Provisional Licences, Motor Cycle Couriers and the Law

spen666

I have often wondered about the sense behind idea of allowing people only holding provisional licences for motorcycles to work as motor cycle couriers.

1. Theses riders have had to undergo a CBT course which is more than car drivers do
2. However, they have not passed the motorcycle test and therefore can be thought of as having only a limited competency on a motor cycle

I have never had a problem with a motor cycle courier, so this is not the rant of someone with a grudge.

i am just curious at what people thing about allowing those not fully qualified to ride being able to ride a motorbike as part of their employment

gtvlusso

In the good 'ol days of motorcycling (my long lost yoof) - it was 1 test on a 125cc machine (about 10bhp) - then you could go out and buy a super hyperblade nitro job - like the good ol' gsxr 1100 W (about 130bhp) and now most superbikes exceed 190bhp......

Consequently - allot of kids died.

IMHO - the CBT and 2 part test system is a good system. Allows people access to mopeds after some basic safety training, for commuting and "easy" transport or access to bigger bikes via direct access if you enjoy motorcycling.

The point being: you can't just go out and buy the fastest thing you can afford!

However, I think it should be part of your emoployment that you are more than "basically" qualified, if the main part of your job is driving/riding (see PSV and HGV!). The cbt and prov licence lasts for 3 years I think - so you have to restest.

The onus should be on the courier companies to make sure that their employees have full motorbike licences and are not just using very basic training and the "L" plate system.

Clever Pun

My better half just did her 3rd cbt* and she's said it's significantly harder than when she started and quite a few people weren't allowed out on the road and consequently failed.

it limits you to a 125 bike which isn't really much. and lasts for 2 years

if someone rides like a prick then a 3 day intensive course and a test wont stop them riding that way (once they've passed riding well)




*she's was going to do the full test this year, but things happened

beverick

I would be surprised that any 'vanilla' motor cycle insurance covered the rider working as a courier, "fast food" or other delivery rider.

I'd be surprised that any specific insurance policy covered a provisional rider to work for gain in any capacity and specifically as a courier/delivery rider.

I'd be surprised even if a courier firm had an overall pinsurance olicy that it would cover a rider with a provisional license (unless they held a "full" license for a vehicle in another category).

Bob

Pufftmw

You do have to prove yourself off-road in a CBT before you are able to drive on-road. This is a cumpulsory off and on-road based assessment with regards to testing your ability to ride and control your bike in addition to tests on road signage/highway code.

We employ them and find that they are no more likely to have an accident than any other full licence holding motorcycle courier.

Pizza delivery drivers are the same and I would say they were potentially worse than couriers as they get paid less and have tighter deadlines.

Pufftmw

beverick wrote:

I would be surprised that 'vanilla' motor cycle insurance covered the rider working as a courier.

Bob

It doesn't - their insurance is generally a 100% loading over a "civilian" risk

lost_in_thought

I agree, Spen, I think there should be a limit on the number of times you can renew your CBT before you are obliged to take a full test. If you don't take the full test there should be a ban of a year or something to give people an incentive to take the proper test.

You don't have to take theory tests to do your CBT, and they're really very easy... I recently renewed mine with a view to getting my full licence next year.

I don't think a CBT should allow you to ride a motorbike on the road indefinitely. All the bad motorbike driving I see comes from riders with ever more subtle L plates.

tiny_pens

IMHO

The CBT is a way of avoiding legislative tax on motorcycle transport. What I mean is that you do not need to have attended lessons in order to take a driving (or riding) test. As a learner car driver you can get practice by driving around with an existing driver. The equivalent is not possible to easily enforce and the CBT seems like a reasonable (on paper) way of letting learners go off and practice.

You're right though. Seems a bit bonkers to allow a learner / trainee licence be the minimum required to work. Is there any equivalent? Apprentice accountants, solicitors? I believe they have to be supervised

Interesting.

spen666

Pufftmw wrote:

You do have to prove yourself off-road in a CBT before you are able to drive on-road. This is a cumpulsory off and on-road based assessment with regards to testing your ability to ride and control your bike in addition to tests on road signage/highway code.

We employ them and find that they are no more likely to have an accident than any other full licence holding motorcycle courier.
Pizza delivery drivers are the same and I would say they were potentially worse than couriers as they get paid less and have tighter deadlines.

This being true, then there is it seems little point in having the full test

Pufftmw

In town, the max (in theory) speed is 30 mph (or 40 in a couple of places). On a 125 the max speed is about 65. Once you're on a big (ger and heavier) bike, then you can hit the motorways and A-roads on some machines that are capable of 0-60 in 3 secs & 175mph+ Your average 600cc commuter bike can accelerate faster than most sports cars. That is why there is a test as bigger bikes are so much more lethal than their smaller bretheren.

Unfortunately, recently deaths on motorcycles have risen, due mainly to older people taking their Direct Access test and buying superbikes they don't know how to handle and killing themselves (or Harleys...).

A courier will spend 8-10 hours a day on a bike whereas your average commuter will spend an hour a day - that experience soon builds up.