Trucks out of city centres

White Horse

Jeremy Vine is about to do a feature on getting trucks out of city centres to save the lives of cyclists. His show is on Radio 2 now.

Get phoning in so the show isn't taken over by idiots saying that cyclists should get off the road etc, etc.

rodgers73

They used to be banned from centres but the rules were changed in the 80s.

keefsloan

If you're on two wheels (cycle / motorbike) then you need to be careful and ride defensively, not aggressively and without due care and attention to other road users. If you run red lights without even waiting to see if there's anything coming then I'm afraid that you're asking to get t-boned by a car (or "clotheselined" by a pedestrian when you just miss taking them out at a crossing). If you undertake trucks and buses then understand that they have limited vision and don't put yourself in harms way. Or do. It's up to you. IMHO If you don't get the basics of self-preservation when you're on two wheels then you don't belong on two wheels. There's no blame when you're sliding down the road on your arse after hitting (or being hit) by another vehicle, just pain. Two wheels will always end up worse when in an altercation with four. Besides which, I don't need (or want) the state to "protect" me from trucks in city centres thankyouverymuch in the same way that I don't want the state to "protect" me from what I can see, hear and do as a voting and consenting adult (within reason, of course). I'll make my own decisions on the road where it comes to my safety. If I decide to do something stupid (and we've all been there!) then I accept the risks and the consequences and fully understand that it's no-ones fault but mine. End of.

spen666

rodgers73 wrote:

They used to be banned from centres but the rules were changed in the 80s.

think that was only in the GLC area and then only at certain times

jonny_trousers

keefsloan wrote:

If you're on two wheels (cycle / motorbike) then you need to be careful and ride defensively, not aggressively and without due care and attention to other road users. If you run red lights without even waiting to see if there's anything coming then I'm afraid that you're asking to get t-boned by a car (or "clotheselined" by a pedestrian when you just miss taking them out at a crossing). If you undertake trucks and buses then understand that they have limited vision and don't put yourself in harms way. Or do. It's up to you. IMHO If you don't get the basics of self-preservation when you're on two wheels then you don't belong on two wheels. There's no blame when you're sliding down the road on your ars* after hitting (or being hit) by another vehicle, just pain. Two wheels will always end up worse when in an altercation with four. Besides which, I don't need (or want) the state to "protect" me from trucks in city centres thankyouverymuch in the same way that I don't want the state to "protect" me from what I can see, hear and do as a voting and consenting adult (within reason, of course). I'll make my own decisions on the road where it comes to my safety. If I decide to do something stupid (and we've all been there!) then I accept the risks and the consequences and fully understand that it's no-ones fault but mine. End of.

This topic would probably receive more attention in 'commuting chat', but anyway. I actually think the above statement makes a lot of sense. I should say why, but I don't have the time right now. Will add more later.

jeremyrundle

Some people here have said that headcams are pointless and a waste of time.

A month ago I had a Boots lorry come so close it is a wonder he didnt hit me, I complained, the driver denied it, I sent the VIDEO, a months later I received today a written apology and £40 of boots vouchers I have passed to a local charity.

TODAY another lorry pulled out when I was on a roundabout, I complained to the company he denied it, i sent the VIDEO, another apology and a sudden change in the drivers story.

If all cyclists did what I do drivers would have to take notice or be unemployed.

These are two drivers who have taken note, also the manager of the driver today has emailed a copy of my video to ALL drivers in the distribution network telling them to "pay attention" as cyclists are "preparing themselves".

IT WORKS.

Tonymufc

keefsloan wrote:

If you're on two wheels (cycle / motorbike) then you need to be careful and ride defensively, not aggressively and without due care and attention to other road users. If you run red lights without even waiting to see if there's anything coming then I'm afraid that you're asking to get t-boned by a car (or "clotheselined" by a pedestrian when you just miss taking them out at a crossing). If you undertake trucks and buses then understand that they have limited vision and don't put yourself in harms way. Or do. It's up to you. IMHO If you don't get the basics of self-preservation when you're on two wheels then you don't belong on two wheels. There's no blame when you're sliding down the road on your ars* after hitting (or being hit) by another vehicle, just pain. Two wheels will always end up worse when in an altercation with four. Besides which, I don't need (or want) the state to "protect" me from trucks in city centres thankyouverymuch in the same way that I don't want the state to "protect" me from what I can see, hear and do as a voting and consenting adult (within reason, of course). I'll make my own decisions on the road where it comes to my safety. If I decide to do something stupid (and we've all been there!) then I accept the risks and the consequences and fully understand that it's no-ones fault but mine. End of.

