Police ratings?

twixter22

Hey guys im not too sure where to put this.
Well its really just a bit of a rant/giggle about the police
Today i went to unlock my bike to ride back home from work and saw a little yellow tag on it?
Has anyone else had one of these?
Well on the tag it says that my bike is a code B. feeling quite curious about what class B meant i got home and had a look on the police website.
Apparently code B means that my bike is locked up with a poor quality lock.
I HAVE A NEW YORK KRYPTONITE!!!!!!!
As the people who are suppose to protect against bike theft they sure dont know their stuff!!!
Rant over
Overall question is, has anyone else had one of these little tags? i think its the most pointless watse of police time ever

Rant fully over

mossmotorsport

What county are you based in? You have one of the best locks available - so your right - they don't have a clue! It is also a complete waste of time - as presumably a bright yellow sticker just attracts attention too!

unixnerd

The rating might take into account other factors, such as where the bike was and if any of it's bits were easily removable.

Northwind

twixter22 wrote:

Apparently code B means that my bike is locked up with a poor quality lock.
I HAVE A NEW YORK KRYPTONITE!!!!!!!
As the people who are suppose to protect against bike theft they sure dont know their stuff!!!

Is it a chain or d-lock? If it's a chain, then yes, your bike is locked up with a poor quality lock that any thief could break in seconds. Kryptonite don't sell a single good quality chain. If it's a d-lock then it might be OK, but if it's more than a couple of years old it might equally have a useless lock on it.

supersonic

I could have a Kryptonite NY in seconds with the right kit - as above, I guess they take into account existing crimes and the location.

mak3m

this

supersonic wrote:

I could have a Kryptonite NY in seconds with the right kit - as above, I guess they take into account existing crimes and the location.

and this

unixnerd wrote:

The rating might take into account other factors, such as where the bike was and if any of it's bits were easily removable.

plus it aint there job to protect against bike theft, particularly in these days of cuts, thats your job. they are just highlighting they think your bike could be nicked, damn police trying to help people :roll:

t0pc4t

so basically your jobbing bike thief just needs to clock what colour tag means 'lock made of cheese' and his job gets a whole lot easier?

toasty

One solitary d-lock won't protect much either, for the extra weight I think it'd be worth taking a light cable as well to stop opportunist thieves nicking the easily removed bits.

RevellRider

Northwind wrote:

twixter22 wrote:

Apparently code B means that my bike is locked up with a poor quality lock.
I HAVE A NEW YORK KRYPTONITE!!!!!!!
As the people who are suppose to protect against bike theft they sure dont know their stuff!!!

Is it a chain or d-lock? If it's a chain, then yes, your bike is locked up with a poor quality lock that any thief could break in seconds. Kryptonite don't sell a single good quality chain. If it's a d-lock then it might be OK, but if it's more than a couple of years old it might equally have a useless lock on it.

Not actually true, The New York Fahgettaboudit chain and Disc Lock is Sold Secure Gold rated in both lengths. And the current New York D-lock is of the same standard.

http://www.soldsecure.com/search///ny-f ... -lock.html
http://www.soldsecure.com/search///ny-lock-std.html

cee

RevellRider

Ready for the cold hard truth?

Tests carried out on behalf of Cycle magazine showed that all of the bicycle locks tested, which had a variety of certifications from Sold Secure, Thatcham, and ART, could be broken in less than 42 seconds.[1][2] Cables and chains were breached using either small cable cutters or 36" bolt croppers, and D-locks were breached using a stubby bottle jack. Of the locks tested, five had a Sold Secure Gold rating, varying in price from £25 to £100. Two of these Gold rated locks withstood only 10 seconds of attack

from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_lo ... _and_tests

The quoted time for breaking a £55 d-lock at the time was 42.7 seconds. Using just one tool, which is easily carryable in a big jacket pocket.....

The reality is that the Sold Secure Standard is more about ensuring that your insurance company pays up, rather than them being unable to be broken.

The Gold Standard means that it should withstand attack for 5 minutes...but as was shown in the test from above....even Gold Standard locks CAN be broken in less than 45 seconds, two Gold Standard were even broken n less than 10 seconds.

*AJ*

Nice of them to advertise to the theif that your bike has a poor quality lock! lol

ooermissus

cee wrote:

D-locks were breached using a stubby bottle jack.

