How does timing work ?- Sportives

dabber

Hi, my first post here so sorry for what I suspect is a really dumb question.

I'm looking to do my first sportive in 2011.. probably initially try and limit it to one of around 50 miles. However, I'm a bit confused how the timing works after talking to a friend of mine who has completed the JOG to LE. It concerns the refreshment pit stops. Is the timing given for the sportive the total elapsed time... from start to finish... or as my friend seemed to indicate, the timing stops for the period you are in the refreshment stop and restarts when you exit it.

As I said, probably a really dumb question but i've tried searching both here and other sites and I haven't found anything about it. :oops:

Thanks

Omar Little

Depends on the sportive - some give the total elapsed time, some stop the clock when in a refreshment stop (and usually give it as total elapsed time as well as cycling time). To complicate things further there are some which have mulitple refreshment stops but only 1 of these will have the timing mats to stop the clock

dabber

Thanks a lot for the quick reply. It looks like there is no one answer to this and I guess I'd have to ask the organisers of any one that i was thinking of doing. I was interested as I've seen some articles on various sportives which include a few lines from participants who have done it which give their times but also mention the pitstops and it wasn't clear to me whether they were including or excluding the pitstop times.

Brakeless

I've probably done about 20 sportives and the time has always been recorded from start to finish including feed stops. Take 20 minutes at a feed stop, and your finish time is 20 minutes longer than if you didn't stop.

vs

I've done more than 60 sportives and they have all been total time taken including stops.

dabber

Thanks for that. I thought it was a bit optimistic to think there would be a "free" rest period.
I guess I'll have to put on hold the plan for a Thai massage halfway round :roll:

Buckled_Rims

Yeah, total time from start to finish in all the sportives I've done.

As many events have gold and silver standards, the less time you "pit stop" the better for your attempt at these standards. If they were to stop the clock at your pit stops then that actually makes a mockery of any award standard as dozens are able to complete to gold without a stop even on 100 milers.

Gazzaputt

For me I always use the timing from my GPS as this give a true 'ride' time.

Timing chips imo are a waste as they give a overall time and cannot take into account pit stops, punctures etc.

nickwill

Gazzaputt wrote:

For me I always use the timing from my GPS as this give a true 'ride' time.

Timing chips imo are a waste as they give a overall time and cannot take into account pit stops, punctures etc.

That misses the point completely. If you ran a marathon and stopped regularly, your time would take in the stops. The same applies to a sportive. It's a simple concept. The time you are given is the time you take to get round the course. Part of the art of getting a good time is minimising stops. If you keep stopping for a rest, you are going to be slower!

Gazzaputt

Nickwill wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

For me I always use the timing from my GPS as this give a true 'ride' time.

Timing chips imo are a waste as they give a overall time and cannot take into account pit stops, punctures etc.

That misses the point completely. If you ran a marathon and stopped regularly, your time would take in the stops. The same applies to a sportive. It's a simple concept. The time you are given is the time you take to get round the course. Part of the art of getting a good time is minimising stops. If you keep stopping for a rest, you are going to be slower!

Sorry disagree.

In a marathon you can keep running and drinks and food are passed to you.

I'm yet to ride a sportive where at pit stops someone is there handing musettes out as you pass.

You have to stop to fill your bottle and I've done sportives where I've had to queue sometime to get a bottle filled.

GPS timing would be far better.

malcolmfrost

This year I was in the Marmotte. I didn't make it up the Alpe, but completed the course the next day. Was my time 9:15 or 32:45?
It's always start to finish elapsed time.

nickwill

Gazzaputt wrote:

Nickwill wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

For me I always use the timing from my GPS as this give a true 'ride' time.

Timing chips imo are a waste as they give a overall time and cannot take into account pit stops, punctures etc.

That misses the point completely. If you ran a marathon and stopped regularly, your time would take in the stops. The same applies to a sportive. It's a simple concept. The time you are given is the time you take to get round the course. Part of the art of getting a good time is minimising stops. If you keep stopping for a rest, you are going to be slower!

Sorry disagree.

In a marathon you can keep running and drinks and food are passed to you.

I'm yet to ride a sportive where at pit stops someone is there handing musettes out as you pass.

You have to stop to fill your bottle and I've done sportives where I've had to queue sometime to get a bottle filled.

GPS timing would be far better.

