How deep should I go?
term1te
Posts: 1,462
I’m just day dreaming really, but planning my targets for next year. One is to go for a PB on a very flat 180km sportive around Lake Geneva. I want to go under 4 hours 30, current PB 4:38, apart from making sure I was in a fast bunch from the start what sort of wheels would help give me the best time? I’m not after a particular model, but am just thinking how aero it makes sense to go. There is said to be only 200m of climbing over the whole course, but I’ve measured closer to 700, either way its flat, so weight shouldn’t be a big issue. Currently using some homemade wheels with 30 mm deep rims (Halo Mercury on Novatec hubs) I’m very pleased with these, but everything else being equal, would I see a significant benefit going to 50mm deep rims, or even deeper?
If nothing else, it gives me something to think about on the rollers.
Thanks
If nothing else, it gives me something to think about on the rollers.
Thanks
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Comments
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If your plan is to get into a group and stay there, it aint going to make that much difference.0
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+2
My top tip would be to find some bulky but fast riders to hang on to.0 -
Thanks for your thoughts.
It would be nice to sit behind the big fast guy the whole way around, but I'll have to do my bit at the front some of the time. The organisers let you off in groups of about 50 with police motorbikes leading us through junctions and red lights (makes you feel, if not look, like a pro). The bunch stickers together for a while but the last few years it ends up with a number of small groups 3-5 riders at the front with a large bunch of a couple of hundred sweeping everyone up mid-field. Last year I was in a group of 4 for the last 80 km, and was out front for at least my fair share of that. If I was doing a 20km TT I'd be thinking of more aero wheels, and with last year's average speed for the whole event at over 37kph, aero has got to offer some advantage?0 -
One good tactic in these sorts of events can be to find a reasonably large group that is keeping a good, steady, fast pace for most of the event just behind the front of the "race" and then to go with a small breakaway from that group in the last 10-20kms or so. That way you often end up passing many of the weaker riders who have just been hanging on to the back of the fastest group (often strung out in small groups of 2 or 3) and are completely spent by this stage. In the Tour de Helsinki this works particularly well as there are a number of paced groups led by experienced club riders aiming to finish in particular times. The fastest of these is 35kmh (it's actually faster than that most of the way as the first few kms through the city are controlled and kept at a low speed). This group is usually just behind the front of the "race", so all the way along is mopping up people who have been dropped off the back of the front group. This year I had planned to try hanging with the front group ahead of the paced groups, but due to bad planning (missed the front group going off after the controlled zone because I had to stop to pee.. :oops: ) ended up in the 35km group. However there was a breakaway on a hill 20km from the end, and going with that I think I ended up with as good a time as I would have got if I'd been trying to hold on to the front group all of the way.0
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Ultimately wheels will only make a big difference if you're bridging up from one group to the next. If you're riding in a group and struggling then just spend less time on the front and if you're finding it easy spend more time on the front or bridge up to a faster group, easy! In theory...
Having said that the answer to your question is the deeper the better on a flat course. I wouldn't ride over 60mm on a road bike personally (risk of flaky handling in a bunch) and tend to think that a good 45-50mm wheelset is the best option if you have the money to burn.0 -
schweiz wrote:Term1te,
sorry to hijack but do you have a linky for that sportive? It could be something to add to the list of things to do next year.
May 29th next year http://www.cyclotour.ch/cms/0 -
Term1te wrote:Last year I was in a group of 4 for the last 80 km, and was out front for at least my fair share of that. If I was doing a 20km TT I'd be thinking of more aero wheels, and with last year's average speed for the whole event at over 37kph, aero has got to offer some advantage?
Same thing, but a different perspective. The energy saving from deep wheel rims is miniscule, but from the point of view of a TT, it may still represent a few seconds saved which you might judge worth it, especially with a PB at stake: TT's are all about splitting seconds. Those few seconds, or your imperceptible speed increase, will go unnoticed in a group environment.0 -
I have a different perspective to the whole deep section debate.
Last summer I would go out on my club's fast chaingang. When I took my regular spoked wheels, I always got dropped. When I strapped on the Zipp 404's - I always hung in there.
A couple of possible reasons:
1. Placebo
2. Aero advantage
3. Weight savings (they are a few pounds lighter I think!)
I suspect it was mostly number 3 - the weight savings meant that during periods of acceleration - I was able to get up to speed faster (coming out of corners, roundabouts, etc) and save a bit of energy.
But I can't dismiss the aero advantage offhand.
Of course there is no scientific basis for my observations, but I am firm believer that aero wheels DO help - even in groups.0
