Weight Loss, Protein shakes and Training

Big_Ads

OK - this may be covered elsewhere however I have a question.

I know the mantra "you can't out train a bad diet" but what about a good one?? Currently about to embark on some training for a long (by my standards) race and hopefully a bye product of that will be a bit of weight loss.

My diet is pretty good just now but I want to take advantage of the pre & post ride recovery benefits a protein shake will give me.

What I was wondering is, if I want to lose weight as a secondary goal would the use of these shakes hinder that? And if so would the benefit outweigh (no pun intended) the slower weightloss.

Thanks in advance

Devastazione

I regularly use protein shakes as a post ride supplements (only after hardcore XC rides actually) and I feel like my muscles can recover faster. No problem associated with weight gaining so far.
I use low calories protein shakes anyway,it ain't no fancy "whey" s@&t for those poor guys at the gym... :twisted:

Big_Ads

Thanks for the reply!

What shake would you reccommend? I'm looking at a few diferent ones but the low calorie appeals to me for obvious reasons.

PS nice bikes, the Zesty is on my hitlist for my next steed

OwenBird

You're looking at two different things here. Protein (and a little bit of energy) is used to make/repair muscles. Energy (usually fats/carbs) is used to to exercise, and excess can be stored as fat.

A post exercise protein drink will have little impact on your diet/weight loss program since it should be essentially just protein and water (and some other bits and bobs). If you have a weight gain one (which has an assload of carbs to give your the excess of energy you need in your diet to put on large amounts of weight) you could be undoing some of your good work.

Do some research, find a protein supplement which is just protein (whey is a good one, it's not fancy) with as little other stuff (energy/fat) as you can and you should be allright.

Big_Ads

thanks for the explanation Owenbird,

I'll have a look around to see what's out there. I've read that the use of specific vitamins will also help aid the process, I assume most of these shakes will contain them or is there specific Vitamins I should be looking to supplement / check for their inclusion?

boneyjoe

Personally, I've found that for my "normal" training sessions of 1-2 hours no energy or protein drink (or bar) is needed, and using one will in fact make weight loss quite difficult. Good to have a high protein meal afterwards though to aid recovery.

However, for longer 2+ hr sessions and race days, I will use a carb drink both before and during the ride (plus electrolytes for longer events), and a protein drink for afterwards (plus a high carb/protein meal both before and after). Especially NB to get those proteins in after longer rides, or you can suffer a horrible bonk effect - not nice!

Don't tend to use vitamin supplements, but can recommend cod liver oil for the ol' knee joints.

Hope that helps! What event have you entered btw?

Devastazione

Big_Ads wrote:

Thanks for the reply!

What shake would you reccommend? I'm looking at a few diferent ones but the low calorie appeals to me for obvious reasons.

PS nice bikes, the Zesty is on my hitlist for my next steed

I travel quite often to the USA and that's where I get my stuff. Last year I've got a protein powder called " Myoplex Lite " from EAS,wich is considered an excellent brand there. Don't know if that is availabile in the UK tho :?

I've been using some post ride carb bars too lately and some vitamin-minerals supplements. Be careful not to cut carbs too much after you've done with the ride, it was mistake I've done way too much during my running years. Your body needs some of energy after your ride just to have the power to recover !

About vitamin and minerals I usually buy Solgar products. They may be a bit pricey but I've found them to be very effective. At the same time be careful with vitamins and minerals intake aswell,I usually take them when I go out every day and hammer down at least 30kms each time. I say be careful because they tend to make you retain a lot of water, or at least that's what happen to me when I take vitamins during no body stress times :roll:

Big_Ads

Thanks boneyjoe, the triaining cycle you mention above is pretty much what I manage

re the event, Its this one:

http://www.corrieyairack.org/index2.html

I did it a couple of years ago and want to beat my time as I bonked due to a hangover and poor nutrition before and during the race..... (that and the fact I Had never cycled for over 4 hrs before that day :oops: ....) My target is a sub 4hr time (44mins better than before)

Babber Goo

myprotein.co.uk

Big_Ads

@ Deva, thanks for the post, Are you perhaps using creatine in your supplements? I know it can lead to water retention.

@ Babergoo thanks for the link, some useful info. Looking at their protein supplement the Calories look quite high at 286 per serving, Is it my perception that it's high or can someone else confirm?

Pokerface

Big_Ads wrote:

@ Deva, thanks for the post, Are you perhaps using creatine in your supplements? I know it can lead to water retention.

@ Babergoo thanks for the link, some useful info. Looking at their protein supplement the Calories look quite high at 286 per serving, Is it my perception that it's high or can someone else confirm?

That is not high. Protein has calories, no two ways about it. This is where you have to be 'careful' if trying to lose weight. Especially if you mix up the shake with milk instead of water (tastes better).

If you keep those calories in your daily total, you can continue to lose weight. SOme people in this thread seem to think that protein shakes are freebies and have no calories. Not true.

boneyjoe

Looks like fun! Probably stating the obvious, but you'll need to include some good hill sessions in your training! - not right now, but certainly in the 2-3 months leading up to the event (subject to rest in the last week or so of course). Also, be sure to include a couple of really tough 3-4hr rides around that time - will build up good strength in the legs, give you a feel for how best to pace yourself, and you can also fine tune your food and drink strategy for the big day. Best of luck with it!

