Race specific Training

ozzzyosborn206

16mm wrote:

adukeofkent wrote:

Here is a tip, dont compare yourself to Philippe Gilbert if you havent raced yet.


Sorry, bad day

Isn't everyone in a UK road race pretending they're Phillipe Gilbert? We're just playing at being pro, we just don't mention it out loud.

So get to a race and see what happens:-)

if only this were true races may be more aggressive think people want to be more like cav and gripel

Pross

jonmack wrote:

I think the only way i'm going to know what happens in a race is by actually doing one. My plan is turn up to one of the local races, enter, experience it, get my ass handed to me, go home and realise I need to triple my training to ever get out of cat 4, and repeat that until I get lucky enough to get a few top 10 finishes and get into cat 3.

That's the plan anyway...

I lack power in a big way (6ft1, 66kg), so although my build says climber, my body says rubbish at pretty much everything :P still, at 23 i'd like to think over the next few years I might actually get half decent at this and maybe win a few races. We'll see.

That's about the most realistic approach I've read!

OP, if you really fancing testing your climbing ability get a team together for the Ras de Cymru which is a 5 day stage race based in Newport and probably about as hilly a race as you will get as an amateur in the UK.

peejay78

racingcondor wrote:

This thread took a bit of a negative turn didn't it?

i think it's cos the chap seemed to imply he was pretty special on a bike, and yet hadn't actually ridden in a race. he may well be quite handy, but you don't know until you race.

nb: if you want something hilly try the hardriders series of TTs. they are over irregular distances and some of them are absolutely vile. none of this sitting in the bunch then dropping people on the climbs - you against the clock. race of truth.

nb2: if you want something even hillier then try the aptly name hillclimb season, culminating in the national championships, lots of spicy climbs in the westcountry, including several around bristol.

cyco2

Hi Buko,
To add to what has already been said.

For the winter.
If you like riding with your mates Gilbert style why don't you make it hard for yourself and fill up a saddle bag with bricks or bottles of water and see if you can ride them off then. Or when you get to the top turn around and go back down passed them coming up by some distance. Then see if you can beat them to the top again.
To toughen you up for circuit racing find a street circuit of not more than a 1/2 a mile and train to sprint out of every corner. You don't have to worry about riding fast because that is making it too hard. Do a set number of laps, say 10, where you sprint from each corner say for 20 revs..You need to establish a rhythm at first to attain knowledge about yourself. You may have to modify the numbers to always keep the quality of each sprint for each lap. This can be very painful. So, do some rest laps then do another 10 laps etc.. If you note these sessions and very gradually build on them you should then get some quality fitness without waiting to get to a race.
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Richa1181

Has anybody seen any of the trainright DVD's? They're basically spin classes tailored to specific goals, they do them for TT's, climbing, general fitness and a decent one for Criterium racing which is basically an hour of intervals aimed at producing multiple efforts without proper recovery time in between. Worth taking a look at if you're destined for the circuits..

bukowski102

peejay78 wrote:

racingcondor wrote:

This thread took a bit of a negative turn didn't it?

i think it's cos the chap seemed to imply he was pretty special on a bike







I didnt seem to imply anything I just like stomping over hills 'gilbert' styleee

good luck with building climbing power

bukowski102

cyco2 wrote:

Hi Buko,
To add to what has already been said.

For the winter.
If you like riding with your mates Gilbert style why don't you make it hard for yourself and fill up a saddle bag with bricks or bottles of water and see if you can ride them off then. Or when you get to the top turn around and go back down passed them coming up by some distance. Then see if you can beat them to the top again.
To toughen you up for circuit racing find a street circuit of not more than a 1/2 a mile and train to sprint out of every corner. You don't have to worry about riding fast because that is making it too hard. Do a set number of laps, say 10, where you sprint from each corner say for 20 revs..You need to establish a rhythm at first to attain knowledge about yourself. You may have to modify the numbers to always keep the quality of each sprint for each lap. This can be very painful. So, do some rest laps then do another 10 laps etc.. If you note these sessions and very gradually build on them you should then get some quality fitness without waiting to get to a race.
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thats great advice I will get to it when it becomes dryer around here

mclarent

racingcondor wrote:

Since you haven't done any racing yet I wouldn't worry about what you are good at. Go do some races (whatever you can get to easily) and see how they go.

For what it's worth I thought I was good at climbing until I raced, now I know I'm not great at anything (luckily also not bad at much).

+1!

