Groupsets: How big a difference do they make?

Lillywhite

Simon E wrote:

So should I take everything they write as gospel?.

Of course you shouldn't. Look at what they're saying in any review and make your own judgement whether it be CW, C+, Which etc. etc.

That's what I did and I'm still happy with my choice of the Athena 11 speed.

ChrisSA

Also look at second hand costs. DA/Ultegra shifters can be easily had for under £100 a pair.

furrag

ChrisSA wrote:

Also look at second hand costs. DA/Ultegra shifters can be easily had for under £100 a pair.

Yup - I got my Ultegra shifters when I asked an Ebay seller for a buy it now of £60. I then sold my Sora shifters for £60. 8)

The difference between Sora and Ultegra is huge I found. The comfort of the shifters combined with the shifting. Most noticeably you have to tune Ultegra a lot less. With Sora's, it was always a constant fiddle.

After every single one of my 9 bikes I've ever had running Shimano, I made the jump to Campagnolo Centaur and back to thumb shifters which I had hang-ups about due to Sora. Completely different they were! Much easier to reach from the drops. Further to that, I found the shifting to be precise and effortless. I preferred Campagnolo that much more, I ordered 2011's Centaur for my Cervelo build.

nochekmate

ChrisSA wrote:

Also look at second hand costs. DA/Ultegra shifters can be easily had for under £100 a pair.

I would not agree that DA can EASILY be had for under £100 a pair. Once picked up a pair of DA7800 shifters (VGC) for £80, which was a bargain but I think that you will find that they don't usually go for less than £100.

www.bike24.com were until recently doing new Ultegra 6600 shifters for 129 Euros plus about £5 postage. Bought from them in the past - great service - but think that they have run out of stock of those now. Ultegra SL were quite cheap last time I looked - as they were with PlanetX

oldwelshman

I have 105 on winter bike and dura ace on two racing bikes, performance much the same, but overall wieght is different. My racing bike comes in at 6.7kg which you wont do with 105. But the weight is not that imprtant really, I just always fancied dura ace but for casettes always go for ultegra.
105 shifters and brakes are very good and very good gear changing.

Bozman

Weight? 3 bikes, 3 different groupsets. I've got Dura ace, ultegra 6600/dura ace 7800 mix and ultegra 6500. The 9 speed ultegra has never missed a beat and shifts so precise, to be honest its the pick of the bunch, it is the positive side of the winter bike and to me answers the question. It is nice to have the best, if you can afford it... buy it!

BBH

I am going to echo most of whats already been said. I have also come from a sora/tiagra mix and dislike every minute of it!! The constant readjustment after every ride or so is really annoying :evil:

My summer beauty has SRAM force and I’ve never looked back. The changing is a little noisy (if you want to call it that), but its really fast, smooth and accurate! The double tap took about 20mins and a few duff shifts to get used to it – but now it’s like second nature There is a reason most of the pro-tour bikes have SRAM!!

Ignore all the campy and shimano fans , SRAM all the way, you will never look back!!!!

stuaff

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

Thanks again guys. Some interesting thoughts there.

I was reading up on Campag Athena and, very good though the reviews are, it sounds like it requires a fair amount of looking after, which, to an amateur like me...

I should perhaps reiterate that I am not talking about anything of a lower quality than 105. SRAM perhaps?

Athena on my Viner since June, zero fettling required so far after many miles' use. Others' experience may vary, of course.

jimwin

Lillywhite wrote:

Simon E wrote:

So should I take everything they write as gospel?.

Of course you shouldn't. Look at what they're saying in any review and make your own judgement whether it be CW, C+, Which etc. etc.

That's what I did and I'm still happy with my choice of the Athena 11 speed.

And so am I Great groupset for reasonable money and have it on 2 of my 3 bikes. Well over 2000 miles this year with no trouble.

- JimW

jonny_trousers

BBH wrote:

There is a reason most of the pro-tour bikes have SRAM!!

Ignore all the campy and shimano fans , SRAM all the way, you will never look back!!!!

I did recently see a still from a TdF lineup and every single rider looked to be running SRAM.

flasher

BBH wrote:

There is a reason most of the pro-tour bikes have SRAM!!

Ignore all the campy and shimano fans , SRAM all the way, you will never look back!!!!

