Supermarket fuel

.blitz

I noticed a big sign in the Ford dealers the other day, something to the effect that supermarket fuel was the spawn of Satan and if you've used it, you need to get through two or three tankfuls of proppa BP before your car is OK again :?

What do you think? Pure hype or is supermarket fuel inferior in some way to the stuff from BP/Shell etc?

DCR00

I know a fried of mine had water in his fuel lines. He only ever used Morrisons petrol. They denied liability of course.

When i had my Megane, i only ever used V Power, but i use normal Shell now.

IMO there is a reason its so cheap

Tartanyak

There are differences in quality and supermarkets don't put in as many lovely yummy additives - I've got no hard facts though I stopped using supermarket fuel about 3 tanks ago and my car's running much smoother now. Could be my imagination, but I don't think so.

Gazlar

I know Morrisons Fuel has a percentage of Biodiesel in it, not sure about other fuels though

I thought this was just a myth, thats what I was told by my friends dad who is a refinery boss for Taxaco in Milford Haven. He always fills up his own car at Morrisons though

El Capitano

Always use Morrison's fuel. Never had a problem with it.

spongtastic

A big tank holds lots of petrol or diesel. A tanker turns up and takes fuel from the big tank, puts it in the little tanks, which then fill your cars even smaller tank.

Unless you go for the premium unleaded or diesel options there is no difference.

The 'issue' with a certain supermarkets fuel a couple of years back never existed according to a friend at the SMMT. All the cars found to be affected were poorly maintained vehicles or those that had been using home made bio diesel of poor quality, which the owners then decided to blame on said supermarket.

Pudseyp

As above it all comes from the same refinary...though I do use performance diesel for more pokage !

mudsucker

I have heard that supermarket fuel pretty much just meets the guilde lines for what is required for petrol quality. To be honest i ave always used Tescos petrol in my Focus and runs fine . Have used BP, Shell etc and made no difference.

Pudseyp

Think it has been said..unless you pay for the premium the general diesel and uleaded is the same...it all has to conform to the same EN standard...I pass Shell stanlow quite a bit and see allsorts of tankers coming out including Tesco, Murco, Sainsburys, Fina....

fungus_the_muffin_man

Has anyone ever tried using those small bottles of additive that you can buy from the "car products" counter in the supermarket?

Do they really help clean up your engine?

CraigXXL

Morrison's did have a problem where additives that should have been added to the petrol wasn't and caused the O2 sensor to fail. Other supermarkets have had their share of problems too and you do tend to get what you're paying for.
An old friend now works delivering fuel and last time I'd seen him we debated the branded verses supermarket fuel. The fact that none of his work mates or the depot workers used supermarket fuel unless they had to said it all me to me.

bails87

Fungus The Muffin Man wrote:

Has anyone ever tried using those small bottles of additive that you can buy from the "car products" counter in the supermarket?

Do they really help clean up your engine?

I'm sure they got told off by the advertising watchdog for selling something that doesn't work and making unsubstantiated claims on the labels a while ago. So maybe not.

Does the V-Power type stuff contain the same additives? Because it's cheaper to pay the extra and get a couple of tanks of that than to buy one little bottle of Redex or whatever it is.

.blitz

My understanding is that all crude into UK refineries is the same and all pertrol/diesel products out of the refineries are the same. The only difference is in the form of additives which are added to the fuel, sometimes at the refinery and sometimes at the point of delivery. There is an agreement in place to the effect that e.g. Shell fuel can be delivered to Tesco if Tesco has a shortage, and vice-versa. No fuel company has its own tankers anymore, they are all sub-contracted out so a Shell tanker in your local Tesco doesn't mean anything.

Fuel from the forecourt has to meet a minimum standard. BP/Shell etc can exceed this standard but it's not like the standard is inferior in some way. I heard a long time ago that fuel quality varies more from season-to-season than it does from garage-to-garage but I don't know how true this is.

I think the biggest difference is in terms of storage. The fuel is stored underground at the garage/supermarket and I wonder what checks are made to ensure the fuel isn't contaminated?

