£50 Carbon Bars on eBay? Any good or Avoid???

Hurricane151

I have been looking for some Carbon Bars and i came accross these on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hylix-Carbon-road-bike-Handlebar-Bar-31-8-240g-Ergo-/270664340001?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f04da1221

My question is however, are these any good or should they be avoided. They are obviously not one of the recognised makes and for the price they seem too good to be true (which is never a good thing)

What your thoughts on these? worth a try or avoid at all costs???

Cheers

Gazzaputt

Bit on the lardy size weight wise.

jairaj

Im sure they are fine from a manufacturing point of view. they are probably made in the same factory and using the same processes as other more expensive brand names.

But the price isn't amazing, its coming in from abroad so you could get stung with import tax etc.. Im sure if you shop around you may find something in the sales for not that much more.

carrock

I'd avoid any carbon bars as they are expensive and have to be changed annually. And they are only grammes lighter than aluminium anyway.

Scrumple

carrock wrote:

I'd avoid any carbon bars as they are expensive and have to be changed annually. .

meh?

a_n_t

carrock wrote:

have to be changed annually.

pint of what he's drinking!

Anonymous

carrock wrote:

have to be changed annually.

Que?!?

The questions was about handlebars, not mistresses!

rolf_f

Scrumple wrote:

carrock wrote:

I'd avoid any carbon bars as they are expensive and have to be changed annually. .

meh?

I think he means bib shorts actually

milese

I think they look ok.

I made a 'best offer' of £$60 yesterday, and he has since come back with a counter offer of $73.

rolf_f

Gazzaputt wrote:

Bit on the lardy size weight wise.

5 grammes lighter than the Pro PLT alluminium compacts on my Look. Not worth the bother at that weight......

Pokerface

All carbon parts need to be replaced annually. Particularly frames and groupsets. FACT.


(Next time your missus gives you grief about your bike purchases, make sure to show her this thread.) 8)


As for the comment that sparked the controversy - it's not as far-fetched as it sounds. If you hammer your bars, I would think that it iS a good idea to replace them periodically. Carbon bars aren't really made to withstand the forces that CAN be placed on them for the long term. I think most pros use alu bars for this reason?

If you're just a leisure rider, your carbon bars will last longer than if you regularly are out of the saddle sprinting and wrenching them all over the place. I know I've cracked at least one set of carbon bars.

EKIMIKE

Go for it if you want but don't expect much, if anything in return.

There's still appears to be some industry confusion over carbon bars and particularly carbon stems. In terms of weight, carbon stems are mostly heavier than alu stems with carbon bars being slightly lighter than alu bars by maybe 10 or 15 grams. In terms of cost, carbon stems are usually double the cost of alu stems and bars are often twice, if not three times as expensive as alu bars. In terms of performance, well that's very subjective. Arguably carbon bars take out some of the road buzz but beyond that there's no real substantive claims out there for performance gains.

In fact if you look at alot of pro bikes, you'll see a surprising number of alu bar/stem combo's. I personally wouldn't trust carbon bars. Bars are one of the last things i'd want to break whilst riding. To be fair they don't have the best track record.

Cleat Eastwood

NapoleonD wrote:

carrock wrote:

have to be changed annually.

Que?!?

The questions was about handlebars, not mistresses!

Or underpants

TimoH

Pokerface wrote:

As for the comment that sparked the controversy - it's not as far-fetched as it sounds. If you hammer your bars, I would think that it iS a good idea to replace them periodically. Carbon bars aren't really made to withstand the forces that CAN be placed on them for the long term. I think most pros use alu bars for this reason?

What do you mean by "hammering"? Hitting the bars with a real hammer? To my knowledge, that's not normal use.

Proper carbon parts have been designed to withstand the load that can be placed on them in normal use. To my knowledge, carbon fiber suffers from fatigue far less than most metals. As long as you don't destroy it e.g. by crashing or by improper installation, it lasts "forever".

