Winter Commute - Bike and Tyre Options

russello

This is my first winter of serious commuting, and would welcome some advice on bike use to get me through the winter as safe as possible.

My commute is 10 miles each way from the edge of Kent into London. All on road, using two different bikes.

I have a Giant Defy 2, using Conti Gatorskins, and also a Marin Bear Valley, running Schwalbe Marathon Plus.

I would be grateful for any comments on bike / tyre choice, as i have thought about putting some Square 8 tyres on the Marin, thinking it may give me a bit more grip. On the other hand, this would mean less rubber in contact with the road, which doesn't sound like a good idea ????

Regarding bikes, I use SPD pedals on my Giant, and use flat DMR pedals on the Marin. In the winter, my thinking is that the flat pedals mean a bit quicker reaction in the event of a skid on icy roads.

I do prefer the speed of my road bike, but given the frost has started, i've been thinking more about making it to work a bit slower on a mountain bike, but still in one piece.

Any thought really appreciated. Thanks.

fatherted

Sounds very complicated.

I cycle to work on my singlespeed ( Zaffiro tyres ) taking more care if it looks slippery/icy.

Tonymufc

I'd use the road bike, but as mentioned above take extra care when it looks a bit icy. The usual things as well. Full guards if the bike will take it, wider tyres (25mm), and light yourself up as bright as you can.

andreaslc

I think you'll be fine with your Marathon Swabbles to be honest. We don't suffer of terrible winters here. Like the previous commenters suggested bike lights are key.

laughingboy

RussellO wrote:

This is my first winter of serious commuting, and would welcome some advice on bike use to get me through the winter as safe as possible.

My commute is 10 miles each way from the edge of Kent into London. All on road, using two different bikes.

I have a Giant Defy 2, using Conti Gatorskins, and also a Marin Bear Valley, running Schwalbe Marathon Plus.

Whilst it is possible to skid and fall off a bicycle, I'd say that in normal conditions, you only need to ride with a bit of care and awareness to avoid it. The irony of course is that awareness comes with (well, actually after) the experience of falling off

Wider tyres are a better bet than thinner tyres, especially as you can run them flatter giving a thicker contact area with the road. I've used Conti Gatorskins for the last two winters. I'd say that they grip the road about as well as anything. The only exceptions to this are smooth wet surfaces (i.e drain covers or certain 'tactile' paving or cobbles - wet tarmac is fine) and sheet ice. Sheet ice is actually slippery; nothing much grips on sheet ice.

The solution to sheet ice is not deep tread tyres - I think I am right in saying that these are primarily designed to grip on loose surfaces. The solution is studded tyres like Schwalbe Marathon winter or Nokian. These are expensive and - this comes down to personal taste - I've never judged it to be worth the expense for the, say, week's worth of icy roads in a typical winter down south. Last winter was not a typical winter. Mind you, so far, nor is this one. :?

russello

Thanks all.

Wasn't meant to be too complicated. Sounds like the science is simple, I'll be keeping what I already have. Few slips here and there, but just taking it a bit easier, especially on the bends.

Having said all that about the weather, I was lucky with green lights all the way in today, and came in on my fatest time ever.

tomb353

given that you are buying tyres anyway, might be worth thinking about putting a schwalbe winter marathon on the front wheel of one of the bikes, probably the MTB as that will have the clearance. That way if you get up in the morning and there is ice on the roads then you've got the option. Bike24.net do them from Germany, and one of them won't break the bank. Depends how often you get a real freeze out where you are in kent, genrally if a car windscreen is properly frozen there will be black ice in some locations, if you hit ice midway through a turn you'll struggle to stay upright. The studded tyres do work and whilst they make a bit of noise don't slow you down too much. I got my winter marathons last year, seemed like overkill in November but was feeling very smug when the snowstorms started.

forgetful

realise this thread is a bit old now, but...

Hi, was just browsing and found this post, and it's something I've read a lot about, so thought it warranted a reply.

When choosing bike tires (for winter) what you have to remember is:
1) tread only makes a difference if the surface you are riding on is more deformable than the tire. (tarmac = more solid than tire; mud/snow = less solid than tire; packed snow is roughly equivalent to ice)
2) more surface area in contact = more grip.

This means that for road riding (no snow), a slick tire will always have more grip. If it's wet, it will have more rubber in contact with the slippery wet tarmac, and be grippier than a tire which has tread - the gaps between the tread arent touching anything, decreasing your contact area. If you are on ice then a slick tire is still grippier than a treaded tire, as it has more surface area in contact with the ice, it's just that ice is so slippy that the extra grip probably won't be enough to keep you upright.

I will now invoke rule "1)" if you have metal studded tires then they will deform the ice and you will have more grip than without studs.

If you are riding on snow (which is deformable) then tread will help you with traction. A treaded tire on front will allow you to steer and stop you falling, a treaded rear tire will allow you to push the bike along. If you're only going to have one treaded tire in snow then I'd go for the front one as you will fall down less. If you are on roads then you may want a thin treaded tire to cut down into the snow to the grippy tarmac below. If you are in deep snow or snow off road then you want wide tires to float on top of the snow. This paragraph holds true if you replace "snow" with "mud".

Aquaplaning. This is where the tread confusion lies. Cars need tread in the wet to drive water away from under the wheel because there is a risk they will aquaplane (ie. float on top of the water) there are a few different types of aquaplaning. one happens with a really hot tire where the edges melt and the tire is deformed or something (not going to happen on a bike) Another is reliant on speed. Mathematically it happens at 10(squareRoot(tirePressure)). pressure in psi, giving a number in miles per hour. This was determined experimentally, I think by NASA when they were researching about shuttles landing. Basically it means that at a tire psi of 36, you'd have to be going 60 mph to aquaplane. and mostly bicycles have their tires at higher pressure, or cant get up to that speed. (there is a better formula which takes into account for tire width, but it doesn't really add anyting to the argument). I think there's another type of aquaplaning but it wasn't particularly relevant so I didn't pay much attention. So bottom line, aquaplaning is not a problem for bicycles, therefore you dont need tread to go through water.

A word on contact patch. If you pump tires up to 100 psi and "you+bike=100 pounds" then it means that your road contact patch (across both tires) is one square inch (psi = pounds/square inch) if you half the pressure, you double the contact patch. It doesnt matter how wide your tires are, if a wide tire is at the same pressure as a skinny one, they will have the same contact patch area, the contact area will just be different shapes. Wide tyres allow you to run a lower pressure without bottoming out onto the rim and getting a pinch flat. Why is this relevant? See rule "1)". more contact area = more grip. Lower pressure = more contact area. If you have a treaded tire then you will have less in contact with actual road, because the force from the knobbles is spread out across the rubber that has no knobbles (ie. the gaps in between the knobbles) such that the contact patch vs. psi bit is based on the area of tire if you were to cut the knobbles of the tread off the tire.

Bottom line (nearly):
Snow/mud - tyre with tread
ice - tire with studs, or biggest contact area you can get
dry road, wet road, metal man-hole - slicks.

I hope you can now make your own informed decision.

I ride slicks unless it has snowed (like today) in which case I switch to my cyclocross tires. I dont think studs would be worth the time/effort/money. (in the bit of england where I live)

laughingboy

forgetful, that is a truly excellent post. Welcome to the forum.

roger_merriman

with tyres, regarding tread vs slick it only holds like for like, ie same size, and type.

A MTB tyre may well put down more rubber on the road, and is likely to have a softer compound. plus can run a low pressures I don't go above 30PSI for the MTB.

even tyres that look very similar can behave differently.