Pudseyp

bails87 wrote:

Fungus The Muffin Man wrote:

Has anyone ever tried using those small bottles of additive that you can buy from the "car products" counter in the supermarket?

Do they really help clean up your engine?

I'm sure they got told off by the advertising watchdog for selling something that doesn't work and making unsubstantiated claims on the labels a while ago. So maybe not.

Does the V-Power type stuff contain the same additives? Because it's cheaper to pay the extra and get a couple of tanks of that than to buy one little bottle of Redex or whatever it is.

There are different types such as additives that help clean the catalic convertor these do work on older cases and have used it before an MOT to help the omisions....you can also get fuel injection cleaners which break down the carbon deposits at the end of the injector so you get a nice spray rather than a dribble (sounds dirty that dunit) so you get a better combustion....and the other is octane boosters which is the weapon of choice for the boy racer and boosts standard unleaded petrols octane level to V Power and BP ultimate levels...thus increasing BHP (basically little pixies in your tank growing minute horses that make you go faster....it must be true it was on top gear)

nicklouse

Most of the fuel in South/West Yorkshire comes from the same depot.

Tanker fills up. and then adds the required "extras" for where the delivery will be.

bails87

http://www.asa.org.uk/Asa-Action/Adjudi ... 46408.aspx

Just one brand that got told off.

Action
The ad must not appear again in its current form. We told Greenpower Fuels to remove the claims "Increase miles per litre by 20% to 30%;" "CREATES MORE POWER;" and "THE MORE YOU USE IT - THE BETTER THE RESULTS" from their ad.

VWsurfbum

where do you think the supermarkets get it from? Sainsburys and tescos both get theres from BP!

CraigXXL

.blitz wrote:

My understanding is that all crude into UK refineries is the same and all pertrol/diesel products out of the refineries are the same. The only difference is in the form of additives which are added to the fuel, sometimes at the refinery and sometimes at the point of delivery. There is an agreement in place to the effect that e.g. Shell fuel can be delivered to Tesco if Tesco has a shortage, and vice-versa. No fuel company has its own tankers anymore, they are all sub-contracted out so a Shell tanker in your local Tesco doesn't mean anything.

Fuel from the forecourt has to meet a minimum standard. BP/Shell etc can exceed this standard but it's not like the standard is inferior in some way. I heard a long time ago that fuel quality varies more from season-to-season than it does from garage-to-garage but I don't know how true this is.

I think the biggest difference is in terms of storage. The fuel is stored underground at the garage/supermarket and I wonder what checks are made to ensure the fuel isn't contaminated?

That's the way I had explained reagrding drivers and most of the fuels are coming from the same depots but the quality is different depending on where it is going to. The minimum standard is just that and it's like the economy to special branded food, they'll both fill you up but you know which will taste and digest better. The testing and additives are done at the refinery and this dictates the quality of the fuel delivered. The problem we have is the modern engines having more sensors that can be easily damaged and a faulty £15 sensor can stop it from running.
All forecourt fuel has a minimum of 5% (IIRC) biofuel added to regular fuel as part of the previous governments commitment to green policies.

El Capitano

bails87 wrote:

http://www.asa.org.uk/Asa-Action/Adjudications/2009/6/Greenpower-Fuel/TF_ADJ_46408.aspx

Just one brand that got told off.

Action
The ad must not appear again in its current form. We told Greenpower Fuels to remove the claims "Increase miles per litre by 20% to 30%;" "CREATES MORE POWER;" and "THE MORE YOU USE IT - THE BETTER THE RESULTS" from their ad.

Pfff, who believes this stuff anyway?

Everyone knows the best way to increase your engine's power is to fit furry dice, 100kg of speakers in the boot, go-faster racing stripes and an exhaust tail-pipe this size of Belgium to your 1 litre Saxo...

Thewaylander

I've actually done extended MPG tests with my diesel on Asda/tesco and Shell including Vpower deisel.

What i found is Asda+Tesco were about the same and my engine sounded like a bag of spanners, I got about 4MPG more out of the standard shell and the engine was smoother and starts better in the cold. And for V-power i got averagely about another 1mpg out of it so i couldn't justify the prcie for it.

