Bailing Out Ireland

Wallace1492

I think we will not be able to do this and pay for the Royal Wedding.....

Anyway, as I was saying to my good Irish mate at his wedding in West Cork (admittidly quietly in the corner) "You guys should have stuck with us (United Kingdom), none of this Independence malarky, the Celtic Tiger will just end in tears...... Look at us Scots, being in the Union has brought us nothing but prosperity...."

I had consumed a few Guinesses at the time.

Agent57

Wallace1492 wrote:

I think we will not be able to do this and pay for the Royal Wedding.....

That's OK; the royals and Middletons are paying for the wedding. We're just picking up the tab for extra policing. (According to Auntie.)

Zombie_donkey

We're doing it because RBS and Lloyds etc, are in it up to the nuts in loans to Ireland.

So basically the UK is bailing out UK banks again to the tune of 7bn. The same they will probably spend on bonus's.

You couldn't make this stuff up could you.

CiB

Acc to the current spin being put out, it's a good deal. We borrow 8bn off the markets at 2% and lend it to the Irish at 5%, seeing a bit of profit on the deal. Whether we ever see much of that 8bn again is up for discussion; sounds a bit too much like borrowing a couple of grand to help a mate out and then finding out that he can't pay it back after all.

woodford2barbican

Bring back Cromwell. He could sort out the Royals and the Irish.

artaxerxes

I'm ok with this as long as they give us 12 points in every Eurovision song contest inperpetuity.

rick_chasey

Zombie_donkey wrote:

We're doing it because RBS and Lloyds etc, are in it up to the nuts in loans to Ireland.

So basically the UK is bailing out UK banks again to the tune of 7bn. The same they will probably spend on bonus's.

You couldn't make this stuff up could you.

Are you a fan of Toynbee by any chance?

Specialized Needs

Wallace1492 wrote:

I think we will not be able to do this and pay for the Royal Wedding.....

Anyway, as I was saying to my good Irish mate at his wedding in West Cork (admittidly quietly in the corner) "You guys should have stuck with us (United Kingdom), none of this Independence malarky, the Celtic Tiger will just end in tears...... Look at us Scots, being in the Union has brought us nothing but prosperity...."

I had consumed a few Guinesses at the time.

Your mate isn't called Michael Ring, is he?

tailwindhome

We'll call it back rent.

You can hang on to Jedward.

tailwindhome

Front page of today's Irish Daily Star

http://twitpic.com/39etw6

itboffin

Wallace1492 wrote:

I think we will not be able to do this and pay for the Royal Wedding.....

Anyway, as I was saying to my good Irish mate at his wedding in West Cork (admittidly quietly in the corner) "You guys should have stuck with us (United Kingdom), none of this Independence malarky, the Celtic Tiger will just end in tears...... Look at us Scots, being in the Union has brought us nothing but prosperity...."

I had consumed a few Guinesses at the time.

:shock:

Feck!

plowmar

Don't forget that the IMF that gave Mr. Osbourne a thumbs up on his cuts strategy gave the same to Ireland last year.

And georgy boy went to Ireland two years ago to learn how to get out the mess he thought we were in. Oh dear

deptfordmarmoset

itboffin wrote:

Wallace1492 wrote:

I think we will not be able to do this and pay for the Royal Wedding.....

Anyway, as I was saying to my good Irish mate at his wedding in West Cork (admittidly quietly in the corner) "You guys should have stuck with us (United Kingdom), none of this Independence malarky, the Celtic Tiger will just end in tears...... Look at us Scots, being in the Union has brought us nothing but prosperity...."

I had consumed a few Guinesses at the time.

:shock:

Feck!

I know, I'm still trying to decode that message. I think I need to know how many Guinnesses had been consumed.

Lancslad

So basically whats happened is were seeing all the cuts/ tax rises then were giving the cash away to other countries. How does that reduce our debt? raise our standard of living?

daviesee

CiB wrote:

Acc to the current spin being put out, it's a good deal. We borrow 8bn off the markets at 2% and lend it to the Irish at 5%, seeing a bit of profit on the deal. Whether we ever see much of that 8bn again is up for discussion; sounds a bit too much like borrowing a couple of grand to help a mate out and then finding out that he can't pay it back after all.

