Ex MP sent to prison

Frank the tank

For fiddling expences.

No doubt got what he deserved but I feel he's been made a bit of a scapegoat. All MP's who paid back monies should have been tried as to me at least that's almost as good as an admission of wrong doing.

If I had claimed cash I was genuinely entitled to I'm blown if I would give it back. If however I'd made a dodgy claim well, You know what I'm saying.

Bobbinogs

Frank, I reckon he got all what he deserved. No nonsense about "admin errors" and all that tosh. The bloke claimed rent for a house he owned and he used a fabricated tenancy agreement to claim...he also claimed for IT work from a bloke who he had never met using an invoice that was also fabricated. Bang to rights, and i think bloody fantastic. Cheating git.

The rest should also be taken to task but claiming what you entitled to (but morally wrong) is not a crime. I notice most of them all got voted back in. Grr, don't get me started. :evil:

Frank the tank

Go on Bobbinogs, get started.

Anonymous

And now a lot of the poor MP's are complaining about the expense system now being too harsh.
Let them try a week on patrol in Sangin or Helmand with an Infantry unit on crap pay and judge what is harsh, the Basterds.

mrushton

He was our local MP and if he had come clean he might have avoided jail, but he had 3 counts against him. He claimed for some IT stuff that never happened, he claimed the rent on a flat that he actually owned and had some scam going with a house that had belonged to his mother who had gone into a home. He then tried to avoid prosecution by claiming Parliamentary privilege. Other MPs just bit the bullet and paid up but the majority were taking advantageof a system that allowed itself to be taken advantage of. Anyway imo Mr.Chaytor commited a number of frauds and deserved his sentence. .

tebbit

The man did deserve to go to prison, it was a calculated fraud, however if you consider the corruption scandal in the UK about £1M it is very small money compared to other countries, working in Ukraine you come to realise how minor the sums are. $224M from the UN to help counter swine flu mainly went missing, and the banks bail out in the US billions went to the banks, however the main banker went missing, with about $5BN. Hopefully the prison sentencing will help prevent this happening again.

I was watching an old episode of Yes Minister while I have been back and the description of a back bench MP's job as being "a subsidised ego trip" wasn't far wide of the mark.

spen666

Frank the tank wrote:

For fiddling expences.

No doubt got what he deserved but I feel he's been made a bit of a scapegoat. All MP's who paid back monies should have been tried as to me at least that's almost as good as an admission of wrong doing.

If I had claimed cash I was genuinely entitled to I'm blown if I would give it back. If however I'd made a dodgy claim well, You know what I'm saying.

It is a huge difference between making a claim that is later deemed and invalid and making one dishonestly

For example at work, I recently made a claim for travel expenses.

I underclaimed by mistake as I thought the tube fare was less than it was. It was an honest mistake as I had used my pay as you go oystercard, so had no receipts. I could as easily have made an overclaim in same way. I would have been liable to repay any overclaimed amount, but there was no criminal offence as there was no dishonesty.

In the case of the MP's the problem in most cases is proving dishonesty. The whole system was rotten and most MPs probably did not think they were acting dishonestly

Frank the tank

No doubt all MPs made perfectly legit claims for all manner of things, but a whole load of claims were made which were clearly not to aid them in doing their task as an MP. Duck houses,moat cleaning and tv porn for example and there is no way they could have been claimd for in error.

TuckerUK

We need to see the whole picture. If the culture was one of 'claim it if you can', as I'm convinced it was, it seems a little unfair to come down on those who didn't cover their tracks well enough.

By all means start a new system with tighter regulation, but don't make scapegoats of the few that were doing what everyone else was, just more of it.

niblue

TuckerUK wrote:

We need to see the whole picture. If the culture was one of 'claim it if you can', as I'm convinced it was, it seems a little unfair to come down on those who didn't cover their tracks well enough.

By all means start a new system with tighter regulation, but don't make scapegoats of the few that were doing what everyone else was, just more of it.

This chap forged documents so he could make fraudulent claims - he's no scapegoat, he's a crook.

Anonymous

TuckerUK wrote:

We need to see the whole picture. If the culture was one of 'claim it if you can', as I'm convinced it was, it seems a little unfair to come down on those who didn't cover their tracks well enough.

By all means start a new system with tighter regulation, but don't make scapegoats of the few that were doing what everyone else was, just more of it.

But he and the rest still knew it was wrong and he forged documents to get more money. He deserved what he got, and sort of agreeing with you, others should follow him to the nick.

Pross

It was out-and-out fraud, the fact that he was an MP was irrelevant you would expect anyone to get treated the same for fraud.

rick_chasey

White collar criminals operate within the grey between legal and illegal and get away with an awful lot.

