Smartphone vs Garmin GPS

Mr Plum

I've recently been looking at getting a Garmin 705 and came across an interesting discussion on the Garmin website - https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=14005

Just wondering what people's take on this is as I'm due a phone upgrade in the not too distant future and am looking at the HTC Desire HD or similar... I'm particularly interested to hear from anyone that's used both Garmin and smartphone for GPS/cycle computer?

Obviously you can't really beat a dedicated unit, but if something else can give me 90% of the features and performance and will effectively not cost me a penny, then this is an alternative that I would would seriously consider pending suitable mounts and waterproofing.

SimonAH

....or a pda and a downloaded free copy TomTom, like I don't use of course?

hatbeard

while not exactly the same situation I was using my iphone for tracking my running and while it worked most of the time i would often struggle to locate the satellite (regular clearing of the location cache seemed to be the best fix) and it would sometimes add a few gps points a few miles away and increase my avg speed to that of a supercar

I then got a garmin forerunner 305 as I was getting bored of correcting my runs and the difference is worlds apart, I don't think I could go back to using the iphone at all.

another benefit of a garmin is the HR monitor option, it's nice to look back at a journey as see if i really was working as hard as I thought I was or if i was just a bit knackered.

I use my forerunner on the bike as well (wrist worn until I get the mount / cadence+speed sensor for xmas) and it functions perfectly well I can check it easily enough as I ride, I doubt I'd ever mount my phone to my bike though and it's next to impossible to use whilst riding along as well.

andrewjoseph

battery life and robustness would be my main concerns.

Mr Plum

hatbeard wrote:

while not exactly the same situation I was using my iphone for tracking my running and while it worked most of the time i would often struggle to locate the satellite (regular clearing of the location cache seemed to be the best fix) and it would sometimes add a few gps points a few miles away and increase my avg speed to that of a supercar

I then got a garmin forerunner 305 as I was getting bored of correcting my runs and the difference is worlds apart, I don't think I could go back to using the iphone at all.

another benefit of a garmin is the HR monitor option, it's nice to look back at a journey as see if i really was working as hard as I thought I was or if i was just a bit knackered.

I use my forerunner on the bike as well (wrist worn until I get the mount / cadence+speed sensor for xmas) and it functions perfectly well I can check it easily enough as I ride, I doubt I'd ever mount my phone to my bike though and it's next to impossible to use whilst riding along as well.

I've heard the Garmins can sometimes be a bit glitchy with the GPS as well? How accurate are they? I didn't realise you can get a speed and cadence sensor for something like the 305 - would be very interested to hear what that's like when you get it, but I would like the GPS maps as well due to a bit of touring that I've got planned for next spring/summer.

notsoblue

I used Cardiotrainer on my HTC Hero for about a year, and then bought a Garmin 800.

My thoughts:
The Garmin is more accurate, and picks up a GPS signal much faster. My HTC Hero's GPS seemed to struggle when there was lots of cloud cover (could just be a coincidence). In general its just much more reliable.

I don't have a handlebar mount (and wouldn't ever consider one really) for my mobile phone, so I don't have any access to any ride information while I'm out. My Garmin has a great display that gives me all the information I want to see. Also, being able to upload routes to it and use navigation is awesome. My phone can do this too, but again, I wouldn't want it mounted to my handbar. The Garmin is pretty rugged and I don't worry about it getting wet or mucky.

Battery life is much much better on the Garmin. I couldn't go out for a full day's riding and record it all with my phone, the battery just wouldn't last with Cardiotrainer or Endomondo running (even in airplane mode). When I extend my daily commute home to take in Richmond Park, the commute is about an hour and a half door to door. If my phone isn't fully charged it struggles to keep going for the full journey with Cardiotrainer running in the background (and admittedly, playing music).

ANT+ devices (cadence sensors, HR Monitors, Powermeters) aren't yet supported by Cardiotrainer or my HTC Hero (though I gather there are other apps and phones that will support them).