Well said that man.

spen666

keefsloan wrote:

If you're on two wheels (cycle / motorbike) then you need to be careful and ride defensively, not aggressively and without due care and attention to other road users. If you run red lights without even waiting to see if there's anything coming then I'm afraid that you're asking to get t-boned by a car (or "clotheselined" by a pedestrian when you just miss taking them out at a crossing). If you undertake trucks and buses then understand that they have limited vision and don't put yourself in harms way. Or do. It's up to you. IMHO If you don't get the basics of self-preservation when you're on two wheels then you don't belong on two wheels. There's no blame when you're sliding down the road on your ars* after hitting (or being hit) by another vehicle, just pain. Two wheels will always end up worse when in an altercation with four. Besides which, I don't need (or want) the state to "protect" me from trucks in city centres thankyouverymuch in the same way that I don't want the state to "protect" me from what I can see, hear and do as a voting and consenting adult (within reason, of course). I'll make my own decisions on the road where it comes to my safety. If I decide to do something stupid (and we've all been there!) then I accept the risks and the consequences and fully understand that it's no-ones fault but mine. End of.

So you'd be quite hapy for there to be no laws relating to how trucks are driven in cities?

I think you would find that you would not be able to ride your bike without the state protecting you. Imahgine lorries not subject to speeding laws, not having to stop at red lights, not liable for injuries or damage caused in accidents - think again.

Yolu may not want additional laws, but are you really saying you do not want the protection you already have.


PS I have worked it out- you are a turkey and this sentence is your vote for Christmas. :oops:

jeremyrundle

Tonymufc wrote:

keefsloan wrote:

If you're on two wheels (cycle / motorbike) then you need to be careful and ride defensively, not aggressively and without due care and attention to other road users. If you run red lights without even waiting to see if there's anything coming then I'm afraid that you're asking to get t-boned by a car (or "clotheselined" by a pedestrian when you just miss taking them out at a crossing). If you undertake trucks and buses then understand that they have limited vision and don't put yourself in harms way. Or do. It's up to you. IMHO If you don't get the basics of self-preservation when you're on two wheels then you don't belong on two wheels. There's no blame when you're sliding down the road on your ars* after hitting (or being hit) by another vehicle, just pain. Two wheels will always end up worse when in an altercation with four. Besides which, I don't need (or want) the state to "protect" me from trucks in city centres thankyouverymuch in the same way that I don't want the state to "protect" me from what I can see, hear and do as a voting and consenting adult (within reason, of course). I'll make my own decisions on the road where it comes to my safety. If I decide to do something stupid (and we've all been there!) then I accept the risks and the consequences and fully understand that it's no-ones fault but mine. End of.

Well said that man.

I assume you wear a seat belt when you drive, state legislation that saves lives!

Tonymufc

I think his point was merely stating that he doesn't think that trucks should be taken out of city centres. Take one truck of the road and replace it with several smaller ones that potentially could be driven by w*****s and thus increasing the chances of an accident happening. Why not remove white van man from city centres? And whilst you're at it remove the buses, taxis, trams and lets get rid of the peds as well then we can have the road all to ourselves. Get real people, trucks are the life blood of the modern world and without them the country couldn't survive. End of! We ALL need to learn how to co-exist. It is possible. With good drivers and less cycling Hitlers then it could really work.

Berk Bonebonce

See here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/b ... t-cyclists

Trucks with high cabs have been implicated in the deaths of cyclists.

jeremyrundle

Cycling Hitlers, what an absolutely filthy and disgusting phrase, how dare you even think of comparing decent cyclists who simply complain about lorry drivers and van men with a murderer who slaughhtered millions of innocent men women and children in concentration camps and gas chambers during the second world war.

Perhaps you need to consider your comparisons and words more before you speak. My father like many lost his brother in the war, thank you. There are people who would be offended by this comparison.

The Rookie

While not supporting the 'Hitlers' comment...

I agree with most on this post, its wholly unrealistiv to ban HGV's from city centres, it's also not desireable as they will simply be replaced with lots of smaller vehicles.

Poor driving is poor driving, poor riding is also poor riding, the truckers owe us a duty of care in the way we drive, but we also owe ourselves that same duty of care, perhaps some decent public information type work for the less 'aware' cyclist to explain why trucks are such a risk would be beneficial, its not hard with a little awareness to stop yourself being left hooked, and many cyclists put themselves into the position of danger though their own stupidity or ignorance.

As for the article
"Dennis Putz, 51, was over the legal drink drive limit when he hit City public relations director Catriona Patel, 39, as he accelerated away from a set of traffic lights outside Oval tube station in south London."
Why not ban drunk drivers first, oh we have.....it was being drunk that was the issue, not what he was driving!

Simon

jeremyrundle

I am sorry if I went a little overboard but when refering to things like Hitler there are some of us that are of the age we have memories people young and make such posts do not.

White Horse

Just to clarify, I don't actually support the point that was put forward by the guy on the radio. He was a bit of a wet lettuce to be honest. The first caller came on and said "How about banning cyclists as they don't pay for the upkeep of the roads?" and he couldn't answer it despite claiming to be a cyclist.