You just have to factor that in. If you don't count stops it would mean that people could stop and take a rest before embarking on a climb. There really is an art to flitting in and out of checkpoints. Delays are pretty minimal on a well organised event. Stop, check in , fill your bottle and away. Anything other than that and you might as well go on a club run or an Audax and have cafe stops. You can still keep tabs on your riding time as well. If you are organised the difference should only be a maximum of 6 or 7 minutes on a 100 mile hilly sprtive.

bompington

I've only done the Etape C, and despite having a prodgious appetite and a tendency to sweat like a pig, I've always carried my own food & drink & have never stopped yet (except for punctures...) and, while we all know that it's not a race , it would peeve me slightly if someone claimed a time, say, 5 minutes faster than me, by dint of stopping for 10 minutes or so along the way.

nickwill

bompington wrote:

I've only done the Etape C, and despite having a prodgious appetite and a tendency to sweat like a pig, I've always carried my own food & drink & have never stopped yet (except for punctures...) and, while we all know that it's not a race , it would peeve me slightly if someone claimed a time, say, 5 minutes faster than me, by dint of stopping for 10 minutes or so along the way.

+1. Not that I'm competitive or anything !

dabber

Thanks for all the replies (and different opinions). I now understand the basis on which I will be given a time (and it still gives me the chance to record my own "pedal time").

When my friend (referred to in my original post) told me that the time stopped during pitstops I was a bit suprised and thought it would be a bit of a copout. I got further confused when I read some articles where riders seemed to be enthusing about the quality of the refreshments at the pitstops which seemed to suggest that riders were taking quite long stops.

I now understand this not to be the case and when I start doing some I'd want to minimise pitstop time as I'll need to save every minute possible to not get a time too embarassing.

nickwill

Dabber wrote:

Thanks for all the replies (and different opinions). I now understand the basis on which I will be given a time (and it still gives me the chance to record my own "pedal time").

When my friend (referred to in my original post) told me that the time stopped during pitstops I was a bit suprised and thought it would be a bit of a copout. I got further confused when I read some articles where riders seemed to be enthusing about the quality of the refreshments at the pitstops which seemed to suggest that riders were taking quite long stops.

I now understand this not to be the case and when I start doing some I'd want to minimise pitstop time as I'll need to save every minute possible to not get a time too embarassing.

Some people do take long stops. In the end, that's the joy of sportives. Some ride for a time, others ride to get round. Each to his own!

holker

Another question, how are gold, silver standards set? Is it a national standard or up to race director? Is it different for different age groups and sexes? How does amount of ascent affect it?

Brian B

The only sportive that i have done that stops the clock is the drumlanrig challenge. Its great but you can have the tendancy to spend too much time and can get stiff.

I have seen some people post there 'ride time' but the official time and the one that I go for is start to finish.

Thats the great thing about sportives is that they are is hard as you make it. I have seen people having a right good time at the rest stops and taking advantage of a break. Where others like myself its as quick as they can fill their bottles, some snacks in the pocket and a pee and off again.

On some sportives like the fred whitton I have seen people not stopping at the feed stattions and rely on friends/family to supply them snacks and drinks on the move and must have a bladder like a camel. Now who says sportives are not taken seriously

Garz

Yeah whilst before the event I have all the intentions of not stopping, yet during the event the stops can't come quick enough and I always take a refill/breather if only for two mins! :oops:

Brian B

holker wrote:

Another question, how are gold, silver standards set? Is it a national standard or up to race director? Is it different for different age groups and sexes? How does amount of ascent affect it?

Some standards can vary with your age. eg:-

Gold time for 100miles for age group <40 - 6hrs
Gold time for 100miles for age group >40 - 6:30hrs

To complicate further some sportives dont differentiate between age groups at all for standards. There is no national standard and seems just to be set at random judging with the sportives that I have done and gold, silver times can vary greatly between them.

Hope this helps

Buckled_Rims

holker wrote:

Another question, how are gold, silver standards set? Is it a national standard or up to race director? Is it different for different age groups and sexes? How does amount of ascent affect it?