So yeah, I mainly got the Garmin because I wanted to record my longer rides, use HR/Cadence data, and have ride information on display in front of me. Cardiotrainer was awesome when I was just doing the daily commute, and I would see little point in investing in a Garmin 800 if you were just using it for that. But as my riding habits changed, I needed something more and the Garmin fitted the bill perfectly.

davmaggs

A phone is good for running an app that stores your routes and times (I use a HTC desire) and the GPS is sensitive enough for the unit to be tucked into a pocket. I'm not sure that I'd want to strap it the bike for live feedback due to weather and crash risk.

I like the phone because I'd be carrying it anyway, it is good enough, and importantly it can upload my times the moment I stop as it's an internet device.

A dedicated GPS (I don't know about bike ones) can be more sensitive than GPS added onto another device. The newer HCX ones work under trees and light overhead cover wheras the previous generation of Garmin ones didn't. I know this because I tried two units side by side.

I'd advise going with the phone for a few weeks if you are getting one anyway. Also buy a decent protective case for it (I recommend case-mate)

[edit] I realised after posting that notsoblue had got in first. If you want more of a pro experience (at a price) then you can't beat a dedicated device. A phone is really a compromise (like the inbuilt camera), and is good enough for my commuting [/edit]

notsoblue

Oh, also, Garmin Connect is pretty cool. Have PM'd you a link to one of my routes.

Finbar Saunders

I've had various smartphones and I also have a Garmin 705 with speed and cadence. I think a phone is fine for occasional use but I don't know how robust they are with regards to the constant vibration and bumps they will experience on a handle bar on the road. I use my 705 on my MTB as well and I don't think I would even consider using my phone on the handlebar for those rides. Suitable waterproofing would definitely be required for the smartphone, preferably something that still allows the screen to be viewed at a glance and the buttons to be used. Maps on smartphones look great indoors but can be a bit difficult to see outdoors. The 705 can have similar problems but not to the same extent. And at least compared to my HTC smartphones the Garmin GPS unit picks up a signal and holds it better. Even during my brief foray into running I preferred to hold my 705 in my hand as I ran than to use my phone.

I love my smartphone and although I got it free on contract it is worth more than my 705. If I were to damage it I think it would cost more to replace as I don't carry phone insurance. If I damaged my 705 I could live without it for a while until I replaced it.

hatbeard

Mr Plum wrote:

hatbeard wrote:

while not exactly the same situation I was using my iphone for tracking my running and while it worked most of the time i would often struggle to locate the satellite (regular clearing of the location cache seemed to be the best fix) and it would sometimes add a few gps points a few miles away and increase my avg speed to that of a supercar

I then got a garmin forerunner 305 as I was getting bored of correcting my runs and the difference is worlds apart, I don't think I could go back to using the iphone at all.

another benefit of a garmin is the HR monitor option, it's nice to look back at a journey as see if i really was working as hard as I thought I was or if i was just a bit knackered.

I use my forerunner on the bike as well (wrist worn until I get the mount / cadence+speed sensor for xmas) and it functions perfectly well I can check it easily enough as I ride, I doubt I'd ever mount my phone to my bike though and it's next to impossible to use whilst riding along as well.

I've heard the Garmins can sometimes be a bit glitchy with the GPS as well? How accurate are they? I didn't realise you can get a speed and cadence sensor for something like the 305 - would be very interested to hear what that's like when you get it, but I would like the GPS maps as well due to a bit of touring that I've got planned for next spring/summer.

occassionally it will be slow to lock on but once it's locked it's pretty rock-solid and the gps tracking is scarily accurate for the most part. There's one bit of my commute where I go under a partially covered tunnel around the roundabout by the museum of london that trips it up albeit only marginally but conversely when I go around rotherhithe roundabout the mapping shows precisely what line I took to go around it.

