Canc: Swiss based chippy needed to widen door at head height

calvjones
calvjones Posts: 3,850
edited November 2010 in Pro race
'It would be very difficult to pick out which of his career wins means the most to him. “My fourth Worlds win, making me the best time triallist of all time''

Does this mean Micky R. is the second best TTer of all time? Cool :!:
___________________

Strava is not Zen.
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Comments

  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    Anyone got any figures comparing Cancellara with say Indurain over a 50k TT?
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    calvjones wrote:
    'It would be very difficult to pick out which of his career wins means the most to him. “My fourth Worlds win, making me the best time triallist of all time''

    Does this mean Micky R. is the second best TTer of all time? Cool :!:

    The year he didn't win the worlds in that streak he won the Olympics didn't he?

    Or am I suffering amnesia again?
    _
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    inkyfingers wrote:
    Anyone got any figures comparing Cancellara with say Indurain over a 50k TT?

    Any figures would probably be fairly worthless. Different courses, different conditions, different technology, different priorities within a GC rac,e etc,etc.

    Personally, I think Indurain was marginally better, but it's only a gut feeling.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    The year he didn't win the worlds in that streak he won the Olympics didn't he?

    Or am I suffering amnesia again?

    No, you're right.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    RichN95 wrote:
    inkyfingers wrote:
    Anyone got any figures comparing Cancellara with say Indurain over a 50k TT?

    Any figures would probably be fairly worthless. Different courses, different conditions, different technology, different priorities within a GC rac,e etc,etc.

    Personally, I think Indurain was marginally better, but it's only a gut feeling.

    I know it's hard to compare, but I think you could be right, certainly if you take into account the improvements is aero technology since Indurain was racing. Over a shorter course I think Cancellara might take it but can see Indurain winning over 50k.

    Obviously this is opinion, based on pure speculation...so don't all be shouting me down!
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • LangerDan
    LangerDan Posts: 6,132
    inkyfingers wrote:
    I know it's hard to compare, but I think you could be right, certainly if you take into account the improvements is aero technology since Indurain was racing.
    Not so sure - I reckon Migs Pinarello Espada could take the Pepsi Challenge with any of the current range of TT bikes
    CN-Giro-Pin_Espada_05.jpg

    inkyfingers wrote:

    Over a shorter course I think Cancellara might take it but can see Indurain winning over 50k.

    So if you're looking for "assistance", Physics pwns Chemistry up to 50k?
    'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    The long TDF time trials carry more prestige, when you beat Ullrich or Armstrong, or Indurain. Those scalps make you the best. He couldn't even beat Contador in 2008...how can he be best?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    inkyfingers wrote:
    Anyone got any figures comparing Cancellara with say Indurain over a 50k TT?

    he should go for the hour record since he's talkin the big talk now. I think if they are scared to get tooled up nowadays, so then they won't do it. Rominger for me holds the fastest hour in the tooled up categeory-Ferrari help. Obree and Boardman are who canc is maybe worried he couldn't pass
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    Dave_1 wrote:
    inkyfingers wrote:
    Anyone got any figures comparing Cancellara with say Indurain over a 50k TT?

    he should go for the hour record since he's talkin the big talk now. I think if they are scared to get tooled up nowadays, so then they won't do it. Rominger for me holds the fastest hour in the tooled up categeory-Ferrari help. Obree and Boardman are who canc is maybe worried he couldn't pass

    +1 to this. Nobody who hasn't at least held the hour can call themselves the best TTer ever surely. Jacques and Faustino are probably spinning* madly in their graves as we speak



    *or maybe not considering the then prevalent gearing back then.
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    calvjones wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    inkyfingers wrote:
    Anyone got any figures comparing Cancellara with say Indurain over a 50k TT?

    he should go for the hour record since he's talkin the big talk now. I think if they are scared to get tooled up nowadays, so then they won't do it. Rominger for me holds the fastest hour in the tooled up categeory-Ferrari help. Obree and Boardman are who canc is maybe worried he couldn't pass

    +1 to this. Nobody who hasn't at least held the hour can call themselves the best TTer ever surely. Jacques and Faustino are probably spinning* madly in their graves as we speak



    *or maybe not considering the then prevalent gearing back then.


