661 Kyle Strait Knee 2010 vs 2011

ADL

Are there any differences apart from the colour scheme? For some reason, they've removed "slim" from the 2011 version name, or is it just a re-branding sort of thing?

2010
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... delID=9590

2011
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=57614

Tom Barton

Quite a few changes with the new pad. I've just had a new pair of 2011 ones. Had a 2009 pair which looking at the pics seemed very similar to the 2010 pair.

Rearragned the padding in the new pad a bit. New oute mesh material too - seems less... er.. holey - I guess, which is good, my old ones were developing stress tears at the sides with the holey fabric.

Coloured rubber tabs and one colour scheme has black 661 decals if you fancy something some sutble I guess is their thinking - all aesthetic.

The fit on the new ones for me at least is excellent - better than my old ones by far, by my old ones were very worn and its hard to remember what they were like new. But as with all good things, dont realise their on - which means they are doing well in my book!

For the sake of 13 quid - I'd personally go for the newer ones.

ADL

Thanks a lot for the review.
Are the new ones any bulkier than the old model?

Tom Barton

Bout the same I'd say - but a better fit on the new :-)

Jedi

look at the scott knee pads. same as straits but hard cap!! = winner!

peter413

Jedi wrote:

look at the scott knee pads. same as straits but hard cap!! = winner!

What difference does a hard cap make exactly?

Jedi

wear a strait on one leg and a scott on the other then hit your knee with a hammer. you will feel the difference

peter413

Sounds like BS to me I'm afraid, having crashed with both hard shell pads and Straits, I would pick the straits every time, more comfortable and no less crash impact absorption, in fact, I believe there is slightly more since they absorb the impact instead of just being rigid

Jedi

its fact not bs!

the scotts are the same padding etc as straits . why would the hard shell be bs????

peter413

I'm not saying they aren't a hard shell, what I'm saying is that people saying hard shells give more protection than Straits is, IMHO, BS

Jedi

so having a soft cap is better than hard cap??? with everything else the same?

peter413

I wouldn't really call the Straits a soft cap, thats the veggies

Jedi

they are soft/pliable. try what i said and feel the difference.

peter413

I'm fine with crashing on rocks thanks

Jedi

so am i but if you cant see the benefit of a hard cap with exactly the same everything else then. we agree to disagree.

peter413

That we do

ricardo_smooth

arguement against science i see. If there is no difference in crash protection in a soft shell vs a hard shell then why are car bumpers made from plastic instead of soft material?

yes mtb and car crashes aren't in the same league (mostly) but of course hard shell protect better and especially against sharp objects. soft protection is usually more comfortable though i must agree, hence why its usually more comfortable

ADL

BTW, what is the "hard shell" they mention in 2011 Kyle Strait's description?
http://www.sixsixone.com/Catalog_661Bik ... e3910f321f

Actually, I just need some lightish armour for XC/trail riding (not racing), mainly to get confidence with my new SPD pedals

Jedi

its a pliable cap not hard cap!

Northwind

ricardo_smooth wrote:

arguement against science i see. If there is no difference in crash protection in a soft shell vs a hard shell then why are car bumpers made from plastic instead of soft material?

yes mtb and car crashes aren't in the same league (mostly) but of course hard shell protect better and especially against sharp objects. soft protection is usually more comfortable though i must agree, hence why its usually more comfortable

OK, it's not this simple. Look inside a car bumper, is it solid all the way through? And is the material of the bumper chosen purely for impact resolution? ABS plastic bumpers are mainly fitted for looks, and filled with foam to actually do the bumping. Rubber bumpers look rotten but they're better bumpers.

With bike armour, you've got 2 different jobs to do- one is to give structure and to prevent penetrating damage, and to dissipate impacts. The other is to absorb impacts. Hard shells are good at the former, soft at the latter, hard armour is useless at the latter wheras soft is still slightly effective at the former.

What's better, a cushion or a steel plate? Well a steel plate is great if someone stabs you but useless if you fall on it. So you decide, what sort of impact is this kit for? What will it usually earn its money doing.

Just think about helmets. What is it that protects you, is it the hard outer shell or is it the foam?

ricardo_smooth

yes i agree. hard shell outside, soft inside......like the pads in question. like a car bumper, hard shell outside, soft inside. like a helmet, hard shell outside....soft shell inside.


See the pattern coming though

Northwind

The hard shell on a car bumper is only there to look good like I say, a rubber bumper is more effective. With XC helmets, the shell's generally just keeping the foam core protected and together rather than providing protection in itself.

Kneepads generally take blunt impacts (ie your body landing on stuff) so though a hardshell's not a terrible idea, you've only got so much volume and mass to work with and you want all the absorption you can get. Something like a Fox Impact or the Kyle Straits is a good balance, since the dense foam gives decent edge protection too just by volume.

IMO of course but I've whacked these things off all manner of surfaces and objects now and they work Never had any situation where losing soft protection for hard on these would pay off.

ricardo_smooth

well i bought brand x knee shin combos and even though they are comfy ect i don't use them! will be trading in for some knee only ones soon i reckon. at the moment using my knee caps isn't going too well in the pain factor reigon! :P

Jedi

jesus,
kyle straits are comfy pads and work in all but hard impacts, the pliable shell doesn't dissipate as much impact as a hrad shell with the SAME soft padding behing the shell as the scott hard one does

Northwind

Jedi wrote:

kyle straits are comfy pads and work in all but hard impacts, the pliable shell doesn't dissipate as much impact as a hrad shell with the SAME soft padding behing the shell as the scott hard one does

If you have the same amount of armour but some of it's hard, then it'll absorb less impact than a purely soft pad.

Jedi

not with the same soft padding behind the shell as the pliable as the hard shell does

Northwind

But that's only possible with a physically larger pad (you need the same volume of foam, plus the hard shell on top, to ge tthe same absorption)

Nice example of this is the Knox motorbike stuff, the soft-only pad is about 2/3ds as thick as the hard-shelled pad, yet passes the CE impact tests by a higher margin. (Knox only make the hard version because americans think foam isn't proper armour.)

Tom Barton

Hmm - i'm no pro downhiller but I regulary ride like a tit and have had a couple of offs that would have no doubt broken or severely injured my knees saved by my Kyle straits - they offer a perfectly safe compromise between comfort and protection that will hopefully rarely tested to the limits by most riders

Jedi

no, the impact energy goes through the soft cap

Northwind

It does depend what you intend to crash into If I know there's northshore stuff or big jaggy rocks to harm myself with, I don't wear my kyle straits, not the best tool for the job.

But then, when the threat's high enough that I doubt the straits, I wouldn't wear hardshelled kneepads either, I get out the shinpads, which have a full hard outer and padded inner but are also miles bigger to fit all the stuff in. Horses for courses.

peter413

Since you've mentioned knee/shins, does anyone actually make one with a Strait style knee (with proper protection at the sides). Only I refuse most of the time to wear anything other than the Straits because I know someone that went into hospital because they were wearing their knee/shins instead of their Straits and sustained a bad side impact that they couldn't protect against but the Straits would have