A bike like the Ellsworth Evolve

GyatsoLa

I was doing some bike touring over the autumn through the Rockies and, of course, taking advantage of the incredible local trails. Most small towns had bike shops which did rental/trial bikes so as I'm hoping to buy a short to medium travel dual sus bike next spring, I took the opportunity to try out a variety of bikes to see what suited me. Up to now I've only ridden singlespeeds and hard tails so I've not really known what to look for in a dual suss, except that I know I'm not into hard core jumps so short travel would suit. I'd most likely use it for long all day trail riding, nothing super technical or hard core.

Anyway, typically, the bike that I fell in love with was by far the most expensive - a high spec XC Ellesworth Evolve (29er). It has an aggressive geometry (the saddle felt very 'forward' to me) which I thought I'd hate, but after an hours riding I loved. The spec went for lightweight over robustness - Fulcrum wheels, Sram 9.0, DT Swiss fork, etc. It climbed brilliantly, felt like a taut hardtail over light stuff, but soaked up rougher stuff beautifully. There is a picture of it in my blog here:

http://downthegreatdivide.wordpress.com ... -new-bike/

The problem of course is that ordering one here (I'm in Ireland) would be very expensive. I've a good relationship with my LBS so I'm sure I can get a discount, but only for a mainstream brand, not a special import. So I can only really afford an off the peg bike.

So my question is, what would be the nearest I could get to the Evolve in feel and handling from one of the big brands? I've been looking at the 29er versions of bikes like the Giant Trance or Trek Fuel, but no local shops have them in stock so I can't try them out. Any suggestions? [/img]

joshtp

perhaps a slightly longer travel 26'er... it will feel similar in terms of comfort, but will be allot cheaper and may be more manoeuvrable, and will certainly be easier to get hold of! Maybe a Trek Fuel EX, (120mm 130mm front) or something a bit like that... there are loads of brands that make nice ones... the new Specialized Camber looks to be a good bet. Rose make some nice bikes in that category too. Though if you have a big budget as your consideration of the Ellsworth would suggest then you may find a smaller brand like Whyte is offering what you want, with a bit more exclusivity to boot. The Whyte E120 is very good.

Alternatively you could up the travel a bit more again, to something like 130-140mm and really hammer the "gnarly" stuff. In this bracket there are loads of awesome options. Again, going with the big brands the Trek Remedy and Spech' Stumpjumper are awesome, if a little "common" The brand new Whyte 146 looks lovely, and the Mondraker Foxy ( I think, it may be a dif model) is great. Again, Loads of brands make top bikes in this category, and its a case of preference as to what you get. SantaCruz make top kit too.

If you really are hung up about the whole 29'er thing, then I cant offer too much help, as I know really very little. But Niner are a brand worth checking out, and SantaCruz make some nice bikes with big wheels.

Shaggy_Dog

Do you have a budget in mind? What are the trails like where you live?

GyatsoLa

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm not hung up on it being a 29er, although I did really like the way the 29ers I tried rolled - they were definitely more comfortable on some types of surfaces. Its feel of that bike I'm looking for - aggressive, taut and quite short in the top tube (or at least, thats what it felt like to me). Most of the longer travel bikes I tried (like a very nice Specialized Stumpjumper FS), just felt too soggy for me - I'm used to hardtails.

Shaggy, I'm not sure of the budget yet - probably around £2 -2.5k, but I'd go higher if it was worth it. Locally, my trails (in the Wicklow Mountains) are firetracks and forest roads. But I'd hope to be hopping over regularly to do the trail centers in north Wales. Maybe also a little light multi-day off road touring, like the C2C.

dan1502

This seems like an excellent deal for a RIP 9

http://www.29squadron.com/product.php?id_product=15

It almost made me reconsider my tallboy frame purchase but I got a fantastic deal on that too.

Just to add that you could build that up to an excellent spec within your budget if you take advantage of some of the deals on parts available. I've just pretty much finished ordering bits for my build so could give you some tips if needs be.

Shaggy_Dog

Do you mean aggressive in terms of downhill ability or fast handling?

GyatsoLa

Shaggy, by aggressive I mean it had a very 'head down' type geometry - more XC racer than an all round bike I think (but I haven't ridden enough different bikes to really tell). Hard to describe as I'd never been on a bike that felt like it. The seat tube had a very shallow angle so I felt I was almost directly over the BB, with more weight than usual on my arms - but as the top tube was quite short it felt ok. When I first got on the bike I thought 'this is all wrong', but the guys in the shop persuaded me to stick with it. After an hour it felt absolutely natural.

Just to give a comparison, my regular mtbs are is an On One Inbred and a Kona Unit (singlespeed), and I tried out various Specialized and Rocky Mountain bikes, plus a few more obscure brands like a Vicious Cycles dual susser. I prefer the shorter top tube of the Kona to the longer Inbred.

dan, that frame does look good - I don't know much about the brand.... And yes, a build up would make sense too, especially as I have funny taste in bars (I prefer bars with a sweep back).

dan1502

If you're considering a full suspension 29er then the best options are probably Niner Jet 9, Niner RIP 9, Ellsworh Evolve, Pivot Mach 429 and Santa Cruz Tallboy.

The Tallboy is out of your stated price range but is what I decided on. The RIP 9 is supposed to be a fanatastic bike and had I not got my heart set on the Tallboy by the time I saw that deal I would have snapped it up as I've seen them go for that or more second hand.