A call for people to phone in was really just to stop the usual anti-cycling nonsense being spouted. Maybe if someone had gone on and said "that's not the issue, mate. The issue is to get EVERYONE using the roads properly and with consideration for others" it would have put cyclists in a good light.

The guy being interviewed even said "Well, some cyclists are not as smart as you Jeremy" in response to "Why don't cyclists just NOT go up the left of a truck?" Unfortunately a pro-cycling campaigner didn't appear to have a particularly well thought out idea which may have re-enforced Daily Mail stereotypes.

yagamuffin

White Horse wrote:

Just to clarify, I don't actually support the point that was put forward by the guy on the radio. He was a bit of a wet lettuce to be honest. The first caller came on and said "How about banning cyclists as they don't pay for the upkeep of the roads?" and he couldn't answer it despite claiming to be a cyclist.

A call for people to phone in was really just to stop the usual anti-cycling nonsense being spouted. Maybe if someone had gone on and said "that's not the issue, mate. The issue is to get EVERYONE using the roads properly and with consideration for others" it would have put cyclists in a good light.

The guy being interviewed even said "Well, some cyclists are not as smart as you Jeremy" in response to "Why don't cyclists just NOT go up the left of a truck?" Unfortunately a pro-cycling campaigner didn't appear to have a particularly well thought out idea which may have re-enforced Daily Mail stereotypes.

He's right. Yes, the roads are full of crap drivers (most of them in my experience driving taxis) but there are just as many crap cyclists.
Take London today, the tube workers are striking so the roads are full or people who have dragged their old bike out of the shed and don't have a clue about safe defensive riding on busy roads.

Yes, lots of cycling deaths involve lorries. But is it solely the lorry drivers fault or can a lot be blamed on the cyclists too?

jeremyrundle

I rarely see another cyclist in Tavistock, most days I am the only one.

White Horse

yagamuffin wrote:

He's right. Yes, the roads are full of crap drivers (most of them in my experience driving taxis) but there are just as many crap cyclists.
Take London today, the tube workers are striking so the roads are full or people who have dragged their old bike out of the shed and don't have a clue about safe defensive riding on busy roads.

Yes, lots of cycling deaths involve lorries. But is it solely the lorry drivers fault or can a lot be blamed on the cyclists too?

I know that his quote was correct, but he came on to make a point and made it badly. Regular, every-day cycling gets little enough positive coverage as it is so I think his appearance on prime time national radio is not only an opportunity missed but an opportunity completely blown to pieces as he came on with the wrong argument and couldn't even defend his own position. Hence anyone listening is likely to still think "bloody cyclists!"

White Horse

jeremyrundle wrote:

I rarely see another cyclist in Tavistock, most days I am the only one.

That's because it's uphill if you want to go more than half a mile away from the High Street!

jonny_trousers

jeremyrundle wrote:

I am sorry if I went a little overboard but when refering to things like Hitler there are some of us that are of the age we have memories people young and make such posts do not.

You're old enough to remember the Second World War? Wow! Hats off to you for still riding, sir!

jeremyrundle

I did not say I was around in the war, I said there are some of us that have memories, i.e my father was still in the navy when I was young, having served during the war and he told me his experiences, such as being torpedoed twice on his frigate, and how his brother died in the Korean war.

However my father is 87 and rides the six mile round trip from Frimley to Camberley even now, &*^%*&*&* show off.

Tonymufc

Apologies if my using the term "cycling Hitlers" offended you, or anyone else for that matter that wasn't my intention and I accept that it was a bad phrase to use. I love my sport and past time of riding a bike. I ride everyday to and from work and in my spare time. However, I'm in the fortunate position of being able to see both sides of the argument as I'm a truck driver and nothing annoys me more than when I'm stereotyped by cyclists or anyone else as being a bad driver. like I said I can see it from both sides. Once again my sincere apologies to Jeremyrundle.

jonny_trousers

You shouldn't need to apologise Tony. It is perfectly acceptable to refer to people with dictatorial attitudes as being 'little Hitlers', and in doing so you are certainly not showing a lack of respect for those who suffered because of the Nazi regime. Your point was a perfectly good one and anyone with any sense of reason will understand that you meant no offence. In addition, to suggest you have a greater understanding of suffering simply because you were born closer to a historical event occurring is both ridiculous and patronising.

Back to the point: by all means ban bad truck drivers if you can (as well as bad motorists, bus drivers, cyclists and pedestrians for that matter), but it would be crazy to discriminate against an entire industry because of a relatively small number of idiots. Truck drivers may need better educating about the dangers they pose within towns and cities in just the same way that cyclists must learn how to look after themselves.

jeremyrundle

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

You shouldn't need to apologise Tony. It is perfectly acceptable to refer to people with dictatorial attitudes as being 'little Hitlers', .

Apology happily accepted with thanks.

And as for the above comment, I have as much right to be upset by the comment, which is why I think who I may upset before I speak, it is called forethought.