I think it's up to the organisers. There's age and sex groups. For example this is an extract from my last Sportive the Ryedale Rumble on the 71 mile route:

Gender cat age

---

gold- av mph- silver- av mph- Bronze
Women A- under 18- 5:21:00 13.29 6:15:00 11.38 all others
Women B- 18-39--- 5:02:00 14.13 5:41:00 12.52 all others
Women C- 40+

---

5:21:00 13.29 6:15:00 11.38 all others
Men

---

D- under 18- 4:59:00 14.27 5:36:00 12.70 all others
Men---- E- 18-29---- 4:47:00 14.86 5:26:00 13.09 all others
Men---- F- 30-39---- 4:47:00 14.86 5:26:00 13.09 all others
Men---- G- 40-49---- 4:57:00 14.36 5:36:00 12.70 all others
Men---- H- 50-59---- 5:02:00 14.13 5:41:00 12.52 all others
Men---- J- 60+

---

5:12:00 13.67 5:50:00 12.19 all others


This route had 2 very hard hills to climb and I believe that's factored in the times. Sorry about the formating but you get the picture

andy_wrx

Last year the times published at the Cheshire Cat were ride times, net of stops using the in&out mats at the feedstops.

They did publish all the splits, so it was possible to add them back up again and get the correct start-finish time.

I emailed the organiser and explained it, assuming it was a mistake, but he replied that that's the way they intended it, said something to the effect 'as that's the way most people want it'....

Err no it's not !
As Nick says above, most people 'going for a time' are trying to get around as quickly as possible, which includes minimising the time stopped, almost treating in the way triathletes view transitions, not stopping at each feedstop for 45mins rest.
Anyone simply wanting to get around can of course take their time, their challenging themselves in a different way - equally valid.

FWIW this is the only time I've ever seen such timing, only time I've ever seen in & out mats at feedstops to be able to give such splits.
Most sportives simply give you a start-finish time, frequently also with a timing mat going into or coming-out of each feedstop, so you get splits for each sector of the course, but including the stop times.

dabber

Thanks Andy. Your description of how things worked at the Cheshire Cat are similar to those that my friend had originally described to me (but I don't know which particular sportive he was talking about).
So it seems there may be some variance depending on the event.

It was good to see the previous comments on the awards systems used. That was another question in the back of my mind.

A further question I have (if I may???). If you have a registered entry do you just turn up, book in then go off (within the start time window) or in some events do they group together a number of riders who then sort themselves out depending on ability as to whether they start riding together. I ask as it is likely I would be entering on my own with no riding buddies.
Sorry for a lot of dumb questions but I haven't been able to find a lot on these types of conventions. I know the real answer is just to enter one and see for myself what happens.... bite the bullet.

vs

They usually fit one of 4 types.

1 100's of riders starting 2-5 minutes apart in groups of around 50 - usually causes bottlenecks on small roads and narrow hills with faster riders trying to pass slower ones. These have a sense of occasion but I just find them too big. (Wessex, Dragon, Beast etc)

2 100 - 200 riders starting at the same time or in 2 groups (Dartmoor, Exmoor, Black Rat etc) by far my favourite type of sportive, if you ride at the front you know you're probably the fastest - not that it's a race but still nice to know.

3 Riders turning up, registering and just setting off (I've did one or two in mid Wales like this Trans Cambrian/Devil?) It creates no sense of occasion - my least favourite.

4 Riders given a group to start in by stating a time they will finish in. Quite a few used to try this to stop the bottlenecks but I've not done one of these for ages.

Buckled_Rims

Dabber wrote:

A further question I have (if I may???). If you have a registered entry do you just turn up, book in then go off (within the start time window) or in some events do they group together a number of riders who then sort themselves out depending on ability as to whether they start riding together. I ask as it is likely I would be entering on my own with no riding buddies.
Sorry for a lot of dumb questions but I haven't been able to find a lot on these types of conventions. I know the real answer is just to enter one and see for myself what happens.... bite the bullet.

There's usually a "recommended" window of time to set off. But some sportives are more flexible. The longer ride (100+ miles) tend to start off first early, then the middle distance an hour or so later. You decide when you want to go, which is either by yourself or will have to start as a small group - you'll be informed.

So another example would be:

100+ route starts between 07:00 to 08:00am
60 mile route 08:00 to 09:00am
30 mile anytime after 09:00am
HQ closes at 18:00pm

You receive info like that in your email confirmation. But many tend to be flexible. if you start a 100 mile and have stomach cramp you can just do the 60 instead (but read the info pack from the organisers).