    Inudurain and Ullrich are the only two who totally trounced the competition. Indurain won by 3 or 4 minutes at the Luxembourg TT 1992, and Ullrich did a hell of a TT in the 1996 TDF to win by some minutes-2 or 3 minutes and take 2nd on GC to Riis. Where was Cance in the 2005 TDF TTs? He's 3rd or 4th infact, LA has many TDF TT wins. Canc couldn't have beaten either LA, Indurain or Ullrich on their best days. 2005 TDF TTs show who were the bosses in the long TTs..only era comparison there likely is
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,821
    Dave_1 wrote:
    LA has many TDF TT wins

    But how many times was he champion of the world.

    Just being beligerent, like
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Dave_1 wrote:

    Inudurain and Ullrich are the only two who totally trounced the competition. Indurain won by 3 or 4 minutes at the Luxembourg TT 1992, and Ullrich did a hell of a TT in the 1996 TDF to win by some minutes-2 or 3 minutes and take 2nd on GC to Riis. Where was Cance in the 2005 TDF TTs? He's 3rd or 4th infact, LA has many TDF TT wins. Canc couldn't have beaten either LA, Indurain or Ullrich on their best days. 2005 TDF TTs show who were the bosses in the long TTs..only era comparison there likely is

    Cancellara hadn't exactly reached his peak in 2005, was only 24. He didn't start winning the Worlds until 2006 (he was 3rd in 2005).
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • daverow
    daverow Posts: 64
    Indurain was a far classier rider, full stop. Was always there or thereabouts in the mountains and wasn't affraid to turn himself inside out trying. Cancellara pretty much capitulates as soon as there's anything above 6%. No denying he's the finest TT'er we've seen but what's the point in caning everyone in a prologue then losing it all when the road heads up? One trick pony.

    Big Mig everytime.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    daverow wrote:
    Indurain was a far classier rider, full stop. Was always there or thereabouts in the mountains and wasn't affraid to turn himself inside out trying. Cancellara pretty much capitulates as soon as there's anything above 6%. No denying he's the finest TT'er we've seen but what's the point in caning everyone in a prologue then losing it all when the road heads up? One trick pony.

    I'm not sure how someone who has won Paris-Roubaix (twice), RVV and Milan-San Remo is a one trick pony? And I'm fairly sure some of the RVV bergs are over 6%.

    Anyway, the discussion was just about time trialling, nothing else.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    TakeTheHighRoad wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    LA has many TDF TT wins

    But how many times was he champion of the world.

    Just being beligerent, like

    The long TDF TTs are the world TT champs in terms of prestige, honour. Indurain and Ullrich's best TDF TTs stand out over anything Mick Rogers did at the worlds.

    Cancellera couldn't have handled Ullrich's 2003 TDF TT stage form

    1. Indurain
    2. Ullrch
    3. LA/Cancellera?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    TakeTheHighRoad wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    LA has many TDF TT wins

    But how many times was he champion of the world.

    Just being beligerent, like

    The long TDF TTs are the world TT champs in terms of prestige, honour. Indurain and Ullrich's best TDF TTs stand out over anything Mick Rogers did at the worlds.

    Cancellera couldn't have handled Ullrich's 2003 TDF TT stage form

    1. Indurain
    2. Ullrch
    3. LA/Cancellera?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    TTs in GTs, especially week 2 and 3 TTs, are as much about recovery as TTing...

    Put a 50km TT on stage 1 of the TdF and Cancellara will beat anyone and everyone.
    _
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    TTs in GTs, especially week 2 and 3 TTs, are as much about recovery as TTing...

    Put a 50km TT on stage 1 of the TdF and Cancellara will beat anyone and everyone.

    Nobody's disputing he's the best there is at the moment. The point is that winning the World TT Championship lots does not make you the best ever.
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    TTs in GTs, especially week 2 and 3 TTs, are as much about recovery as TTing...