Of course, if there is a manufacturing error, a catastrophic failure can happen, even in normal use. However, that's a different story.

EKIMIKE

You say 'proper' carbon parts. That's very interesting. In fact if you look at most carbon handlebars and stems they're so ridiculously over engineered because it's not the ideal material for the job. Carbon can make good handlebars and stems, but don't expect much in return for the generally massive £ outlay.

EG Ritchey WCS alloy bars cost about £55

Ritchey WCS carbon bars cost about £215

The wieght difference is 10-15g max. Then you're into the subjective grounds of 'comfort' and 'stiffness'. Personally i can't see past the £££'s. Alloy bars everyday.

Carbon is great for Frames. Forks. Deep section wheels. Seatposts.
Not so great for Bars. Stems. Saddle rails. Spokes. Brakes.

I guess material suitability is best shown with cranks. Carbon simply isn't so great for cranks. Aluminium is. That's why Dura Ace, Rotor 3D, Cannondale Si SL cranks are universally regarded as the best on the market. Not that there's a shortage of carbon competition. Just alu is better for cranks.

TimoH

EKIMIKE wrote:

You say 'proper' carbon parts. That's very interesting. In fact if you look at most carbon handlebars and stems they're so ridiculously over engineered because it's not the ideal material for the job. Carbon can make good handlebars and stems, but don't expect much in return for the generally massive £ outlay.

Well... "proper" in this context means something that has been well designed, manufactured and tested. With carbon, it is easy to produce crap by cutting corners in any of these steps.

In the area of "value-for-money", alloy bars and especially stems are hard to beat. Carbon bars are a bit more comfortable than alloy bars and for that reason justifiable, especially if you ignore the significant price difference. Carbon stems in general are useless because they don't really save any weight nor provide any additional stiffness or comfort. Moreover, as you say, they have to be massively overengineered to be reliable.

EKIMIKE

Point being that 'proper' in this case means over-engineered and therefore costly.

Anyway, i appreciate your point of view. It's as valid as mine. I'm happy to differ. On the original subject of cheap carbon bars off eBay - don't waste your time OP. You can get top quality Alu bars for around £50 without the ambiguities.

Pokerface

TimoH wrote:

Pokerface wrote:

As for the comment that sparked the controversy - it's not as far-fetched as it sounds. If you hammer your bars, I would think that it iS a good idea to replace them periodically. Carbon bars aren't really made to withstand the forces that CAN be placed on them for the long term. I think most pros use alu bars for this reason?

What do you mean by "hammering"? Hitting the bars with a real hammer? To my knowledge, that's not normal use.

Proper carbon parts have been designed to withstand the load that can be placed on them in normal use. To my knowledge, carbon fiber suffers from fatigue far less than most metals. As long as you don't destroy it e.g. by crashing or by improper installation, it lasts "forever".

Of course, if there is a manufacturing error, a catastrophic failure can happen, even in normal use. However, that's a different story.

I suggest you do a little reading about the reliability of carbon bars. Bars and stem on a bike probably are subject to the most repeated stress of any parts - and in a small area. The point where the bars and stem come together is a small area and supports a great deal of weight - particularly when subjected to extra stress from out of the saddle efforts. Pulling and pushing over and over.

I use carbon bars and stem myself, but the forces at play in those areas mean they won't last as long as stronger materials or carbon in other parts of the bike.

milese

EKIMIKE wrote:

Point being that 'proper' in this case means over-engineered and therefore costly.

Anyway, i appreciate your point of view. It's as valid as mine. I'm happy to differ. On the original subject of cheap carbon bars off eBay - don't waste your time OP. You can get top quality Alu bars for around £50 without the ambiguities.

What lightweight alu bars for £50 would you recommend?

Anonymous

I'd recommend Deda Newton Shallows, I have them on both my road bikes and they are fab!

http://www.shinybikes.com/product.php?productid=16183 (not shown on the pic...) but the shallows look more like a classic bend, choose the anatomin option.