the cadence sensor is the same one you use with any of the garmins so should work fine.

if you have a smartphone with mapping then perhaps the cheaper non-mapped garmins might be a good compromise, when touring just take out your phone and use the maps when you get a bit lost/need to stop (or get a mount) but for day to day stuff just use the garmin.

soundninjauk

I use Runkeeper on my iPhone to keep track of my riding to and from work, but like was mentioned above I wouldn't use it for any more than that. I'm not really comfortable with the idea of strapping it to the handlebars and exposing to everything, and the battery certainly wouldn't last a full days riding. I can also keep it nicely tucked away in my bag because I'm not relying on the display.

stuaff

I've had a 705 since March, and just got an Orange San Francisco Android phone. The Garmin can & does last the claimed 15 hours on a full charge (I've done 12+ hour plus days on the bike, without switching it off during rest stops, and it's had juice left). +1 for the comments on accuracy. It can wander a little at times, but it's generally very good. GPS is a notorious battery killer on smartphones- all of them- and I'd be loathe to use it for serious riding (you could use a Powermonkey type device to charge it up again, but it's something else to carry, among other things). I've just been the phone as a music player (plus a spot of web use) in the last week or so, and it needs a charge every day like that, even with the power-sapping stuff off 90% of the time. And if you have a phone and a separate GPS, you've got one if you have a problem with the other (call for help, find out where you are, or both!).

hatbeard

this is a good article on how to extend the 305's battery life for £12

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2009/07/goin ... -with.html

I've got one of the duracell chargers in my bikebag in case I ever get caught short and have a flat phone battery, it comes with connectors for both iphone and my gps so it's ideal really.

Mr Plum

notsoblue wrote:

Oh, also, Garmin Connect is pretty cool. Have PM'd you a link to one of my routes.

Thanks for that, it does look pretty cool and seem like a useful tool for analising rides.


Some great advice on here, looks like I'll have to get a bloody Garmin now, there goes my PS3 fund... :P

I'll probably hold off on it for the meantime though and wait till I get a new phone - as others have said, may as well see how I get on using a phone for a few weeks, but realistically it seems like a Garmin will be the way to go.

notsoblue

Mr Plum wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Oh, also, Garmin Connect is pretty cool. Have PM'd you a link to one of my routes.

Thanks for that, it does look pretty cool and seem like a useful tool for analising rides.


Some great advice on here, looks like I'll have to get a bloody Garmin now, there goes my PS3 fund... :P

I'll probably hold off on it for the meantime though and wait till I get a new phone - as others have said, may as well see how I get on using a phone for a few weeks, but realistically it seems like a Garmin will be the way to go.

Out of interest, what kind of riding do you do?

nich

I have a Garmin legend that I used to use for hiking / climbing in the hills 'n mountains. To be honest it doesn't get much use.

I certainly wouldn't use it over my HTC Hero phone for commuting purposes. The only real benefit it has is battery life, but my phone can be charged at work / home so it's not a problem.

The phone gives much prettier output, plus has nice features such as uploading the route to google maps/documents. It also gives me a wide variety of 'apps' to choose from.

As far as I know you don't even need a good 3G connection - only at the point of uploading the info to the web. Amusingly the phone also gets a GPS signal quicker than the Legend...

Mr Plum

notsoblue wrote:

Mr Plum wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Oh, also, Garmin Connect is pretty cool. Have PM'd you a link to one of my routes.

Thanks for that, it does look pretty cool and seem like a useful tool for analising rides.


Some great advice on here, looks like I'll have to get a bloody Garmin now, there goes my PS3 fund... :P

I'll probably hold off on it for the meantime though and wait till I get a new phone - as others have said, may as well see how I get on using a phone for a few weeks, but realistically it seems like a Garmin will be the way to go.

Out of interest, what kind of riding do you do?