Which is true enough if you leave enough space for a bottle jack to be inserted - which is why good locking practice is important.

cee

ooermissus wrote:

cee wrote:

D-locks were breached using a stubby bottle jack.

Which is true enough if you leave enough space for a bottle jack to be inserted - which is why good locking practice is important.

other methods are also available which do not require quite as much wiggle space as the bottlejack method....

and...even if you lock it up so you don't think you have left any space......if the bike is valuable...do not underestimate the fact that a thief will happily break a few of your spokes...instant space that you didn't think was there.

Anonymous

You're delusional if you think any lock is going to prevent theft.
It might deter the casual, opportunist thief, but if someone really wants your bike, they WILL have it.
All you can do is make sure you adhered to the requirements of the insurance, and wait for the payout, sadly.

TuckerUK

Um, but surely the D-Lock goes round the frame too, and it would have to be a very determined thief to chop up the frame.

Of course it's impossible to make a bike theft proof, but (theft to order on exclusive bikes apart) all you are trying to do in reality is make your bike harder to steal than the bike parked next to it!

RevellRider

Cee, I never saw that article from Cycling magazine before. I wasn't under the false illusion that Gold Standard locks were un-breakable. I did expect them to last longer than that though.

TuckerUK, I have heard of thieves cutting frames in half to steal bikes from sheds. Just for the components on the bikes.

ride_whenever

An anlge grinder will cut most locks fairly quickly... as will hydraulic bolt cutters if you've got a set of jaws big enough.

The quality of the lock is largely irrelevant against the size, the bigger the shackle/links the better. All cables are poo, most cheap d-locks are poo.

this is the thread worth reading if you want to know exactly which locks actually work as opposed to claiming work.

LjStronge

Fact is - my bike gets left NO WHERE.

It lives in my shed and ANY other time it is out of there I'm on it or standing next to it.

If it gets nicked from my shed, then insurance pays out, but that's the only time it is out of my site.

(It's only in the shed because the missus won't let me keep it in the bedroom!)

Anonymous

Northwind wrote:

Is it a chain or d-lock? If it's a chain, then yes, your bike is locked up with a poor quality lock that any thief could break in seconds. Kryptonite don't sell a single good quality chain. If it's a d-lock then it might be OK, but if it's more than a couple of years old it might equally have a useless lock on it.

I thought D-locks just required a big heavy hammer to crack them?

There are also cable locks. I use a combination of heavy duty cable and d-lock, all sold secure. No they are not impossible to crack, but they are a sufficient deterrent to most thieves around town, and keep the insurance company happy. The determined thieves are to be found at trail centres, though they tend to look for the most expensive bikes, follow people home and nick them from there.

Other reasons for maybe getting a note from the cops is leaving components on that could be removed (wheels, seat, etc). Taking the wheels off and locking them to the frame at least means they can't just pinch them. Locking to a point on the bike or item you've locked it to which are weak are other reasons.

Not that I generally lock my bike up out in public these days anyway as it's always in my sight. At home it's a complex affair. Used to keep it in the shed, with multiple locks and chained to another bike, chained to other stuff. Shed's been broken into but they left the bike. I don't keep it in the shed though these days.

Steve_F

deadkenny wrote:

The determined thieves are to be found at trail centres, though they tend to look for the most expensive bikes, follow people home and nick them from there.

Just as well I drive at a speed that I'd notice someone following me then!

It isn't just the centres this can happen from, most of us will have the bike on top of/on the back of the car on the way home, easy to see it from round the corner.

My mate had been biking with me, unloaded his car, washed his & his missus' bike in the back garden and they dissapeared that night. Someone had obviously spotted him unloading or cleaning the bikes and putting them in the shed. Open invitation unfortunately.

Northwind

RevellRider wrote:

Not actually true, The New York Fahgettaboudit chain and Disc Lock is Sold Secure Gold rated in both lengths. And the current New York D-lock is of the same standard.l

I see Sold Secure is still doing its job then- inspiring confidence in mediocre products. It's a terrible standard- the tool that thieves use to break big chains is very simple, big manual boltcutters. Sold Secure tests every other attack method they can think of, all those attacks that thieves DON'T use. The reason being, if they used real-world attacks they wouldn't be able to give many locks a good grade. It's a confidence trick basically.

They use a little logical trick to justify this- most bike locks are broken with twist attacks, hammer blows, lightweight pliars etc, because most bike locks are utterly s**t. So Sold Secure etc can say "We use the methods used to steal most bikes". It's true. But those methods just don't work at all on half-decent locks and so they're totally irrelevant to the hardware being tested.

