£6k bikes

rockmonkeysc

I went along to a Orange / Trek demo day this weekend, just to see what mega expensive bikes ride like & I was dissapointed. One of the bikes I tried was a £6500 Trek Remedy 9.9 carbon and although it was nice enough I just couldn't believe it was worth 4 times what my Giant Trance cost. The sram XX gearing didn't feel much different to my shimano SLX gearing & I didn't think the top spec fox forks felt much different to my basic F120r forks.
The only expensive bike I tried that I was really impressed by was a Orange 224 evo race downhill bike but that is the only real DH bike I have ever tried.
The nicest xc/trail bike I tried was a £1600 Orange P7, I really liked that, really nice frame, just simple & very effective but nothing too fancy.
Are expensive bikes really worth all that money & did I miss the point?

bluechair84

I see bikes as a personal thing. It strikes me that the bike you buy says something about you. Or not. It says nothing about you and everything about your wallet, the same way a flash car does. I think this because of a number of shop bought top end rig owners who I have the misfortune to talk with. The guys who overtake me on nails bikes are far more interesting people.
But building up your very own expensive bike says about you too, that you know what you are buying and can build a bike. you can discuss choices made and differences between components. Of course, it's a stereotype but one I can't shift from my mind.
If you're gonna spend big, personalise it so you know what you're talking about.

bluechair84

double post :oops:

steponahen

Once you get over 2k they all basically perform the same. The silly money bikes should be lighter though.

supersonic

The law of dimishing returns.

Though when testing bikes, try and make sure the suspension is set up to your liking.

Atz

Didn't we do this subject to death recently? Buy what you want, ride what you want. Don't spend as much time pigeon holing other riders because they can/can't afford a good bike.

Just to add, I've built up 2 bikes, heavily modified a third and I know my off the shelf bike as well as those. Whether you've selected the components is irrelevant.

bluechair84

Being a mod must be quite painful, watching these things come and go time and time again.

@Atz - then you're one of the interesting bikers

steponahen

The OP's not pigeon holing anyone, just saying that he couldn't really tell the difference between mid and top price bikes. That's seems to me to be a different topic from the usual 'all the gear no idea' type threads.

rockmonkeysc

I just personally couldn't feel enough difference. If I had the cash I would buy a Giant Trance Advanced SL for £5.5k but I cant.
I was a little dissapointed buy the Remedy 9.9 in particular, maybe it was badly set up.
I would sell the wife to get an Orange 224 though, that had me grinning like an idiot from the top of the trail to the last drop at the bottom.

monkeypants

Some bikes are expensive because they're high-tech, others because they're hand made by small companies.

If you want the latest carbon fibre non-sense then bike manufacturers insist on hanging the spangliest kit off it pushing the price into the heavens so that only kings and dentists can afford them, but if you bought one you'd probably not see another one out on the trails for a very long time.

If you want something hand made and welded by a hairy ginger American then you pay a premium for that but the bonus is you can build it up how you want it and probably never see another one quite the same as long as you own it.

People with money spend it for exclusivity.

bluechair84

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I just personally couldn't feel enough difference. If I had the cash I would buy a Giant Trance Advanced SL for £5.5k but I cant.
I was a little dissapointed buy the Remedy 9.9 in particular, maybe it was badly set up.
I would sell the wife to get an Orange 224 though, that had me grinning like an idiot from the top of the trail to the last drop at the bottom.

I do find it interesting that you couldn't feel much value in the most expensive rig - Doubt i'll try anything worth over £3k... and only then if it's someone elses

Zziplex

It's all fuelled by the mags.

They convince you that the latest suspension design etc is so much better than the previous, even though the previous years was hailed as the 2nd coming too.

This keeps the interest in the sport 'alive' and gives the mags something to write about, without anything to write about, they would soon go out of business. Then they put arbitrary star score systems in place to convince you further.

Gary Fisher has made a career out of reinventing the wheel, change for change's sake rather than for any real world benefit.

The reality of the situation is that the very best bike in the world won't make you enjoy your ride any more than what you was riding 10 years ago. The satisfaction derived will be more or less the same.

The best thing about high end bikes is the technology trickle down effect for wider mountain biking, and when they're superseded by the next years model. Very often you can make a good saving on 'last years' model.

Each to their own though, no point having money in the bank when it could buy summat that looks cool, just make sure it hasn't got a garish Fisher paint job. 8)

Atz

Bluechair - New, your bike would be pushing past 3k at normal shop prices without much difficulty

njee20

The trouble is that these days a lot of off the shelf mass produced bikes are more expensive than the more 'niche' ones. A 2011 Top Fuel 9.9 frame is £3000, more than a Blur XCc, Mojo SL, Titus, Intense, Turner etc etc. A Carbon Santa Cruz is a cheaper alternative to the top end mainstream stuff now!

Saying that, most top end production bikes go to shop sponsored riders who dont pay anything like full price! Like me :-)

weeksy59

njee20 wrote:

Saying that, most top end production bikes go to shop sponsored riders who dont pay anything like full price! Like me :-)

The most important thing for me, is that it's people like you who can notice the difference and appreciate teh difference between a £3000 and a £6000 bike.