The Jet 9 is more xc based with less travel than the RIP 9. I think the RIP 9 is 5" travel. If you look at comparisons vs the Elllsworth I would say the RIP 9 wins. If you look at the Tallboy vs the RIP 9 then the arguments go on and on and on but I've not heard of anyone unhappy with either and the tallboy is a carbon frame so lighter but much more expensive.

I'm going for Fox Talas forks which are adjustable on the fly between 95mm and 120 mm so I can set if up to be slacker and more travel or tighter and more race like.

If I were you I would snap one of those frames up quickly. I've been researching and shopping around for ages and could let you know the deals I've found. Niner are 29er specialists by the way with a great reputation. You could get to demo one but I wouldn't hang around and it's a bit naughty doing that then buying elsewhere. I did try a tallboy at Stif cycles but was considering buying from them until the deal I found came my way.

MTBR have loads of discussions/reviews on the above as does 29 inches website

Shaggy_Dog

The only full suss 29er I know of within your price bracket is the Rumblefish. A fantastic bike but not exactly racerboy in terms of cockpit. No offence intended but you do seem to be contradicting yourself, you say you like a racy position but don't like a long top tube, surely the two go hand in hand? I like a long top tube but a short stem and low bars, something that I find hard to get. Most size large frames have the long top tube but are too tall on the head tube

GyatsoLa

dan, thanks for the link and your comments, very useful. I very nearly got my credit card out last night when I did some googling on that Niner frame, it looks a perfect bike. Pity I'm a 'Medium' sized and they don't have that on discount. But I'll certainly keep an eye out for them.

Shaggy - yes, you are right, its a bit contradictory. I'm no real expert on geometry, its hard to describe in words! As I said, most of the bikes Ive ridden in the past were quite neutral handling standard layout bikes, with the exception of my Inbred which has quite a long top tube (which I dislike). The Evolve just felt very different - my perception that it was short on top might be just down to the frame being on the smaller size for me. I just know that I felt pitched forward a little more on the saddle than I'm used to, but didn't feel too stretched out on top. It felt very odd, but once I got used to it, it worked exceptionally well. I've no idea if this is 'standard' on racy XC bikes because I've not ridden any before.

joshtp

maybe you just need a small bike with a long Seatpost?!

Shaggy_Dog

Baest on what you have said I'd look at the Kona Hei-Hei 29 or see if you can get yourself A Trek HiFi 29 sent over from the States, it's just an aluminium version of the Superfly 100, either that or go for the Rumblefish and get the bike shop to reduce the frok by 20mm, it's just a HiFI 29 with a longer fork with QR15, DRCV shock and an inline seatpost.

dan1502

Niner RIP 9 frame (RP23 shock) - £1,000
Fox F32 T120 mm fork - £450
XT 10 Speed Groupset - £330
Wheelset - Stans Arch, decent hubs - £350
Scwalbe Nobby Nic tyres x2 - £65
Brakes say £175
Grips - £12

Leaving £118 for bars, stem, seatpost and saddle for which you could easily get high quality second hand stuff which is the best thing to do whilst you work out the right fit.

Total build about £2,500 for a high spec fantastic build. Sorry, you'd need a headset too so maybe add another £75 but savings could be made to compensate.

The reason I suggest this is as he liked the Ellsworth so much and the RIP 9 is supposed to be similar but better and at the price of that offer is a safer place to put your money in my opinion.

GyatsoLa

Cheers guys, this has all been very helpful.

I'll have a word with my LBS about GF bikes. I assume any Trek dealer can get them, but I've not seen them in the shops here. I doubt I'd get a discount on one as they are not so common, but I'll have a word with them. Unfortunately, due to their rarity here I doubt if they'll get one in for me to try without a commitment to buy (although the nice thing about a recession is that shops tend to be a little more accommodating).

dan, you've pretty much sold me on the Niner RIP - Looks very similar to the Evolve but a much nicer paintjob - but the full price is a bit much for me so I'll keep a check out over the next month or so to see if I can get a Medium frame reduced (that website only has L and XL on the sale price). I like the idea of building one up too, give me something to do in the spring until some nice weather arrives.

Shaggy_Dog

I've ridden the JET 9, not really long enough to get a comprehensive opinion of it but initial feeling was that it isn't something I'd like to race XC on. Even though it had a pretty light build kit, it didn't feel more sprightly than, say a 140mm (26" wheeled) full susser. It did bomb through stuff in a straight line but suffered from the 29er effect of having canal boat handling. I can't help but imagine that the RIP will be more of the same. The Rumblefish on the other hand has excellent handling, feels reasonably fast underfoot and aside from downhill bikes, descends better than any other bike I have ever ridden, and I have ridden a lot of trail bikes. That said, it's not going to be much like the Evolve.

Is there an Evans reasonably close to you? With a refundable £50 deposit you can view and test ride any bike they have in stock, but only on-road.

GyatsoLa

Thanks shaggy, no, unfortunately I don't live near an Evans (I'm in Dublin). The only 29er in stock in any shop near me is a Giant Anthem. I wouldn't mind trying out a 29er and 'regular' with the same frame to see if it really was the big wheels that made it feel better for me, or it was the frame/geometry. I did ride other 29ers (a Spesh FSR) and I wasn't too enamored with it.

I guess I'll add the Rumblefish to the list of bikes I'll have a good look at next time I visit a big city with lots of bikeshops.