It's a bit like saying "Most houses are broken into by throwing a brick through a window. So the only attack method we test is bricks. We gave this front door lock a Gold award because we bounced bricks off it all day and it didn't break. No we didn't test it against anything that could break a door lock, why would we do that?"

The only thing it's good for is insurance, since some will require a Sold Secure lock to be used. Other than that it's a joke.

Anonymous

Steve_F wrote:

My mate had been biking with me, unloaded his car, washed his & his missus' bike in the back garden and they dissapeared that night. Someone had obviously spotted him unloading or cleaning the bikes and putting them in the shed. Open invitation unfortunately.

That makes you the prime suspect, still, at least you got two nice bikes out of it, eh?
That confirms that my decision to never clean my bike is a good one

Northwind

deadkenny wrote:

I thought D-locks just required a big heavy hammer to crack them?

Some do- they tend to be a bit overhardened which can make them brittle (but that's also why they're so resistant to cropper attacks). Overhardening a chain like English Chain Co does is less effective because it's easier to move a chain so that you can get a sledgehammer on them, at which point they'll break. But D-locks being smaller are harder to do that with, as long as you lock them clear of the ground.

Yeehaa and others are spot on, there's no such thing as complete security but a Big F**k Off Chain like Pragmasis or Almax do is as close as it gets, you need hydraulics or noisy attacks to break those just because of the size. A cheap massive chain will do the same but might have other weaknesses. And for portable security, a good quality d-lock is the way to go, they're not as strong but they're still pretty effective and they're far more practical.

I use a really crappy cable lock but then my commuter's worth about £50 and it's parked all day beside various £1000 road bikes that are locked up with even worse cable locks. So I don't worry

Anonymous

Steve_F wrote:

It isn't just the centres this can happen from, most of us will have the bike on top of/on the back of the car on the way home, easy to see it from round the corner.

My mate had been biking with me, unloaded his car, washed his & his missus' bike in the back garden and they dissapeared that night. Someone had obviously spotted him unloading or cleaning the bikes and putting them in the shed. Open invitation unfortunately.

One reason why I'm reluctant to get a rack even though it means inside of the car gets muddy.

And yeah, I'm wary about even unloading or loading the bike at home, especially given some of my neighbours (and 2 shed brake ins plus chased off dodgy bloke hanging around the garden). Still, the police helicopter hasn't been out my way for quite a while now so I think some of the little scrotes may have been locked up.

Anonymous

I have my bike guarded at all times by ninjas.

ooermissus

LjStronge wrote:

Fact is - my bike gets left NO WHERE.

It lives in my shed and ANY other time it is out of there I'm on it or standing next to it.

If it gets nicked from my shed, then insurance pays out, but that's the only time it is out of my site.

(It's only in the shed because the missus won't let me keep it in the bedroom!)

Read somewhere that 90% of bike thefts are from the home. Dunno whether that stat stands up though.

wordnumb

*AJ* wrote:

Nice of them to advertise to the theif that your bike has a poor quality lock! lol

They are, however, also advertising that the area is monitored by police / (soon to be no more) PCSOs from time to time. Maybe a tiny disincentive to a paranoid thief, who knows?

Northwind

I hate that logic, your lock's perfectly good as long as nobody's told you it's not. People actually blamed the cycling press for the kryptonite round lock thing, thieves had known for years and there's no doubt in my mind kryptonite knew it too but when it went public riders said "Now I need to change my lock!". Talk about head in the sand. Thieves know already, it's consumers that don't.

cee

erm...any one else notice that there seems to be a high edinburgh quotient in the "I knows about how to beat locks" stakes

Andy B

TuckerUK wrote:

Um, but surely the D-Lock goes round the frame too, and it would have to be a very determined thief to chop up the frame.

It's usually quicker to cut the frame than the lock (if it's a good lock), a thief is not going to care about damaging the bike, he can still sell the parts on for use on another frame

ride_whenever

Have any of you tried hammering a lock apart? It really isn't easy, even a tiny brass padlock is difficult. Twisting attacks tend to work much better.

I've not come across a cable lock that lasted more than about 30 seconds of fairly apathetic attack (I work in a bike shop and we offer a lock cutting service to some of our customers) and as for people with bikes in sheds, probably the worst place to keep them, as the thieves have a nice dry environment to quietly break the locks.