Average Joe could ride all day on a £1000 bike and be equally as average as he would on a £6000.

MountainMonster

weeksy59 wrote:

njee20 wrote:

Saying that, most top end production bikes go to shop sponsored riders who dont pay anything like full price! Like me :-)

The most important thing for me, is that it's people like you who can notice the difference and appreciate teh difference between a £3000 and a £6000 bike.

Average Joe could ride all day on a £1000 bike and be equally as average as he would on a £6000.

I highly doubt there is much of a noticable difference between a 6k and 3k bike, miniscule if anything.

I don't understand the philosophy behind a 6k bike at all, or what makes it so much better than a 3k bike. My father in law has a Merida FS he has built up and has cost around 7.5k so far, and I feel absolutely no difference than with my 2.5k bike. The thing I find funny, is he spent so much money on that bike, and i'm still faster than him on the downhills which he has truely built the bike for.

But if it wasn't for people like him, and the people who buy the 6k bikes, there would be no trickle down effect, which improves the cheaper products every year.

cat_with_no_tail

weeksy59 wrote:

njee20 wrote:

Saying that, most top end production bikes go to shop sponsored riders who dont pay anything like full price! Like me :-)

The most important thing for me, is that it's people like you who can notice the difference and appreciate teh difference between a £3000 and a £6000 bike.

Average Joe could ride all day on a £1000 bike and be equally as average as he would on a £6000.

Very much this!

weeksy59

MountainMonster wrote:

weeksy59 wrote:

njee20 wrote:

Saying that, most top end production bikes go to shop sponsored riders who dont pay anything like full price! Like me :-)

The most important thing for me, is that it's people like you who can notice the difference and appreciate teh difference between a £3000 and a £6000 bike.

Average Joe could ride all day on a £1000 bike and be equally as average as he would on a £6000.

I highly doubt there is much of a noticable difference between a 6k and 3k bike, miniscule if anything.

I don't understand the philosophy behind a 6k bike at all, or what makes it so much better than a 3k bike. My father in law has a Merida FS he has built up and has cost around 7.5k so far, and I feel absolutely no difference than with my 2.5k bike. The thing I find funny, is he spent so much money on that bike, and i'm still faster than him on the downhills which he has truely built the bike for.

But if it wasn't for people like him, and the people who buy the 6k bikes, there would be no trickle down effect, which improves the cheaper products every year.

What level of rider are you ?

supra-man

with bikes I d say the more you ride and really push them the more you ll appreciate, subtle changes in parts. like stiffer wheels and lighter ones that ll make you accelerate better turn better, track better. ultimately may be you will only get the edge over a lower specced bike.

but for every day fun riding. A bike is more about what you want than what you need. as from around 2 k or even less, i think they perform mor or less the same.

The rider makes the biggest difference.

rockmonkeysc

I guess I would probably feel a difference in top end suspension if I could ride hard enough to use that extra performance. The transmission parts etc I would never feel the difference except maybe in weight & if I needed too loose a bit of weight I have got a fair amount of lard hanging off myself that I could loose for a lot les money.

MountainMonster

weeksy59 wrote:

MountainMonster wrote:

weeksy59 wrote:

njee20 wrote:

Saying that, most top end production bikes go to shop sponsored riders who dont pay anything like full price! Like me :-)

The most important thing for me, is that it's people like you who can notice the difference and appreciate teh difference between a £3000 and a £6000 bike.

Average Joe could ride all day on a £1000 bike and be equally as average as he would on a £6000.

I highly doubt there is much of a noticable difference between a 6k and 3k bike, miniscule if anything.

I don't understand the philosophy behind a 6k bike at all, or what makes it so much better than a 3k bike. My father in law has a Merida FS he has built up and has cost around 7.5k so far, and I feel absolutely no difference than with my 2.5k bike. The thing I find funny, is he spent so much money on that bike, and i'm still faster than him on the downhills which he has truely built the bike for.

But if it wasn't for people like him, and the people who buy the 6k bikes, there would be no trickle down effect, which improves the cheaper products every year.

What level of rider are you ?

I'd say high average or so. He's just your average rider, just with lots of cash spunk. Lucky bugger.

weeksy59

Exactly mate... that's my point...

The Elite riders will notice the difference, average Joe... won.t

Same with performance cars, performance motorbikes etc... They're not magical items to make slow people fast.

But a fast person can notice the infinite details, weights, tuning etc

desmojen

Whilst I agree that the rider can make the most difference, I can't agree with the idea that a 6k bike is not better than a 3k bike.

I was lucky enough to have a ride on a 1 month old Santa Cruz Nomad carbon earlier this year. This was a full on , no expense spared dream build type bike, from the XTR everything to the 2011 Kashima coat Fox forks.
I was absolutely blown away by the thing, it was blindingly quick, with super accurate steering and a generally precise feel to it. A very far cry from the way you might expect a 180mm bike to ride.
The owner had just come from the Alps and was equally impressed by it. Some riders might ride a bike like that and not notice the difference, which is fair enough. But that doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't a difference.