Yes, because as an emerging road manufacturer they pay huge amounts of money to get their products used :roll:

jonny_trousers

Flasher wrote:

BBH wrote:

There is a reason most of the pro-tour bikes have SRAM!!

Ignore all the campy and shimano fans , SRAM all the way, you will never look back!!!!

Yes, because as an emerging road manufacturer they pay huge amounts of money to get their products used :roll:

That makes sense.

BBH

Flasher wrote:

BBH wrote:

There is a reason most of the pro-tour bikes have SRAM!!

Ignore all the campy and shimano fans , SRAM all the way, you will never look back!!!!

Yes, because as an emerging road manufacturer they pay huge amounts of money to get their products used :roll:

True. However, I think that the above applies to most manufacturers out there. The kit is fairly light and must be good enough for the pros to want to continue using it for the uptake to be so good. Many of the bikes at this years tour series also seemed to have at least SRAM force, if not red (although the numbers were lower than the pro tour), therefore there must be something in using SRAM?

Bozman

+1 to Flasher. It's all down to brown envelopes and free stock and back-up. Sram make money from joe public, the public buy what they see being used, just look at Red Bull and Monster energy drinks, spend millions on sponsership to make billions.
If Mr Pro had to buy his own equipment, do you really think that he'd waste money on a Trek or Specialized bike with a sram groupset? would he b******s, he'd be riding a european frame with a Shimano or Campag groupset!

P_Tucker

Contador would win the Tour with Tiagra. That's all you need to know really.

Garz

P_Tucker wrote:

Contador would win the Tour with Tiagra. That's all you need to know really.

Just ship in the meat or other products that really make the difference!

dreamlx10

To put the cat amongst the pidgeon

What's his name "Walter" ?

ratsbeyfus

P_Tucker wrote:

Contador would win the Tour on Viagra. That's all you need to know really.

Fixed that for you.

milese

I upgraded some bits from 105 to Ultegra, and the difference wasn't noticable to the naked eye.

105 is plenty good enough for 99%.

kayakerchris

the whole thing of what is on the bike is very interesting. I have a Boardman Team C bought June 09. My first proper road bike. So I took the claim to have SRAM Rival as true.

Come the following spring the bottom bearing was making a noise so i took it apart, lo and behold it was a Rival crank but the bearing was some japanese no name, New bearing (SRAM) and force crank (because I wanted to) and I really noticed a difference.

Doing some hills and wanted to swap the cassette to a 28. Again not a SRAM cassette.

The brakes are not SRAM either.

I changed the derailleur to Force when an accident damaged the original and yes the shifting is cleaner and the springs are a bit stronger giving a good feel to the shift. So I suspect most of us would notice an upgrade on a £1000 bike to the full matching groupset. Would we notice a change from full groupset to the next full groupset, both perfectly set up? Probably not.

jonmack

kayakerchris wrote:

I have a Boardman Team C bought June 09. My first proper road bike. So I took the claim to have SRAM Rival as true.

Come the following spring the bottom bearing was making a noise so i took it apart, lo and behold it was a Rival crank but the bearing was some japanese no name, New bearing (SRAM) and force crank (because I wanted to) and I really noticed a difference.

Doing some hills and wanted to swap the cassette to a 28. Again not a SRAM cassette.

The brakes are not SRAM either.

Did you check the spec before you bought it?

http://www.boardmanbikes.com/road/road_team_carbon.html

Doesn't claim to have Rival brakes, chain, or cassette.

Brakes Lightweight R580
Cassette Shimano CS-5600 12-25T
Chain Shimano CN-5600

Looking at my TC the BB is a SRAM GXP, but I don't expect it to have SRAM branded bearings, doesn't surprise me they're no-name japanese bearings...

rake

the cranks arent rival like you say, they are sram s350 but still good.
i was wondering how do you know the bearings are japanese if they are 'no name'.
if they are poor quality it surprises they could save any money, because sram bearing size is not an off the shelf standard size, and would have to have them specifically made.
ive read where cycle specific bearings are only mid quality at best on any make or series groupset.

uphillbothways

A couple of hundred grams. Sora is a bit of a faff, Tiagra is good, 105 is basically Dura-Ace but made with cheaper materials.