as would light, but neither are hugely important.

The cervelo s1 is the default choice - seems everyone is on one - quite expensive for an ali frame with odd handling apparently. Plus sides are that everyone's on one for a reason, very stiff, very aero.

The two other choices are the canyon ultimate al and the Ridley phaeton r - neither of which i can find any reviews of. Very tempted by the canyon though for some reason.

Any views or opinions?

Jon

amaferanga

What makes you think lightweight alu frames are any more crash resilient than carbon or that crash damage on a carbon frame is difficult to identify?

robz400

+1

I was told by a cycling pro who owns my gym that the cheaper carbon frames are more crash resistant ali as the ali ones are now so thin they dent very easily....

wasabi_m

Caad10?

amaferanga

wasabi_m wrote:

Caad10?

Ask freehub about the crash resilience of his CAAD9....

cookiemonster

amaferanga wrote:

What makes you think lightweight alu frames are any more crash resilient than carbon or that crash damage on a carbon frame is difficult to identify?

Hi - not really "resilience", but I do think its easier to identify damage. With carbon there is more of a possiblity of structural damage beneath an intact surface layer, with aluminium damage is more likely to be visible on the surface. If I crashed with my carbon handlebars for example, Id have a concern that id damaged the bars in someway even if there was no obvious surface breakage - whereas with aluminium, if there was nothing on the surface id be more comfortable that the bars were still fine. Fair enough, this isnt clear cut - you can get stress fractures in ali (but even then, they're often visible), more a question of degree.

jon

warrior4life

I love my s1 and it doesn't handle strange at all, I've never heard that about them before.
I think if you could get an S1 frame or bike from ebay you could probably use it for a year and get your money back if you sell it.
Lifetime guarantee on the frame as well, do many other bikes have this?

Isnt the caad9 a little more aero than the caad10 which is more a relaxed sportive ride?

caad 9's do look and sound like a great bike, I love the liquigas version.

Finbar Saunders

How important is "very aero" for a crit bike? Do you mean the frame is aero or that you can get into a more aerodynamic position? Not being argumentative, I was just wondering.

warrior4life

Caad 9 has a lower front end i think so you get more aero, Not sure how much it really matters though.
Not really sure how much difference the bike makes at all once you get something that's stiff, not to heavy and mechanically sound.

rozzer32

I'd take a look at canyon bikes. Could get an Ultimate AL frameset for about £650.

pmac1893

Cervelo's are sketchy. Get them up to high speeds and there is a definite chance of speed wobbles. the head angle is too steep. i'd stick with a caad 10, rival, whatever wheels make you happy, aluminum bar, stem and VOILA!

cookiemonster

Pmac1893

In the mid sizes (56cm) the cervelo s1, canyon ultimate al and both the caad9 and 10 all have the same head angle of 73

Im not clear on the handling thing - a couple of folk that raced them mentioned it as something that was "different" but you get used to it - havent ridden one, so cant comment from experience. Looking at the geometries, the cervelo has short chain stays in comparison, and (i think) the bb further back, which i guess could make a difference in feel - it would also be why the S1 works as a TT bike

mmm

S1 or Ultimate Al

(something about the caad's leaves me cold - not rational, sorry)

No one knows anything about the RIdley Phaeton R? £900 so between the S1 and canyon on price, and also on geometry. Its the same ballpark weight, but its an aero frame unlike the canyon. And no one else has one by the looks of it

rozzer32

When your riding in the bunch an aero frame won't make any difference.

And would they make a difference when your sprinting for the win? I doubt it. The Scott Addict isn't aero and how many races did Cav win on it?

jibberjim

rozzer32 wrote:

When your riding in the bunch an aero frame won't make any difference.

And would they make a difference when your sprinting for the win? I doubt it. The Scott Addict isn't aero and how many races did Cav win on it?

But what if you like to be off the front either solo or in a group? Not everyone wants to sprint for the win.

I've been often surprised at the power break companions waste in their positions or kit choice.

rozzer32

jibberjim wrote:

rozzer32 wrote:

When your riding in the bunch an aero frame won't make any difference.

And would they make a difference when your sprinting for the win? I doubt it. The Scott Addict isn't aero and how many races did Cav win on it?

But what if you like to be off the front either solo or in a group? Not everyone wants to sprint for the win.

I've been often surprised at the power break companions waste in their positions or kit choice.

How many Crits have you seen end with a solo person off the front??

The smallest group I have seen contest the sprint was around 10. If the OP was looking to do road races as well then I can see the benefit of an aero frame, but not for Crits. But that's just what I think

Your position on the bike will make the biggest difference as with all bikes.

Monty Dog

+1 on aero being unimportant for crits - in fact for road racing too it's pretty irrelevant - just a marketing gimmick IMO. My choice would be based solely on handling and durability. For handling I'd want something that you could 'rail' corners hard - probably quite a stiff frame and a back end to match because you're going to be spending time out the saddle getting the power down. Durability for the fact that expect the unexpected - it won't break your heart if it gets chucked down the road and won't break the bank if you need to replace it. Finally, warranties are irrelevant too - they don't cover crash damage.

cookiemonster

Dont disagree - but all other things being equal an aero frame is better than a non-aero frame, and a light frame is better than a heavy frame. I wouldnt want a shi**y frame just because its aero

The S1 and Phaeton R are perhaps as good as the non-aero frames like the caad and the canyon in every respect, but are also aero.

And I won my last race with a 35 minute solo breakaway (on a non-aero bike)

jon