The main point you need to know is when the check points close if you want to start late.

andy_wrx

Seldom are events a bunch start (ie. everyone all going off together in an enormous group), as it causes issues with traffic (the Brian Robinson Challenge does this, but then the start is on a road closed temporarily for the start)

Most events simply say 'between 8:00 and 9:00' or something and you can start any time between.
Only a very few bigger ones do actually give you a specific personal start time slot of say 8:35.

British Cycling guidance is that people should be set-off in small groups (I think it's actually 20 ?), so some sportives do that, you just get to the start line when you're ready and they batch you up into a group of 20 or so and then set you off together : if you're riding with mates, meet-up before the start and just ensure you're all together, they're usually flexible if that makes the batch 21 or 22 rather than split you up.

Other smaller events are just set-off when you feel like and people go off singly or in dribs&drabs : but as vs says above, it can reduce the sense of doing the event if you set-off on your own.

Incidentally, British Cycling guidance is also that there's a stiff hill shortly after the start, or as soon as practicable, so that the start groups are broken-up : to minimise traffic disruption, they want people broken-up singly or in small groups rather than riding around the course in big chaingangs.

If you're doing the sportive on your own, to me it's part of the fun to group-up with other people : you'll maybe see other people around you who are going at your pace, form into groups and then break-up again as maybe some of you will be faster on the flat and others on hills or you split up at foodstops.
If you're going for a time you'll find faster groups passing you and you can tag on with them for a bit, if they're too fast you fall off and hopie there's another one coming which is about the right speed - a group together will travel quicker than solo riders.

Of course you have to allow for the fact, particularly on the bigger popular sportives, that some of these may be novice riders unused to riding in groups, so their groupride skills can be shocking...

dabber

Really useful feedback from all of you. I appreciate you taking the time. I've a lot better idea of what to expect now. A very useful site.

Buckled_Rims

Dabber wrote:

Really useful feedback from all of you. I appreciate you taking the time. I've a lot better idea of what to expect now. A very useful site.

Here's a brief schedule as I've nothing else to do at the mo

1. Sign up for a Sportive and then receive details either by email or info pack by post.
2. Print or write your details on a small bit of paper.
3. Arrive at sportive, park your car. Find out where HQ is.
4. Either get dressed and take bike to HQ (careful as you may have to leave your bike outside unlocked!) or just go into the HQ then return to car.
5. Confirm yourself in the HQ and you'll receive a timing necklace or wrist band. Also, you'll get a handlebar race number and cable ties plus a small map, and emergency phone details.
6. Go to start line and check your bike, zero in computer etc. GO! GO! GO!
7. Follow route signs (if you can spot them)
8. Arrive at checkpoint and get your timing recorded. Usually a guy or gal is waiting in the middle of the road.
9. Eat sausage rolls.
10. GO! GO! GO! for next section ....
11. Finish line. get final timing recorded.
12. Either go to car and get changed, eat drink or go straight to HQ.
13. Enter HQ and present necklace or band.
14. You'll recieve a timing ticket and any goodies.
15. Go home and wait for sportive website update to see if there's any pictures and see everyone elses times.

Heckler1974

Buckled_Rims wrote:

15. Go home and wait for sportive website update to see if there's any pictures and see everyone elses times.

Then spend next few weeks agonising that if you'd spent less time at the feed stop and therefore taken five minutes less in total you'd be 10/20/30 places further up the placings... :roll:

dabber

Buckled_Rims wrote:

Here's a brief schedule as I've nothing else to do at the mo

1. Sign up for a Sportive and then receive details either by email or info pack by post.
2. Print or write your details on a small bit of paper.
.......................................
15. Go home and wait for sportive website update to see if there's any pictures and see everyone elses times.

Now why do I think the p*ss taking is beginning??? :oops:

btw, should I go to the bog before starting just joking... honest!

Cheers

brin

As it will be your 1st sportive, best advised to time it yourself, then you have a standard to aim for if you do it again the following year. As posted, different events have different timing procedures, but the majority use the start - finish option. been on a few where they do time splits at the feed stops, but the actual time of your stop was not taken into consideration when the results were published.
Me and my mate done a 100m sportive other month, i arrived back to finish, got changed, had a drink (non alcoholic) then my mate pulled up some 15mins later, when results were published he had finished 12 mins before me, was going to inform organiser to correct it, but thought best not to bother as i knew the time it had taken me.
But it is right when you see results you think, "now if i only stopped there for 5 mins instead of 10........"