^^^^^^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

TheStone

At the moment this is still a bailout of the banks. Directly the Irish banks, but most of their bonds are held by the British banks so indirectly RBS and Lloyds are being bailed out too.

gtvlusso

To be sure; they drank themselves into it, they can drink there way out of it.....

so says and Irishman (me!) :shock:

The Rookie

Ireland are our single largest export market.

They owe us money (Lloyds/RBS owned mostly by US the taxpayers)

It doesn't increase our debt at all, as we borrow the money (debit side) and lend it (credit side) - as long as they pay us back anyway! Heck we make a profit!

If Ireland start to default on loans, then the rate the UK government has to pay to borrow money will go up, its a certainty.

Lending them the money is the lesser of the 2 evils (the other being not lending it to them).

Simon

Side note, I see Alex Salmond has stopped using the Irish/Celtic tiger example as to how Scotland would thrive if independant based on its financial sector.

tailwindhome

It illustrates how bad the global economy is that £8 billion doesn't sound like a lot of money any more.

Does anyone know how Ireland actually get the money? Does Osbourne literally get out a cheque book?

Also I don't how significant £8 billion is to the Irish economy but it may not be paid back for decades just serviced. IIRC Britain has only just repaid the US for the money borrowed to fight WWII

CiB

TailWindHome wrote:

IIRC Britain has only just repaid the US for the money borrowed to fight WWII

That's because bonds are open ended, not a repayment loan from a bank over 36 months or whatever. WWII loan rates were presumably v low, so it makes sense for various UK Govts to hold off repaying those cheap loans and instead pay off the more expensive borrowing first (or sooner).

notsoblue

So where did all that European development money actually go? There must have been a group of people who made *alot* of money during the Irish boom. I'm guessing most of them are still rather well off.

Can anyone sum up what went wrong in Ireland?

hewie76

A generation ago, the very idea that a British politician would go to Ireland to see how to run an economy would have been laughable...Today things are different. Ireland stands as a shining example of the art of the possible in long-term economic policymaking, and that is why I am in Dublin: to listen and to learn...They have much to teach us, if only we are willing to learn' - UK Chancellor George Osborne, 2006.

DonDaddyD

notsoblue wrote:

So where did all that European development money actually go? There must have been a group of people who made *alot* of money during the Irish boom. I'm guessing most of them are still rather well off.

Can anyone sum up what went wrong in Ireland?

I suspect - and do keep in mind I have had only a glance at this - a combination of

Cuts that went too deep, meaning that companies were forced to make people redundant. Out of work

Real Estate - bad loans, mortgages being sold that either couldn't be paid back or were above what could be paid back. Coupled with the recession/growing unemployment meant that even more people/businesses couldn't pay them back.

Unrealistic ballpark figures across the board that couldn't be met in terms of economic growth or sustainability:

Low taxes (to attract buisness primarily) and high salaries (£7 minimum wage to UK's £5) while people pleasers were beyond the Countries means of sustaining.

CiB

hewie76 wrote:

A generation ago, the very idea that a British politician would go to Ireland to see how to run an economy would have been laughable...Today things are different. Ireland stands as a shining example of the art of the possible in long-term economic policymaking, and that is why I am in Dublin: to listen and to learn...They have much to teach us, if only we are willing to learn' - UK Chancellor George Osborne, 2006.

Well stop the world I want to get off. Are you telling us that a politician in long-term opposition (2006, hmmm... probably) said something that turned out to be wide of the mark? Pull the other one.

In other news:

* Bear defecates in wooded glade
* Pope admits to following Catholicism
* Students take another day off from lying around in bed till Countdown comes on to stage very angry protest in London against something that they've been told about on TwattererThanTheNextMan.

TheStone

notsoblue wrote:

So where did all that European development money actually go? There must have been a group of people who made *alot* of money during the Irish boom. I'm guessing most of them are still rather well off.

Can anyone sum up what went wrong in Ireland?

Same problem as the rest of the West.

Too much leverage in the banking system. Massive inflation of the money supply (ignored as a price index was used to measure inflation). Led to massive debt which created a huge housing bubble. Wage inflation didn't keep up with the money supply so the debt can't be paid back.

The govts did everything they could to stoke the debt bubble and even though they were receiving massive tax receipts based on this debt bubble, they spent it all and borrowed and spent even more.

Now that the bubble has finally burst, everyone's decided to switch to Keynesian economics and take on even more debt which our kids can worry about.