Bleedin' my Juicy 3's - Where am I going wrong?

Jenny Taylia

Hi.

Bleedin', how hard can it be? (How bleedin' hard can it be?) or How Thick am I?

OK, so I've got these Juicy Three's, the rear brake is fine but there is too much travel in the front, way too much, before a poor bite point.

I buy the Avid (Copy) bleed kit, download the instructions, watch the YouTube SRAM Video on How To . . . and I get stuck in, maticulously following the printed instructions.

Bleed Caliper, Hose & Lever, after ensuring very little air in the fluid by following the "Pull syringe" trick.

Air comes out of the Front system (Not touching the rear's yet), put it all back together and it's so much WORSE! . . . . . ZERO pad movement, Zero Braking (Obviously)

So I unwind the grub screw in the lever, almost fully out and re-do the whole process.

Kind of result, in as much as there is now some "Feel" and the brakes work but I have to turn the adjuster grub screw ALL THE WAY IN on the lever and the brakes are still not as keen as the rear and there's too much lever travel still and it feels spongey.

Now, Ive bled cars, motorbikes , vans etc with no bother but this is frustrating me beyond toleration. I'm loathed to take it to a shop for them to do coz 1) I won't be learning anything and 2) I've got all the kit now!

Can any kind soul out there please tell me how to get a good lever "Feel" and decent brakes, like the rear one?

Where am I going wrong with the bleed process?

HELP Please

nicklouse

Zero pad movement = air in the system.

keep going till it is all out.

cycling the fluid from one end to the other can help.

you have read the manual and followed what it said?

ddraver

This is not an avid approved trick so i ll leave it up to you to decide if you want to use it...

It sounds like you ve made a right hash of it (as did I the first few times) and there is air throughout the system - When you ve got all the syringes attatched, release the brake lever (which according to the instructions should be closed) and pull up gently on the calpier syringe - This sucks a whole load of air from...somewhere... Then, degass the caliper syringe and start from scratch followign the instructions as usual (brake lever held to bar whilst bleeding caliper)

The other thing is that you don't need to pull up too hard during a normal bleed as it is surprisingly easy to suck air past the seals - just a few mm should be fine - then push down ont he syringe hard to replace the bubbles with fluid

Jenny Taylia

nicklouse wrote:

Zero pad movement = air in the system.

you have read the manual and followed what it said?

Hi. Yes, read the Bleed Kit Manual, the SRAM Instructions and watched the SRAM Youtube "How To"

Should I be totally winding out the grub screw on the lever (reach Adjuster) before I start?

thanks

thecremeegg

I'm having exactly the same issue with mine, doing my head in tbh, almost close to throwing the thing in the bin!

Jenny Taylia

thecremeegg wrote:

I'm having exactly the same issue with mine, doing my head in tbh, almost close to throwing the thing in the bin!

I don't feel so dumb now it's not only me

As these Juicy's are new to me, should they be "Hard" like Hayes Nines or "Spongey" like Shimano's? My rear brake feels almost Hard, so I'm assuming that the rear is ok.

diy

Do you degass the fluid first?
Are you inserting a pad spacer of the correct size?
Do you fill both syringes, calliper 2/3 full and the lever 1/5?
Are you being careful not to push all the fluid in the calliper syringe back in?
I would do a full flush and re-bleed. i.e. a double bleed, to get the air out.

I hope you are not following the park tools guide either, because its wrong.

ddraver

Jenny Taylia wrote:

Should I be totally winding out the grub screw on the lever (reach Adjuster) before I start?

NO! That can cause problems, it needs to be somewhere in the middle, too far out and something weird happens...

nicklouse

Jenny Taylia wrote:

As these Juicy's are new to me, should they be "Hard" like Hayes Nines or "Spongey" like Shimano's? My rear brake feels almost Hard, so I'm assuming that the rear is ok.

sounds like the rear is right.

they dont feel like hayes they have some give.

PS you have removed the pads and pushed the pistons home and put a spacer in there?

Jenny Taylia

nicklouse wrote:

Jenny Taylia wrote:

As these Juicy's are new to me, should they be "Hard" like Hayes Nines or "Spongey" like Shimano's? My rear brake feels almost Hard, so I'm assuming that the rear is ok.

sounds like the rear is right.

they dont feel like hayes they have some give.

PS you have removed the pads and pushed the pistons home and put a spacer in there?

OK, thanks, now I know not to expect the great Hayes feel.

Yes, I removed the pads but didn't force the pistons back, for fear of bending the little locator pins. I put a "Spacer" in, that stops the pads becoming fast together but nothing that was as wide as the pins . . . . . . is that where I went wrong?

how do you push the pistons withouf damaging the pad locator pins or the edge of the piston?

thanks again.

nicklouse

ok to push the pistons home refit the pads and then push on the back of the opposite one.

so you press on the metal backing of a pad that presses on the other pad that then pushes the piston home.

saves the pads and pistons.

if the pistons are not fully home there can still be air trapped in the caliper.

see here

http://www.hopegb.com/page_mep_force_39.html

Jenny Taylia

nicklouse wrote:

ok to push the pistons home refit the pads and then push on the back of the opposite one.

so you press on the metal backing of a pad that presses on the other pad that then pushes the piston home.

saves the pads and pistons.

if the pistons are not fully home there can still be air trapped in the caliper.

see here

http://www.hopegb.com/page_mep_force_39.html

Well burger me :oops:

I guess this is where I went wrong?

I'll try again tomorrow.

Many thanks once again Nicklouse, you're the font of all bike knowledge

ps off topic, when I'm typing messages, why does the "Type sheet" not stay down, so I can see what I'm typing? After a few lines, it's impossible to see what I've put :x I can scroll down but it bounces right back up

nicklouse

what you also have to consider is that everything is much smaller on pushbikes than cars and MC but the bubbles are the same size.

they are harder to shift.

some tapping of hoses and parts can help them move as well.

the above suction comment is also very good to note.

basically it is all i do when shortening hoses.

thecremeegg

I paid my LBS to do mine in the end.....£6.50 a brake, well worth it imo

jimexbox

thecremeegg wrote:

I paid my LBS to do mine in the end.....£6.50 a brake, well worth it imo

Just checked my lbs price for bleeding one brake...£22.50.

Anonymous

FYI, the official kit has spacers exactly the right size and it forces you to push the pistons back to fit the spacer if they aren't back far enough.

Yes it's £30-ish, but has all the right bits and if you follow the instructions you can't go wrong really (well I didn't). The fluid provided is good for 3 bleeds of both front & back, so £5 per brake. I don't think it's such a rip off as people claim.

thecremeegg

jimexbox wrote:

thecremeegg wrote:

I paid my LBS to do mine in the end.....£6.50 a brake, well worth it imo

Just checked my lbs price for bleeding one brake...£22.50.

Yea I couldn't believe it, great sevice as well as he helped my adjust my rebound correctly