Four year bans on the way

hommelbier

At least that what Pat says he's in favour of.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/39953577/ns/sports/

With the current 2-year ban seemingly often shortened for various reasons, perhaps it is time a more meaningful period was enforced.

Hibbs

Would give them more scope for cutting deals. More riders would break Omerta if the alternative was a four year holiday rather than two.

iainf72

The Inner Ring says it best

http://theinnerring.blogspot.com/2010/1 ... maths.html

dave_1

sorry-off topic, but, like the 4 year ban-big change...on that point..you got to like Cav, professional cycling needs leaders like him..big names like him supporting what would be fairly radical reform

"The HTC-Columbia sprinter has said that the overnight controls are acceptable, as long as they are applied equally.

“We have to do anything we can to eliminate doping in cycling, so I'm ok with it,” he told TV2 Sporten, a Danish television show. “Of course it can disturb sleep and so affect your race performance. But as long as it is done equally for all, then it's ok.” "

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cavendi ... no-problem

dave_1

the good thing with a 4 year ban is it is creates vacancies for new riders the banned rider will find as coming back from 4 years off too hard. 4 years isn't a stronger deterent though

iainf72

Dave_1 wrote:

sorry-off topic, but, like the 4 year ban-big change...on that point..you got to like Cav, professional cycling needs leaders like him..big names like him supporting what would be fairly radical reform

Isn't this just like when he was Pat's poster boy for the daft "pay a years salary if you're caught doping" campaign.

If Cavendish got controlled at 3am and was beaten in a sprint later that day, I'd expect him to be blaming that for it and saying it's not acceptable.

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

sorry-off topic, but, like the 4 year ban-big change...on that point..you got to like Cav, professional cycling needs leaders like him..big names like him supporting what would be fairly radical reform

Isn't this just like when he was Pat's poster boy for the daft "pay a years salary if you're caught doping" campaign.

If Cavendish got controlled at 3am and was beaten in a sprint later that day, I'd expect him to be blaming that for it and saying it's not acceptable.

and he'd bloody well right to mention if he did lose a stage and was woke up at 3am the night before. He's on the record as agreeing. WTH else do you want him to say? And what's that junkie hero of yours..Basso..what's his view?

iainf72

Dave_1 wrote:

and he'd bloody well right to mention if he did lose a stage and was woke up at 3am the night before. He's on the record as agreeing. WTH else do you want him to say? And what's that junkie hero of yours..Basso..what's his view?

Surely if he agrees with it and was woken at 3am for a control, then lost a stage, he should just suck it up? That's what I mean, he'll say stuff like this until it adversely affects him and then he'll think it's an outrage.

DaveyL

Iain, you've attributed a reaction to Cavendish to an event that hasn't happened, and then made a judgement on him based on that.

Are you trying to get a gig as a journalist?

iainf72

DaveyL wrote:

Iain, you've attributed a reaction to Cavendish to an event that hasn't happened, and then made a judgement on him based on that.

Are you trying to get a gig as a journalist?

Cavendish is good for that kind of thing because he's so predictable. Loses, must be some external force to blame. Simples.

blazing_saddles

I'd be shocked if Cavendish didn't blame a 3am test visit for him losing a sprint, were it to happen in the future.
Thinking and speaking "off the cuff" are his trademark as is witnessed by this comment.

I wonder what he means by applied equally, though?
Maybe he means wake one sprinter at 3am, wake them all!

DaveyL

Blazing Saddles wrote:

I'd be shocked if Cavendish didn't blame a 3am test visit for him losing a sprint, were it to happen in the future.
Thinking and speaking "off the cuff" are his trademark as is witnessed by this comment.

I wonder what he means by applied equally, though?
Maybe he means wake one sprinter at 3am, wake them all!

So, *if* he did. Would that suddenly make it wrong?

Either it's a good idea or it's not. Are we debating this or are we debating how objective Cav is 60 seconds after a stage finish?

edhornby

bl00dy funny that mcQuaid wants a 4 year ban when he's been caught trying to sneak bertie out of a standard 2yr ban 'cos it wasn't much clenbuterol, so we'll give you a finish the season early jobbie and not tell anyone about it'

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

and he'd bloody well right to mention if he did lose a stage and was woke up at 3am the night before. He's on the record as agreeing. WTH else do you want him to say? And what's that junkie hero of yours..Basso..what's his view?

Surely if he agrees with it and was woken at 3am for a control, then lost a stage, he should just suck it up? That's what I mean, he'll say stuff like this until it adversely affects him and then he'll think it's an outrage.