Forget what I thought about my climbing, I used to think I could ride a bike...

peejay78

bukowski102 wrote:

peejay78 wrote:

racingcondor wrote:

This thread took a bit of a negative turn didn't it?

I didnt seem to imply anything I just like stomping over hills 'gilbert' styleee

good luck with building climbing power

fair enough, i've got quite a bit fo work to do. i'm aiming for top 20 at the nationals in 2011 , rather than top 25 i managed in 2010. it seems achievable, although as a benchmark the guy who came 20th was racing professionally all year, and three weeks prior rode the Tour of Britain. i guess that makes me pleased with the climbing power i've built up, and nervous about whether i can do any better on my limited means.

i would also like to win an open event, after lots of seconds and thirds last year. you have to have a goal. stomping gilbert-like over the hills is one. good luck.

bukowski102

peejay78 wrote:

bukowski102 wrote:

peejay78 wrote:

racingcondor wrote:

This thread took a bit of a negative turn didn't it?

I didnt seem to imply anything I just like stomping over hills 'gilbert' styleee

good luck with building climbing power

fair enough, i've got quite a bit fo work to do. i'm aiming for top 20 at the nationals in 2011 , rather than top 25 i managed in 2010. it seems achievable, although as a benchmark the guy who came 20th was racing professionally all year, and three weeks prior rode the Tour of Britain. i guess that makes me pleased with the climbing power i've built up, and nervous about whether i can do any better on my limited means.

i would also like to win an open event, after lots of seconds and thirds last year. you have to have a goal. stomping gilbert-like over the hills is one. good luck.

wow good going , dont know much about your level of riding but it sounds pretty high, Im gonna try and get out 3 or 4 times a week training from now including long steady rides, some interval work kind rce simulation on a 2 mile circuit......do you have any advice as to how i could prioritise my training racing starts in may
cheers

peejay78

in terms of level of riding, i'm a hill-climber. i can compete at a national level in this discipline. i'm behind the elite and professional riders - dan fleeman, dave clarke, rob gough, tejvan pettinger but not that far behind. over longer climbs i tend to do much better. i made it into a news article in the front pages of cycling weekly last season, which is my proudest moment yet.

generally, this is what i do over the course of a training block:

i aim to do 15 hours a week. this breaks down into 2 hours commuting a day, with one rest day, one loosener on saturday of around 20-30 miles and a longer ride on sunday of between 50 and 75, usually with 3-5 thousand feet of climbing. this is where i am right now.

i switch the rest days depending on how i feel and sometimes take monday and friday off. at the moment i'm focused on building up endurance and base miles after a few weeks off. i'll do that for a while now, through january, and into february. in practice the average speed always creeps up as i get fitter again.

in march i'll up the ante a bit and the pace, start to push it up and over the hills, work harder, ride with people at a similar level. i identify a hard week here and there and really go for it, then have a much lighter week afterwards. during my commutes i will be treating the three hills on the way home as intervals and really putting the hammer down.

in the 6 weeks prior to racing i will start training over race distance, at or close to race threshold. with four weeks to go i will up the intensity and do more interval work, along with specific training over distances and courses that i will be racing.

once the season starts i will lighten my training load a bit and aim to peak for specific races that i want to do well in and train like for like. i then have a hiatus of sorts, before picking it up in july and august for the hillclimb season which is my main goal. at which point i go totally crazy and don't eat and turn into some kind of utterly deranged hill-climbing monster.

hope this at least helpful in terms of suggesting a structure and the idea of building things up. what i will say is that you have to be disciplined, and when i drift is when i lack discipline.

dulldave

I wouldn't recommend waiting until May to race. If the race you want to be competitive in starts in May then use the races before this as training. In training you'll never be able to simulate the effort you're prepared to put in with a number pinned to your back.

peejay78 has kindly shared his training for this stage of the year but by the sounds of it, he's already quite an experienced racer.

Whereas you don't yet know what level you're at in terms of race ability. You could place in your first race or you could get dropped in the first 10 minutes. If you get dropped then regular racing as well as doing your training will help you improve. And you'll get to enjoy more races

Of course I may have read this wrong and you're in a part of the world where the 1st race available in in May. In which case ignore everything I just said.

maryka

dulldave wrote:

I wouldn't recommend waiting until May to race.

+1 to everything dulldave said.

Winter series races ARE training for most people, and it's a good opportunity to get out and hone your skills a bit before the really fit people start showing up in spring (though in cat 4 this may not matter so much).