    Put a 50km TT on stage 1 of the TdF and Cancellara will beat anyone and everyone.

    ullrich, LA and Indurain in top form could probably beat him, week 1 or week 3. Indurain also has the hour record and an Olympic TT gold, to go alongside his bigger TDF TT wins like Lux 92 and the biggest winning margin of any rider over a long distance TT in the past 18 years, Ullrich 2nd with 2nd biggest win margin by time at 96 TDF TT stage.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    I'm not saying Chinny is definitely clean but in the early 90s there was nowt (other than sudden death) to stop you jacking your 'crit up into the high 50s. You can still cheat these days but the margins are a bit smaller. Something to bear in mind.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    LeMond, Moser and Fignon.

    Indurain, indisputeably excellent and outclassing everyone he raced against, but how can you tell how much the EPO helped him.

    Phinney the next big one.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • ozzzyosborn206
    ozzzyosborn206 Posts: 1,340
    cacellara as far as we know is clean, chances of anyone you are comparing him to were not
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6491/ ... lanet.aspx

    Not the most modest of guys is all I have to say.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • northernneil
    northernneil Posts: 1,549
    from the article "A dream is, for example, owning an island in the Caribbean, or winning the Tour de France. This was my dream when I was 11 years old. Even if the pressure comes from all sides, I know, that I'll never achieve this dream. I will certainly retire before that's possible"

    so that answers the question about whether he would consider loosing a few pounds and going for the big one
  • pedro118118
    pedro118118 Posts: 1,102
    There's no doubting he's a super talent, but he seems to be dissapearing up his own backside. Since he dominated the cobbled Classics in 2010, his ego has gone into over-drive..............culminating in his self-appointment as TdF 'Patron' en route to Liege in July.

    I really hope Garmin-Cervelo and/or Quick-Step are able to instigate a reality check next April.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Pff you guys. A successful sportsman backing himself? Who'd have thought.

    I know cycling fans are keen on their riders being humble working men, who say that a tough day in the saddle is never as hard as a day in the mines or a day during harvest, but I imagine Canc's mentality is one that most of the winners have.

    I'd suggest the riders who are as good as Canc who say otherwise, are just a lil better at knowing what to say to keep the fans happy...
    _
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    Back in the days the Grand Prix des Nations was pretty much the TT World Championship - Anquetil won it nine times. Still some work to do for Fabian :)

    I would like to see Cancellara attack the hour record though. It's the only (if flawed) tool to compare generations, and if we take that it's still Merckx as best (if we forget Sosenka, and with Boardman his overshoes alone might have gotten him the 10 m over Merckx).
  • pedro118118
    pedro118118 Posts: 1,102
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pff you guys. A successful sportsman backing himself? Who'd have thought.

    I know cycling fans are keen on their riders being humble working men, who say that a tough day in the saddle is never as hard as a day in the mines or a day during harvest, but I imagine Canc's mentality is one that most of the winners have.

    I'd suggest the riders who are as good as Canc who say otherwise, are just a lil better at knowing what to say to keep the fans happy...

    I have no issue with self-belief, confidence, drive, ambition............all that. Whether or not some of it is lost in translation is one thing, but, for me, he's borderline Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I'll be rooting for Roger and Thor come April...
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    pedro118118 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pff you guys. A successful sportsman backing himself? Who'd have thought.

    I know cycling fans are keen on their riders being humble working men, who say that a tough day in the saddle is never as hard as a day in the mines or a day during harvest, but I imagine Canc's mentality is one that most of the winners have.

    I'd suggest the riders who are as good as Canc who say otherwise, are just a lil better at knowing what to say to keep the fans happy...

    I have no issue with self-belief, confidence, drive, ambition............all that. Whether or not some of it is lost in translation is one thing, but, for me, he's borderline Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I'll be rooting for Roger and Thor come April...

    Not Tom? Shame on you!
    _
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    pedro118118 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Pff you guys. A successful sportsman backing himself? Who'd have thought.

    I know cycling fans are keen on their riders being humble working men, who say that a tough day in the saddle is never as hard as a day in the mines or a day during harvest, but I imagine Canc's mentality is one that most of the winners have.

    I'd suggest the riders who are as good as Canc who say otherwise, are just a lil better at knowing what to say to keep the fans happy...

    I have no issue with self-belief, confidence, drive, ambition............all that. Whether or not some of it is lost in translation is one thing, but, for me, he's borderline Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I'll be rooting for Roger and Thor come April...

    He's ethnic Italian - this is him being modest.

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