Not surely..he'd be right to bring it up if it affected him..but he agrees with it. Would you prefer silence than someone going on the record which can then be used when they do complain?

inkyfingers

I think the night time testing is a good idea and good on Cav for publicly supporting it. However...if I was a GC rider the night before a big mountain stage or a sprinter the night before Paris i'd be pissed if I got woken up in the middle of the night but my rivals didn't.

sherer

iainf72 wrote:

The Inner Ring says it best

http://theinnerring.blogspot.com/2010/1 ... maths.html

agree in part but I think they are making the maths work in the favour to make a point.

blazing_saddles

inkyfingers wrote:

I think the night time testing is a good idea and good on Cav for publicly supporting it. However...if I was a GC rider the night before a big mountain stage or a sprinter the night before Paris i'd be pissed if I got woken up in the middle of the night but my rivals didn't.

+1
I wouldn't be surprised that this expresses how many forum posters feel.
However, it also highlights why many within the peloton are cool to the idea.

iainf72

Dave_1 wrote:

Not surely..he'd be right to bring it up if it affected him..but he agrees with it. Would you prefer silence than someone going on the record which can then be used when they do complain?

He's clearly not given it that much thought, because if you do (as this thread proves) you soon realise it could alter the outcome of races as much as doping. You don't wake up, pee in a bottle and back to sleep. It's a long process.

To be honest, Nibali's jokey suggestion may have some merit. Why not chaperone them for longer. Someone sleeping in the same room as you will prevent any dodginess and won't impact recovery.

I still like Ashenden's idea of photographing transfusion points every day and looking for evidence of transfusions. They use a large gauge needle AFAIK and there are limited places you could do it.

DaveyL

I think this is all slightly missing the point. There is no need to focus on what would happen the night before a big stage - that's not the only time riders shoot up.

A huge amount is done during training - riders take epo, growth hormone, testosterone to recover faster and train harder. They also withdraw blood, out of competition, for use in competition.

As Vaughters has said, his internal testing programme has called on riders during the night and as he said, not often enough that it becomes a problem, but often enough ti make the rides realize it could happen any time.

During an event, why not test them on the start line, and take some pictures as well, as iain suggests.

As for Cav, he's obviously been asked about this specifically, and has come forward with a robust and clearly anti-doping response, yet still gets criticized. Very odd.

DaveyL

Following on from Nibs's comment, I've had a great idea. Torri can "embed" himself with Liquigas during the Giro, a la Kimmage and Slipstream...

Pokerface

edhornby wrote:

bl00dy funny that mcQuaid wants a 4 year ban when he's been caught trying to sneak bertie out of a standard 2yr ban 'cos it wasn't much clenbuterol, so we'll give you a finish the season early jobbie and not tell anyone about it'

Oh look. Another poster who doesn't know what they are talking about :roll:

hommelbier

inkyfingers wrote:

I think the night time testing is a good idea and good on Cav for publicly supporting it. However...if I was a GC rider the night before a big mountain stage or a sprinter the night before Paris i'd be pissed if I got woken up in the middle of the night but my rivals didn't.

I dunno - I'm usually up about then for a pee anyway

iainf72

DaveyL wrote:

Following on from Nibs's comment, I've had a great idea. Torri can "embed" himself with Liquigas during the Giro, a la Kimmage and Slipstream...

And Kimmage at Sky...Oh, wait

While Cavendish made the "strong statement" it was clearly done on autopilot without any actual thought behind it. Could be he was put on the spot, who knows.

DaveyL

iainf72 wrote:

DaveyL wrote:

Following on from Nibs's comment, I've had a great idea. Torri can "embed" himself with Liquigas during the Giro, a la Kimmage and Slipstream...

And Kimmage at Sky...Oh, wait

While Cavendish made the "strong statement" it was clearly done on autopilot without any actual thought behind it. Could be he was put on the spot, who knows.

Even more likely than Cav blaming something/someone else for a defeat would be you screaming "conflict of interest" if Sunday Times journo Kimmage had embedded with Sky...

RichN95.

iainf72 wrote:

While Cavendish made the "strong statement" it was clearly done on autopilot without any actual thought behind it. Could be he was put on the spot, who knows.

But, he's always been someone who says what he thinks, regardless of the situation. He's not exactly one for PR niceties.

hommelbier

inkyfingers wrote:

I think the night time testing is a good idea and good on Cav for publicly supporting it. However...if I was a GC rider the night before a big mountain stage or a sprinter the night before Paris i'd be pissed if I got woken up in the middle of the night but my rivals didn't.

Still off topic but it seems as night time testing has started already (altho' Benoit Daeninck is a new name to me - Roubaix Lille Metropole, ex trackie)

http://www.velo-club.net/article?sid=60607