Jen.

weeksy59

desmojen wrote:

Whilst I agree that the rider can make the most difference, I can't agree with the idea that a 6k bike is not better than a 3k bike.

I was lucky enough to have a ride on a 1 month old Santa Cruz Nomad carbon earlier this year. This was a full on , no expense spared dream build type bike, from the XTR everything to the 2011 Kashima coat Fox forks.
I was absolutely blown away by the thing, it was blindingly quick, with super accurate steering and a generally precise feel to it. A very far cry from the way you might expect a 180mm bike to ride.
The owner had just come from the Alps and was equally impressed by it. Some riders might ride a bike like that and not notice the difference, which is fair enough. But that doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't a difference.

Jen.

What £3k bike were you comparing it to ?

The Rookie

I would also add, someone used to riding a good bike will still need time (probably longer than a 10-20 minute demo ride) to redial their expectations and demands to push the 'better' bike (assuming it is better) to its limits which are beyond that of say a £2K bike.

I certainly am not good enough to push a £2K bike to its limits, but pretty much know what I'm doing behind the wheel of a car and can understand that sometimes it can take a while to 'recalibrate expectations', although the memory of sliding an Esprit V8 turbo round a 60mph hairpin in the pouring rain will never leave me! (only had 20 mins in the car!)

Simon

supra-man

I would add the rider has to pay attention to the ride and analyse how the bike behaves. you need the right mindset to notice the details. Its not necessarily a question of elite rider. or driver in sport car go kart example.

But then there is the bling effect. how much faster would that Nomad be over a normal one, that has 2010 fox forks, and a simple slx double plus bash ect.
would it logically justify the extra 3k?

its like in cars or motor bikes the morenoise they make or the lower they are to the ground( ie cars) the faster you think the go. youtake a big german saloon you wont see the speed, same performancein a japanese hatchback you think you are in a rallye car.

milfredo

This has been covered a lot...

My experience is very different...

I have gone up the scale through bike...

£500 - £2000 Hardtail back in 1996 - there was a lot of difference.
£2000 (1996) to £1500 (2003) Full suspension - there was a lot of difference.
£1500 with another £1500+ spent on it (became a completely different bike) - there was a lot of difference.
£3000+ to the new Santacruz BLT carbon - there was a lot of difference (even though a lot of the parts have moved over onto the Blur.

I've never riden so fast over so varying terrain and smiled so much. I'm fitter, thinner faster and the bike just does not let up. Super stiff, really light and very capable. Would I buy another all depends if I will ever have the disposable income again. With a kiddie on the way, this could have possibly been my last opertunity to ride a bike like this and I'm stoked.

A lot of my friends ride top of the range Specializeds and one or two should never have bothered spending the money if you look at their riding styles. Do they regret spending the dosh? NO, they love those bikes and love riding them almost as much as they love owning them. Do they deserve them? YES, 100 times over, as they bought them with their own hard earned cash!

If you can then why not!?

njee20

I can tell the difference between my Top Fuel 9.9 and a 9, which is nearly £3000, it's heavier, and you can tell, less sprightly on the climbs. I suspect most folk would notice the difference frankly.

A 9.8 would be harder to tell, but I reckon a lot would still notice the extra pound in the wheels, I know I can tell when I've run different wheels on mine.

The Spiderman

Some differences are only detected when you ride bikes back to back.
Probably the nicest bike I have ridden was a carbon Specialized Epic and it did feel better than anything else I have ridden.

You do hit the laws of a diminishing returns though,and I suspect that it was the suspension and fork performance /frame,then wheels that made the biggest difference.
I do think that if the fundamentals are right of the frame and you have decent wheels,there is some merit in this argument.

So yes to a an expensive frame ,forks and wheeelset but I`d be happy with something like an SLX/X7/X9 groupset.Its amazing how much money seems to be eaten up,by having stuff like carbon bars,carbon brake levers on your brakes,carbon fork steerers,and flashy finishing kit,which probably adds little in the way of functionality.

I reckon I could probabl build or buy a bike for £3k which would be all I ever needed.

If you have the money though,I wouldn`t stand in your way if you wanted to spend £6k.A bike is an emotional purcase when you get into that level.

SDK2007

njee20 wrote:

I can tell the difference between my Top Fuel 9.9 and a 9, which is nearly £3000, it's heavier, and you can tell, less sprightly on the climbs. I suspect most folk would notice the difference frankly

Exactly this

Take a £3k Specialized Epic and ride up a heart breaking hill. Do the same hill on a £6k Specialized Epic and you will notice the difference.

bluechair84

njee20 wrote:

I suspect most folk would notice the difference frankly.

to the power of

supersonic wrote:

law of diminishing returns

I notice when i'm riding with different shoes because it changes my stance height - n+£3000 is noticeable But not necessarily worth it for most riders.