So no i never put supermarket cack in now.

And yes i used a few tanks of fuels as the engine learns with each fuel type for the better mix to give right right performance and MPG.

For diesel some additives means it ignites better under pressure, and so on, have read a fair bit on this and most performace car drivers avoid supermarket fuels these days.

.blitz

Thewaylander wrote:

...most performace car drivers avoid supermarket fuels these days.

Is that the critical bit though - for those of us with humble motahs it doesn't really make any difference?

Thewaylander

Well mine isnt a performance car, Just got my old deisel cupra leon/FR its nothing exceedingly special just a smart quick motor.

And i got those figures from resting in this, so i think the answer really is yes.

A work mate as the fabia VRS witht he same 1.9TDI but 130 instead of 150 that i have and he gets very similar results so I'm sure these findings are not one offs.

bwfc4eva868

I used to only put Shell or BP premium fuels in my motorbike, but due to laziness i started using Morrisons fuel for a few weeks before i went on holiday for 2 weeks, and when i came back i filled up with fresh Morrisons stuff. A week later, my bike has issues with what i think is clogged Jets in the carbs. The fuel filter was full of gunge and its running like an arse.

So back to premium stuff me thinks.

El Capitano

.blitz wrote:

Thewaylander wrote:

...most performace car drivers avoid supermarket fuels these days.

Is that the critical bit though - for those of us with humble motahs it doesn't really make any difference?

The Cakemobile (Subaru Legacy 3.0) could be considered a 'performance' car, but I've found no difference between fuels with this car.

That said, the Espace drove better on Texaco petrol than BP and absolutely drank Tesco petrol.

bwfc4eva868

What about bikes? Mines not exactly a performance bike a (250cc) but you really can tell the difference between the two. No performance gains, just slightly better economy, easier to start and smoother throttle response.

Thewaylander

Indeed,

I swear its more of a dirt thing, clogging up your filters and all sorts. As i said, in a coupld of deisel motors we have got solid figures across a good few tanks with higher MPG compared to Supermarkets, so if its what they put in it, or how they store it who knows but it's baaaad.

cooldad

Thewaylander wrote:

And yes i used a few tanks of fuels as the engine learns with each fuel type for the better mix to give right right performance and MPG.

I would call this rubbish. Engines don't learn, and mixture changes are instantaneous, sensors pick up info, relay to magic black box, which changes mixture settings.

CraigXXL

Isn't that what he said. Maybe not the engine itself learning but the ECU adapting to the fuel mix and ignition.

cooldad

AFAIK once an ECU is mapped, it's simply a curve, and the brain just reads settings off the curve for that set of sensor readings. The mapped curve can't change by itself.

WisePranker

cooldad wrote:

AFAIK once an ECU is mapped, it's simply a curve, and the brain just reads settings off the curve for that set of sensor readings. The mapped curve can't change by itself.

That's correct. The map isn't just a curve, more of a 3D map. The fuelling will only be adjusted within the parameters of the map depending on various sensor readings.

Personally I've never noticed any difference on my car or bike no matter which fuel I use so I just use the cheapest!

Raymondavalon

On the diesel I will quite happily use supermarket fuel, it's cheaper and it burns, but there is a slight MPG difference per tank and as for the performance? I don't notice any gain or loss between supermarket and branded diesel

When it comes to petrol it's a different scenario, I avoid supermarket petrol at all costs, even if the local Shell/BP is 5p/L more, I'd pay the difference
My Land Rover Discovery V8 is a pig on supermarket super unleaded, irrespective of which supermarket brand I use.
Switch to Shell or BP (As I boycot Esso solely because they're French) and the it flies once I've worked all the supermarket blend petrol out of the tank.

There is most certainly a difference with petrol, but as for the ULS2000 diesel, I don't feel a significant difference at all

Regarding bio diesel, it is less efficient than "normal" diesel and I know as a fact that a vehicle will have to burn 3-5% more to get the same performance