It's much easier to spot a mugging than it is fraud, but it doesn't make it any worse.

The difference with this guy vs other MPs is that he was actually fraudulent, rather than claiming for things you wouldn't necessarily think were covered by expenes - such as duck houses - but claiming them legitimately.

.

neiltb

I still wonder why they don't build a big billet near the house of commons and have the MP's from out of town kip there when they are doing their valuable work, 3 or 4 to a room would work. No spurious claims for housing, they could run a bus and save on the cab fares too.

rick_chasey

neiltb wrote:

I still wonder why they don't build a big billet near the house of commons and have the MP's from out of town kip there when they are doing their valuable work, 3 or 4 to a room would work. No spurious claims for housing, they could run a bus and save on the cab fares too.

Because if you want the best talent in the country running it, and lets face it, we probably do, making the job of an MP more sh!t than it already is by treating them like school children probably won't help that particular goal.

neiltb

most of them will be used to it, it'll remind them of boarding school.
and if theat's the best talent out there, I'm glad I got out!

rick_chasey

Never said they were the best. I'm saying that's what we want to aspire to.

Pross

neiltb wrote:

I still wonder why they don't build a big billet near the house of commons and have the MP's from out of town kip there when they are doing their valuable work, 3 or 4 to a room would work. No spurious claims for housing, they could run a bus and save on the cab fares too.

Always thought the same although maybe not quite so austere. I would have some form of appartment block where they have a bedroom, bathroom, kitchen and living / office area. Everyone gets the same. Be one heck of a terrorist target though although easier to protect them when they are all in the same place.

Bobbinogs

Be one heck of a terrorist target though although easier to protect them when they are all in the same place.

But why would we want to protect them? Surely we should publish the address, maps and online streaming video and just let natural justice sort it out.

markos1963

Pross wrote:

neiltb wrote:

I still wonder why they don't build a big billet near the house of commons and have the MP's from out of town kip there when they are doing their valuable work, 3 or 4 to a room would work. No spurious claims for housing, they could run a bus and save on the cab fares too.

Always thought the same although maybe not quite so austere. I would have some form of appartment block where they have a bedroom, bathroom, kitchen and living / office area. Everyone gets the same. Be one heck of a terrorist target though although easier to protect them when they are all in the same place.

Have to agree.
I used to work for a retail company who had a lot of shops in London. There was always the need for managers to come in and run them on a temporary basis. The hotel and food costs were going through the roof so the company bought a couple of flats in London. The effect was amazing, the expenses costs fell drematically and the managers were happier because they had somewhere permanant to stay. Perhaps this is the way to go, remove the temptation from the vunerable

spen666

Frank the tank wrote:

No doubt all MPs made perfectly legit claims for all manner of things, but a whole load of claims were made which were clearly not to aid them in doing their task as an MP. Duck houses,moat cleaning and tv porn for example and there is no way they could have been claimd for in error.

The rules for what MPs can claim are very different from what you and I can claim. The fact they can claim food and groceries is an example of this

Jez mon

Rick Chasey wrote:

neiltb wrote:

I still wonder why they don't build a big billet near the house of commons and have the MP's from out of town kip there when they are doing their valuable work, 3 or 4 to a room would work. No spurious claims for housing, they could run a bus and save on the cab fares too.

Because if you want the best talent in the country running it, and lets face it, we probably do, making the job of an MP more sh!t than it already is by treating them like school children probably won't help that particular goal.

Exactly.

I've always felt that if there is one set of people who should be well paid, it's MPs. I mean, whatever you think of politics, they are the ones running the country, it's pretty much the most important job there is. Yet some seem to think they should have to live on gruel and suffer daily floggings...

Bobbinogs

...and you don't think earning £65k a year as a basic (before all the gravy train extras) for working about 20 hours a week, 30 weeks a year for 10 years before retiring on a pension that would make your eyes water is a fair reward for sitting in a chamber and acting like a boorish public schoolboy?

650 leeches, surrounded by an army of thousands more...and then there are the euro lot who do less, get more freebies and fantastic overseas holidays to boot.

I am a big fan of the poltiical system, as you can tell.

mrushton

The interesting thing is that you don't actually need any qualifications to be an MP. So we whinge about them but 'all' we have to do is get elected. You don't need a degree or a Doctorate or even O-levels so maybe we should all be involved in getting elected.

Bobbinogs

"MPs' expenses: Ex-Labour MP Eric Illsley admits fraud"

Oh dear. That will be another one who strenuously denied all charges and aimed to "robustly defend his innocence"...only to come clean once nailed to the wall.