is the market moving toward...

bluechair84

Electricity?
With the popularity of computers, growth of power meters, the future of electric gears, commuting lights... and the lack of GPS trackers designed for bikes, do you think there is a market for harnesing a bikes lost energy to charge a permanent power source fitted within the bike? I know riders are reluctant to use things like tyre-dynamos becuase they sap energy from the rider. I've ordered a device that I am going to test and possibly prototype and will need significant modification to do exactly what i want... but... do you think there will be a market in the future for a device that is capable of picking up wasted energy to power devices around the bike (low amp applications, not a fliping motor )

supersonic

I have seen hub dynamos that harness electricity when braking.

bluechair84

How much heavier are they than a normal hub?

supersonic

Not sure. Aint light lol, but it does replace a rotor.

bluechair84

What I have in mind won't add to rotating mass and have a net gain of 175g ish. I've yet to find out how many amps it can produce but it won't be as much as a hub dynamo. And it could be retro fitted to most modern mountain bikes.

supersonic

Interesting!

the_lone_wolf

Lost energy???

I convert my lost energy into SPEED!!!!!!

ashleymp777

This will be a laugh! So what are you going to prototype then?

cooldad

Bikes are already too involved, I think I might get some sandals, grow a beard, and buy a fixie.

bluechair84

the_lone_wolf wrote:

Lost energy???

I convert my lost energy into SPEED!!!!!!

N sell it on the street to kids eh? eh!?
Mine is pure organic energy recooperation. But I'm not sure what it can be used for yet.

bluechair84

ashleymp777 wrote:

This will be a laugh! So what are you going to prototype then?

Laugh away 8) I want to have a play with it first before I reveal all. It might be rubbish, so I don't want anyone to pooh pooh it before I've had the opportunity to see for myself.
As I've said, I wonder if there is a trend to power based components and what things might benefit from being charged by the bike. I know loads of people moan about change, growth and development but if a component works and it needs leccy, I might have an idea.

ashleymp777

So basically you're copying F1 with the kinetic energy generators when electronic gear shifting is finally sorted for MTBs.

The Northern Monkey

Might be more use to roadies or commuters but its a good idea for a money maker if you can get it to work without weighing 5tonnes.

Anonymous

bluechair84 wrote:

I know riders are reluctant to use things like tyre-dynamos becuase they sap energy from the rider.

Erm, you DO realise, right, that any electricity you generate has to take energy from SOMEWHERE?

The one place I can think of that it would not actually hinder the rider is to use the disc rotor and calliper as a generator, but only have it active under braking, so it induces no drag.
If you're getting anything out of it when you're not braking, then you're adding a load that the rider has to overcome.

joshtp

yeehaamcgee wrote:

bluechair84 wrote:

I know riders are reluctant to use things like tyre-dynamos becuase they sap energy from the rider.

Erm, you DO realise, right, that any electricity you generate has to take energy from SOMEWHERE?

The one place I can think of that it would not actually hinder the rider is to use the disc rotor and calliper as a generator, but only have it active under braking, so it induces no drag.
If you're getting anything out of it when you're not braking, then you're adding a load that the rider has to overcome.

bang on! And, in theory... even a braking thing will reduce the power of the brakes... energy can never be created or lost.

Anonymous

No, Josh, using the rotor's energy and turning into electrcity will not impact breaking.
All a conventional brake does anyway is take kinetic energy and turn it into something else (heat).
If you could convert some of the enrgy into electricity, then less energy would be expended as heat.

bluechair84

Wasted energy can be harnessed, you just have to convert it from it's useless state and back into something useful. It will take away no energy from the rider. I don't know if it will actually generate all that much electricity. Certainly not enough to power a light, maybe a little LED warning light - a GPS tracker that isn't always on, could possibly keep up the charge in the shimano dyna-sys transmission. I'm curious if designers are looking a solution or have batteries come so far that no one really cares about conjuring a few measly amps

Anonymous

So where exactly are you looking at wasted energy in a bike then?
If you were to use the suspension action, then you would impact the suspension's responsiveness.
If you were to stick it anywhere on the drive train, you would be putting more load on the rider.
The only possible place i can think of is, like I said on the brakes, when they're used.

Taking energy from anywhere else is either going to impact the bike in unwanted ways, or produce so very little energy that it would be useless.

cooldad

Glue magnets to the wheels and wind coils around the forks and you have a generator.

cycleschemie

^^^^

what cooldad said. Although it has been done already, of course.

joshtp

yeehaamcgee wrote:

No, Josh, using the rotor's energy and turning into electrcity will not impact breaking.
All a conventional brake does anyway is take kinetic energy and turn it into something else (heat).
If you could convert some of the enrgy into electricity, then less energy would be expended as heat.

sorry... not thinking right... your right.

joshtp

cooldad wrote:

Glue magnets to the wheels and wind coils around the forks and you have a generator.

that could totally work!!!!

Anonymous

cooldad wrote:

Glue magnets to the wheels and wind coils around the forks and you have a generator.

And when you have a generator, you're going to need energy to put into it to make electricity. When you put energy in, you are putting a load on the rider.
Without increasing the load on the rider, you can't generate electricity. If you have so little load as to not be noticed, then you will creating so little electricity, as to not be noticed.

And besides, there is a much more efficient way of extracting electrical energy from the wheel, it's called a dynamo. People already dislike them because of the load it puts on the rider.

cooldad

cycleschemie wrote:

^^^^

what cooldad said. Although it has been done already, of course.

Bugger thought I was about to get rich.

cooldad

yeehaamcgee wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Glue magnets to the wheels and wind coils around the forks and you have a generator.

And when you have a generator, you're going to need energy to put into it to make electricity. When you put energy in, you are putting a load on the rider.
Without increasing the load on the rider, you can't generate electricity. If you have so little load as to not be noticed, then you will creating so little electricity, as to not be noticed.

And besides, there is a much more efficient way of extracting electrical energy from the wheel, it's called a dynamo. People already dislike them because of the load it puts on the rider.

Or you could use a motion you practise regularly.

Anonymous

rudedog

I've thougth about this before too - there is an awful lot of energy that get wasted on a bike - from both braking and suspension.

Anonymous

hmm I suppose if you replace the damping medium, with a means of generating, then yeah.

ride_whenever

I want a 20mm bolt through SON dynamo with a 6-bolt fitting, would be ideal for enduro events with the new 20mm 120mm travel sid...

joshtp

yeehaamcgee wrote:

hmm I suppose if you replace the damping medium, with a means of generating, then yeah.

nice idea that!

how about having a threaded rod, that the piston moves up and down, and in doing so turns the rod and turns a tiny dynamo.... with the correct thread it could work in place of a damper for rebound at least.. would be hard to adjust though, as you would (most likely) have to replace the rod and piston with a tighter/ more open thread. And for Compression it would likely add too much stiction to be useful for anything other than a heavy compression damp.... and speed sensitivity would be impossible.... thinking about it it would actually be really hard, and possibly only practicably for XC, marathon and touring. Still, its an idea...

gtd.

Was thinking of something similar the other day

how about a external bearing BB with magnets in the shaft that connects the cranks and field coils in the BB shell

any pedalling would be converted into electrical energy cant see it having much if any drag as it would be in the BB and would be using the BB bearings.