There are quite a few races happening between now and early March when the road season really starts, all over the country. Have a look at the BC calendar and see what's close to you and give it a go if you can! The learning curve in the first few races is steep enough that it's worth getting a handle on it early if you aim to be serious about it later in the season. By May you could already be semi-experienced rather than a total newbie.

peejay78

agreed - i tend to start in mid march - using the earlyish races as training.

wearing the race number is hugely important in terms of giving you the psychological impetus to either train at race threshold - or work out whether you can do it or not, and if you can't, then you can work out what you need to do to get there.

i guess what i was trying to suggest was a sort of structure which can be compressed, extended, moved around a bit.

Mr Dog

Peejay - for a cyclist teetering on the edge of racing your post was a great source of information highlighting the periodization required for peak performance. If your not already you should be a coach. 8)

bukowski102

dulldave wrote:

I wouldn't recommend waiting until May to race. If the race you want to be competitive in starts in May then use the races before this as training. In training you'll never be able to simulate the effort you're prepared to put in with a number pinned to your back.

peejay78 has kindly shared his training for this stage of the year but by the sounds of it, he's already quite an experienced racer.

Whereas you don't yet know what level you're at in terms of race ability. You could place in your first race or you could get dropped in the first 10 minutes. If you get dropped then regular racing as well as doing your training will help you improve. And you'll get to enjoy more races

Of course I may have read this wrong and you're in a part of the world where the 1st race available in in May. In which case ignore everything I just said.

Thanks, I live in bristol and dont own a car, other earlier races are a bit too far for me so Im going for Castle combe summer series which starts in may. so will be training hard and may do a few tour sportives before. Just made a 1 mile course with corners and looking forward to training 1 hour constant efforts with accelerations out of corner and 2-300 metre sprints, I was out yesterday and a john deer tractor pulled out in front of me I proceeded to motorpace him at 33-34mph for about 5minutes that was fun.

cyco2

bukowski102 wrote:

Just made a 1 mile course with corners and looking forward to training 1 hour constant efforts with accelerations out of corner and 2-300 metre sprints, I was out yesterday and a john deer tractor pulled out in front of me I proceeded to motorpace him at 33-34mph for about 5minutes that was fun.

You may come unstuck with this kind of training because it cannot be measured and lacks discipline. What are you going to do if after 30mins. you're to tired to sprint any more, or you cannot keep up the pace.Also, it's absolutely essential that this type of training is only done when you are rested from any previous ride. The essence of this training is quality, it is Formula 1 stuff. If after a few timed circuits you're slowing down, pack it up and go home, otherwise you'll be training like a donkey.
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maryka

cyco2 wrote:

bukowski102 wrote:

Just made a 1 mile course with corners and looking forward to training 1 hour constant efforts with accelerations out of corner and 2-300 metre sprints, I was out yesterday and a john deer tractor pulled out in front of me I proceeded to motorpace him at 33-34mph for about 5minutes that was fun.

You may come unstuck with this kind of training because it cannot be measured and lacks discipline. What are you going to do if after 30mins. you're to tired to sprint any more, or you cannot keep up the pace..

Also, although that 1-hour workout may mimic some races (where you hang on for dear life throughout), most crits that I've done in the UK have a LOT of freewheeling between sprinting out of corners. It's difficult to mimic that by yourself as a) freewheeling feels like pootling, it's hard to let yourself do that, and b) freewheeling slows you down a lot when you're not in a 50-odd person pack.

So by all means work on sprints (as in 10-30 second efforts), but give yourself lots of recovery time between, a good 5 min where you are barely pedalling. Otherwise your sprints will not be top-end. Do steady-state work as a general fitness (threshold) builder, and do some "race attack" workouts or hill repeats to cover the middle of that -- something like a 10 second burst of speed, 2 min as hard as you can, 5 min steady effort, then 5 min recovery.

This is also why racing is training... just a lot easier to mimic race situations when you're in one!

bukowski102

maryka wrote:

cyco2 wrote:

bukowski102 wrote:

Just made a 1 mile course with corners and looking forward to training 1 hour constant efforts with accelerations out of corner and 2-300 metre sprints, I was out yesterday and a john deer tractor pulled out in front of me I proceeded to motorpace him at 33-34mph for about 5minutes that was fun.

You may come unstuck with this kind of training because it cannot be measured and lacks discipline. What are you going to do if after 30mins. you're to tired to sprint any more, or you cannot keep up the pace..