5 mile each way commute, then a 35 - 40 mile ride with a mate on the weekends. I'm stepping it up though and will need to put a lot more miles in over the next few months as I'm embarking on an 'end-to-end' ride for charity in May. Likely to up the commute to 10 miles each way and be pushing for an 80 or 90 mile weekend ride, then stepping it up again with a couple of 100 mile each way over-night stays leading up to the ride. We're still in the early planning stages at the moment but I done a couple of 90 mile rides before deciding to commit, so I kind of know what I'm letting myself in for...

Used to do a fair bit of XC riding as well but that's not happened for a good few months. I'd like to get back into that.

wgwarburton

Hi,
I reckon it depends how much you'll use it. If it's going to be used heavily to track your training or as a navigation aid then a dedicated device is probably worthwhile. If it's only going to get occasional use and you don't want it bar-mounted for day-long bike rides etc then a smartphone could well be all you'll need. It has the advantage that you don't need to pick up another "thing" to take with you and can be recharged easily etc. (depending on the actual 'phone, I guess).
FWIW I use SportsTracker (was a Nokia application, now spun off, I think) and it's pretty good- it also provides the heart rate option, if you buy a Bluetooth Polar gizmo to go with it, BTW.

As others have said I wouldn't want it on my 'bars but for scoping out new commuting routes (the maps can help if you lose your way and it'll track speed & elevation for you) and the occasional day ride it's fine.

Cheers,
W.

gtvlusso

Suggest you remove the Navi, TV, DVD and phone system from a Mercedes...

You can mount the NAVI DVD player under the saddle, it is a 6 disk dvd player, so feel free to add in some movies for viewing too. You will also need the head unit, has built in Freeview, you can choose between Navigation, TV, DVD digital radio or an mp3 player/hard drive with MP3's on it via the USB interface. Any phone will connect to the system via bluetooth - you will need to fit the 8 way speaker system to various point on your bike for stereo quality. Don't forget the undercentre console sub woofer!

Youw ill need a 12 volt battery attached to the downtube and a dynamo capable of delivering up to 80 amps to the battery for charging.

Fully integrated bike, done!

notsoblue

gtvlusso wrote:

Suggest you remove the Navi, TV, DVD and phone system from a Mercedes...

You can mount the NAVI DVD player under the saddle, it is a 6 disk dvd player, so feel free to add in some movies for viewing too. You will also need the head unit, has built in Freeview, you can choose between Navigation, TV, DVD digital radio or an mp3 player/hard drive with MP3's on it via the USB interface. Any phone will connect to the system via bluetooth - you will need to fit the 8 way speaker system to various point on your bike for stereo quality. Don't forget the undercentre console sub woofer!

Youw ill need a 12 volt battery attached to the downtube and a dynamo capable of delivering up to 80 amps to the battery for charging.

Fully integrated bike, done!

Moderator? Sticky this please...

Finbar Saunders

gtvlusso wrote:

has built in Freeview

Can you advise whether it is possible to use the bicycle frame as an aerial to receive Freeview, or would I need to attach a dedicated aerial? I'm wondering what frame material and design makes a better aerial if the frame could be used. If it can't, perhaps covering my helmet in foil would make an acceptable aerial.

meanredspider

Sorry to bring this kicking and screaming back OT but I'm a Garmin Forerunner 305 user. I use mine for commutes and other runs - handlebar mount, ant+ cadence (and speed - for no signal?), it's great. I can also use it for hill walking (the track-back feature is a superb safety aid if the weather closes in) and running. They can be picked up for shade over 100 quid new (mount and cadence sensor extra). I even used it to track my snowboarding progress at Whistler.

They also download direct to GoogleEarth which is a nice feature.

I have an iPhone 4 but wouldn't use it for this application for all the reasons quoted above. It would make a useful addition for navigating a new route

Butterd2

After much wrestling with this topic I have just bought a 705 for myself from the wife for Xmas. Should keep me occupied on Boxing day try to upload the opensource maps onto it.