(Not my bike in case I get accused of showing off!)



3T make popular alloy bars too.

TimoH

Pokerface wrote:

I suggest you do a little reading about the reliability of carbon bars. Bars and stem on a bike probably are subject to the most repeated stress of any parts - and in a small area. The point where the bars and stem come together is a small area and supports a great deal of weight - particularly when subjected to extra stress from out of the saddle efforts. Pulling and pushing over and over.

I use carbon bars and stem myself, but the forces at play in those areas mean they won't last as long as stronger materials or carbon in other parts of the bike.

From the strength calculation point of view, handlbars are probably much easier components than e.g. seatposts. The amount of weight (and fluctuating stress) put frequently on a very small area of a seatpost is way higher than that put on a handlebar. If there was any chance of fatigue-induced failures for a seatpost, nobody would make them, for the pure reason of product safety.

In general, my view is that fatigue of material is not an issue with carbon fiber. If there was any general fatigue-related issues with any critical carbon component, there should be at least a warning in the product documentation. I have never seen any. Instead, poor production and quality control are very typical issues with low-cost carbon. The failures you refer to, very probably are all caused by poor design, production or quality control. A failed handlebar when riding out of saddle very probably means that the handlebar was never designed to withstand such load.

Getting back to the topic: 50£ carbon bar is something I would avoid. You can get a good one if you're lucky but you can also get a very bad one if you're even slightly unlucky. A good one probably lasts longer than the rest of your bike, but a bad one may fail catastrophically at any time, including your first ride. Manufacturing process and quality control must be in good shape when making such critical parts as handlebars. Some missing resin or some gas bubbles between the carbon layers may destroy the strength of the component completely.

TimoH

EKIMIKE wrote:

Point being that 'proper' in this case means over-engineered and therefore costly.

That's the case, especially with stems. Carbon bars are probably a bit easier to design and make, but there still isn't too much room for error.

Anyway, i appreciate your point of view. It's as valid as mine. I'm happy to differ. On the original subject of cheap carbon bars off eBay - don't waste your time OP. You can get top quality Alu bars for around £50 without the ambiguities.

Agree 100%

EKIMIKE

Deda Newtons - good shout. Although they probably don't come out as 209g on your scales unless they're bought from Deda too. :roll: Nevertheless light and strong bars.

Ritchey WCS Alu products are also great quality and fairly light:

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... ITCHBAS300

These look good too:

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... ASTHBAS200

Really, it's no myth - Alu bars can be made light and strong and most importantly probably won't fail if you rode them for the next 50 years. Maybe give it 5-10 years and carbon bars will have an equal reputation but for now they're very new to production and don't have the best track record.

springtide9

There are not any fatigue issues with carbon.

FYI - The worse material for fatigue (used on bikes) is aluminium alloy - but fatigue depends on a number of factors. e.g. aluminium alloy suffers terribly from fatigue if stressed close to it's maximum strength, but has good longevity if the stress levels are kept well away from it's maximum. This is why superlight ali frames suffer terribly from fatigue - but airplane manufactures are happy to use aluminium alloy in their planes.

I have had two Cannondale MTB frames fail and a friend two Orange (superlight) MTB frames - so statements like "buy alloy bars cos' they'll last a lifetime" is complete rubbish.

One of my Dale frames failed due to fatigue - the other due to corrosion.

The two Orange frames failed due to fatigue - confirmed by Orange who suggested that my friend get the steel as a replacement. The second Orange frame hadn't even been taken offroad - and Orange only offered discount on a steel replacement as it was a few months out of warranty.
Had a similar conversation with Merlin Cycles about fatigue - when I got my Ti Hardtaill (as their alloy frame was lighter and cheaper than the Ti version).