Big_Ads

@pokerface, thanks I'm new to the whole protein shake side of things and perhaps the calorie counting is giving me a slightly skewed perception of these things. It sounds like I need to take your advice around calorie control and the advice re training of boneyjoe and combine the two

@boneyjoe, thanks again for the advice biggest learning from the last time was
1 - I needed to do more climbing before the event
2 - I needed to do more 3-4hr rides before the event
3 - a good nutrition strategy both during training and the race is key!

springtide9

I've only ever tried 'forgoodnessshakes' and I must admit I do like them.

I use them after riding as well as after my lunchtime gym sessions. Main reason for the post gym session is that I generally don't have time or feel like eating after the gym.
I find the same after a long ride.. and depending on the time I get back - a shake can be useful if there is a long time before we plan to eat (as a family), as I've just missed/skipped a meal (and don't want to eat in between)

Also seemed to work pretty well for hydration - rather than drinking litres of water that went straight through me (and if I didn't drink, I'd get headaches)

Not ideal I know and I'm sure people would say, no....
In terms of weight gain, I find if I replace lunch with a shake, I actually loose weight. But it is all about calories - In vs Out.

Good luck with the event... I'm sure you'll do well.

OwenBird

springtide9 wrote:

But it is all about calories - In vs Out.

Not...necessarily. There's what source the calories come from as well. As a general rule I try to avoid simple carbs (sugar, and starchy/processed grain products - bread, pasta, spud) and use that 'space' in my diet to fit in more greens and nuts and stuff.

I can't recommend going paleo enough, it's awesome.

@pokerface, I assume you mean me. I didn't mean to imply that proten is calorie free, but there is certainly a world of difference between Whey extract and Whey+Carbs in terms of calorific value. As ever, reading the label is the thing to do innit!

springtide9

OwenBird wrote:

springtide9 wrote:

But it is all about calories - In vs Out.

Not...necessarily. There's what source the calories come from as well. As a general rule I try to avoid simple carbs (sugar, and starchy/processed grain products - bread, pasta, spud) and use that 'space' in my diet to fit in more greens and nuts and stuff.

I can't recommend going paleo enough, it's awesome.

'paleo' - thats a new one (haven't seen it before)

Looks interesting but I'm not going to buy (yet another) diet book. Is this similar to the Low GI Diet(s)? (Avoid process foods and generally eat foods with low GI)

Zandra08

Protein shakes, especially those based on whey protein supplement is the most effective and reliable for bodybuilders, and if you only use a supplement that should be protein shake. Simply acted as a quick source of protein that would be between 20-30 grams of protein, not too rich in carbohydrates or too much fat and a high utilization rate. protein powder mixed with milk is actually generally rather delicious, tasting something like a thick milkshake. Sometimes they can be hard to mix however so I advise getting a shaker to help with that.

glutaminl

KnightOfTheLongTights

High5, Torq, SIS, Powerbar all do recovery drinks around the 2:1 carbs-to-protein ratio, which seems to be recommended for recovery.

They will clock in at about 200 cals for a serving though so yes - you need to compensate somewhere else to maintain daily cal intake level. But you don't have to have a 'full dose'.

However, I often find that necking this stuff immediately after exercise lessens my hunger when I get round to cooking and I drop my portion size gladly.

According to someone whose opinion I trust, the 20 mins after the end of your sesh is the crucial time to get some protein in. So while I'd rather have a larger proper meal later on, it might lead to stiffer / sorer muscles in the morning?


As someone else has said above, I'm not sure it's necessary anyway for efforts below 2 hours - unless they are very intense. A bit of semi-skinned milk and banana probably do the job just as well.

I do circuit training which is hard on the muscles and tend to have a bit of recovery stuff after that. And after my long Satrurday run (four hours).

njee20

As someone else has said above, I'm not sure it's necessary anyway for efforts below 2 hours - unless they are very intense. A bit of semi-skinned milk and banana probably do the job just as well.

Agreed, and even then I tend not to bother unless I'm doing hard sessions day after day - when I use High 5 Recovery. If you're wanting to lose weight then I'd just avoid drinking them unless you feel it totally necessary. Same with carb drinks while riding, I don't bother under 2 hours, just extra calories.

KnightOfTheLongTights

njee20 wrote:

Same with carb drinks while riding, I don't bother under 2 hours, just extra calories.

Mmm, I've been using carb drinks cos I sweat so heavily - specially in spin classes but on the road too, even for 1-2 hr sessions.

Maybe just need electrolyte, s'thing like Nuuns. But heard Nuuns have more nasties than usual in them?

zacadebo

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

However, I often find that necking this stuff immediately after exercise lessens my hunger when I get round to cooking and I drop my portion size gladly.

This tends to be my reason why I have protein shakes after a workout. After a gym/ride/running session if I ate normally I would start demolishing whatever what was in the house later in the evening.

A shake straight after tends to stop me doing it. I will have one straight after then a meal about an hour later which normally tends to be a bit smaller than I would without the shake.

Also, as you state liquids within a short time frame after get into the body quicker and aid recovery.

I've been using Bio Synergy for about 6 months now. I've managed to shed about half a stone and bulk up with gym sessions inbetween. It's currently on buy 1, get one half price on Holland and Barrett I think