Also, although that 1-hour workout may mimic some races (where you hang on for dear life throughout), most crits that I've done in the UK have a LOT of freewheeling between sprinting out of corners. It's difficult to mimic that by yourself as a) freewheeling feels like pootling, it's hard to let yourself do that, and b) freewheeling slows you down a lot when you're not in a 50-odd person pack.

So by all means work on sprints (as in 10-30 second efforts), but give yourself lots of recovery time between, a good 5 min where you are barely pedalling. Otherwise your sprints will not be top-end. Do steady-state work as a general fitness (threshold) builder, and do some "race attack" workouts or hill repeats to cover the middle of that -- something like a 10 second burst of speed, 2 min as hard as you can, 5 min steady effort, then 5 min recovery.

This is also why racing is training... just a lot easier to mimic race situations when you're in one!

Thanks great advice, Im obviuosly not going to go full on for one hour but maybe, 1 lap with sprints then recovery then i lap constant effort and mix it up like that, one more
how does this plan look
monday- race simulation (hopefully with other riders2hr (1/2 hr warm up and down) sprints etc
Tues or wed steady2 hr ride easy with few efforts
thursday- race night
fri-zone 1/22hrs easy
sat-speed sprintswith recovery
sun-75%mhr constant effort 2 hr ride

cyco2

Your plan if you are comfortable with it is okay, only you can say because it does depend on the daily recovery quality as well. If you are with other riders try bit & bit with 3 riders then one hangs on and you're down to 2. See what effect that has on you. Adjust the lead time if going up hill or into a wind. Use your HR to tell you when to drop back. If you max out you may find it hard to get back on. Stop the rider going though to the lead from surging. Let the stronger riders do more. When I did this I found overtaking on the inside was safer and warn of cars behind.
Ride like a 3 up pursuit team. In harmony.
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maryka

bukowski102 wrote:

Thanks great advice, Im obviuosly not going to go full on for one hour but maybe, 1 lap with sprints then recovery then i lap constant effort and mix it up like that, one more
how does this plan look
monday- race simulation (hopefully with other riders2hr (1/2 hr warm up and down) sprints etc
Tues or wed steady2 hr ride easy with few efforts
thursday- race night
fri-zone 1/22hrs easy
sat-speed sprintswith recovery
sun-75%mhr constant effort 2 hr ride

Can't remember, have you joined a club? A weekly club chaingang or training ride with similarly-abilitied riders will be really good training -- certainly in the way you can push each other, but also in getting very comfortable with group riding, learning your limits and how to push them, refining your group/breakaway/chaingang/attacking skills and tactics. Very relevant for beginner road racers.

Many riders take one day a week fully off or very very easy. This is very personal of course so you'll have to work out for yourself how to incorporate recovery into your week.

I would not worry too much about sprint-specific work yet, I'd make sure your other fitness is there first. You'll get more mileage out of solid 1min-5min power than you will in having a great 10-25sec sprint. And you'll do a lot with 15-20 min steady/threshold intervals too. Sprint workouts are low on return for time investment -- the icing on the cake so to speak, so you need to have the cake there first! Also sprint speed and skills will come on fast so don't worry about doing a lot of that now until you're sure you have everything else covered (other than to drill good technique into yourself -- you can do this by sprinting at 80% max rather than all-out).

If you're going to be doing open road races, you'll need to do more than 2 hours in training. Most RRs are at least 50 miles so minimum 2hrs. You can build up your weekend rides to 3-4 hours over time, but don't feel you have to do them at a constant effort. Mix it up, take the hills hard, do some 15-20min threshold efforts into the wind, sprint for signs, etc.

ozzzyosborn206

how much racing are you able to do in your area? i would say for interval work use the turbo it is much safer and easier to do structured sessions, a speed set i have been doing recently which is rock hard is 10 mins warm up, then keeping same resistance and gear throughout that you can keep about 110 cadence is 1,2,1,2,3,2,1,2,3,4,3,2,1,2,3,4,5 mins of speed on with a minute of recovery in between each set maybe if you are just starting out only do 1 on, 1 off, 2 on ,1of, 3 on , 1 off, 4 on ,1 off, 5 on , 1off, 4 on, 1 off, 3 on, 1 off, 2 on,1 off,1 on sessions over. make sure you always have warm up and down before and after sessions. But racing is the best training and racing will tell you what you need to work on, you may think you are good at one thing come to a race and infact that is what you need to work on the most

peejay78

right now, i'd say get out and ride, and see what works for you.

your first season will change the way you do things anyway. it's such a learning curve.

the main issue for me was consistency.