But back to the original question.. should you buy cheap EBay carbon bars? I would say no - but not because they are carbon - but because carbon strength lies in it's manufacture and component design - and you have no idea of either. same could be said for cheap superlight EBay alloy bars.

EKIMIKE

Assuming that post is aimed in my direction, there are a few things you are not understanding about what i'm saying.

Firstly i've not said at any point there are any 'fatigue issues' with carbon.

Secondly the example you give have no relevance. You are describing cases of frame failure, i'm talking about handlebars. The differences in frame manufacture and handlebar manufacture is vast. So far we've yet to have anyone complain about their Alu bars snapping or cracking. Pokerface given a pretty clear insight into his personal experience with carbon bars.

Even so, i'm not totally against the idea of carbon bars. Contextually, however, i would have issues with buying carbon bars off eBay branded with a name i've never heard of. Also with more reputable brands, i can't personally justify the outlay. Remember, the guy is looking at the £50 pricepoint.

Thirdly, looking at the weight of bars such as the ones linked in this thread, they're still of reasonable weight. Maybe it would be worrying if they were sub 200g. Don't get me wrong, i'm not some sort of scientist proclaiming to know the ins and outs of material properties, with a gripe against carbon bars (or carbon anything for that matter, i do ride a CF bike). It is worth considering that there is a whole school of thought out there including in the pro peloton that (with current technology) carbon fibre isn't the best material for every bike component.

It's almost as common to see someone slamming aluminium for being prone to fatigue as it is to hear 'carbon just snaps'. But that's not the bottom line. There are other factors in play.

EKIMIKE

springtide9 wrote:

I have had two Cannondale MTB frames fail and a friend two Orange (superlight) MTB frames - so statements like "buy alloy bars cos' they'll last a lifetime" is complete rubbish.

Equally, implied statements like "don't buy alloy bars cos' alloy frames break" are complete rubbish. It's like comparing bike frames with aeroplanes There is no valid comparison.

Note i didn't say they'll last a lifetime. In fact i used the word 'probably'. A probability. I'd suggest the probability of some Richey WCS Alloy bars lasting 10 years compared to the eBay specials is pretty high.

Pokerface

TimoH wrote:

From the strength calculation point of view, handlbars are probably much easier components than e.g. seatposts. The amount of weight (and fluctuating stress) put frequently on a very small area of a seatpost is way higher than that put on a handlebar. If there was any chance of fatigue-induced failures for a seatpost, nobody would make them, for the pure reason of product safety.

If you think about it, a seat post usually sits quite deep in a frame so very little of the post is subjected to high stress. If you were to have the post at the minimum insertion point or beyond, then the fulcrum effect would put more stress on a particular point in the post. With handlebars the fastening point and method means the bars can't escape the stresses the same way.

In general, my view is that fatigue of material is not an issue with carbon fiber. If there was any general fatigue-related issues with any critical carbon component, there should be at least a warning in the product documentation. I have never seen any.

By the same logic, any and all parts that may wear out or fail at some point should be forewarned - not only on bikes, but all mechanical devices? Just isn't the case. Just because they don't 'advertise' the failings of carbon, doesn't mean parts won't wear out.

I wasn't suggesting that carbon gets fatigued - but it does break a lot easier (in the case of bars) than alu bars.

Mercury-10

I bought some on Ebay, so that I could maybe start a business airbrushing them, I went to the Pyrenees to try them out and to my surprise found them to be really Flexy no good what so ever, complete wast of money, bit of a shame really, could have had a little business going :-(

Mercury-10

check this video out, gulp!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc9jKhik ... e=youtu.be

cougie

Works of art ! They'd probably be fine for a fair few of the Mamils best bikes - they only have to last a few rides before the bike gets forgotten about ! :-)

Mercury-10

cougie wrote:

Works of art ! They'd probably be fine for a fair few of the Mamils best bikes - they only have to last a few rides before the bike gets forgotten about ! :-)

Ha Ha fair comment, maybe I should just cary on......not!