can carbon be trusted..

lesz42

carbon in bikes is fine, as said before, long as its built right


as sonic has said, soon it will be the norm, we will be looking back at alloy frames, like we do steel

Anonymous

You mean only weird beardy hippy types will buy aluminium bikes, and they'll claim it's all about the "soul" and the "feel"?

lesz42

yeehaamcgee wrote:

You mean only weird beardy hippy types will buy aluminium bikes, and they'll claim it's all about the "soul" and the "feel"?

yeah that!"

Mccraque

Interesting debate.

A good friend of mine works for McLaren and he was wondering why they had a carbon specialized mtb frame in their lab...

They were testing carbon for use in F1 cars. And came to the conclusion that although carbon is a very strong and light material, the main problem lies with the fact that you cannot detect damage very easily.

So - to use the above example....dropping 1kg on an aluminium frame will put a big dent in it. Carbon may not show any outward signs of degradation. However, the damage is likely to have been done. Not easily detectable and requires a machine capable of special analysis to detect this (I think he said it was a sonicwave type thing...but I am no techie)

You then get left with unpredictable failure whereas the alu frame you can see is f**ked,

bluechair84

I saw this prototyped at Fort Bill a few years ago, I don't think it's been taken off the market yet.


article on BR

GT state on their webby that it was the first and is still the only Carbon DH bike.

joshtp

bluechair84 wrote:

I saw this prototyped at Fort Bill a few years ago, I don't think it's been taken off the market yet.


article on BR

GT state on their webby that it was the first and is still the only Carbon DH bike.

Yep... great bike.... been racing - and winning for a few years.


Not the only carbon DH bike now though.... V10 carbon....

Anonymous

To be fair, it's not been winning much. Close on a few occasions, and one world cup win that I can think of.
Awesome machine though.
Having said that, I think I'd prefer mine with pedals.

bluechair84

yeehaamcgee wrote:

To be fair, it's not been winning much. Close on a few occasions, and one world cup win that I can think of.
Awesome machine though.
Having said that, I think I'd prefer mine with pedals.

Real riders 'scoot'

joshtp

yeehaamcgee wrote:

To be fair, it's not been winning much. Close on a few occasions, and one world cup win that I can think of.
Awesome machine though.
Having said that, I think I'd prefer mine with pedals.

true.. but I think this is down to not having the best riders on the team.... I know Slugger is a top rider on his day, but he's inconsistent... GT as a brand cant attract the best riders... Santacruz commencal and Specialized share most of the medals, with a few yeti's, intences and other smaller brands in there too, depending on who has a good week, and the type of track. (talking about the world cup circuit here) But that doesn't mean they are the best bikes... They are very good, but part of it is having the top teams.

The Evil Revolt Lappiere 920, Mondraker Summum, and RockyMountain Flatline (to name but a few, there are many more) are all top, top bikes that really could win races week in week out, but the smaller brands, and smaller budgets and the like mean they simply can't get the top riders, and the riders, not the bikes, win races.


Race results are not the measure of a bike, although obviously they do have an effect.


If I was buying a DH bike tomorrow it would not be a commy, a SC or a specialized. I'm not sure what it would be, but a Summum would be near the top of my list.

bluechair84

joshtp wrote:

If I was buying a DH bike tomorrow it would not be a commy, a SC or a specialized. I'm not sure what it would be, but a Summum would be near the top of my list.

You're coming up to 3000 posts - Sonic might turn up at your door with a Summum seeing as he hasn't turned up on my door today. Get ready for the ballons!

Anonymous

Oh don't get me wrong, I was not knocking the bike, I was just pointing out that saying they've been winning for a few years was being a bit optimistic.

Oh, also, maybe it's worth discussing how the SC V10 carbon has gone down the lightweight route, but GT's Force Carbon is not actually any lighter than the alloy (just to annoy the pedants) version, it's supposed to just be stiffer and stronger.

joshtp

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Oh don't get me wrong, I was not knocking the bike, I was just pointing out that saying they've been winning for a few years was being a bit optimistic.

fair enough... I like to think it's winning because I like the Bike.... It's been winning in my mind!!!!

joshtp

3001! Where's sonic?!?!?! :?

bike-a-swan

yeehaamcgee wrote:

not actually any lighter than the alloy (just to annoy the pedants) version

NatoED

bluechair84 wrote:

I saw this prototyped at Fort Bill a few years ago, I don't think it's been taken off the market yet.


article on BR

GT state on their webby that it was the first and is still the only Carbon DH bike.

Apart from the GT lobo in 1997? carbon with Alu lugs


and the cannondale Raven from the same year. which was also a Dh bike with the 'dale triple clamp fork.

Anonymous

Wasn't the Lobo thermoplastic? And half the dale alloy (just to annoy the pedants )

supersonic

Yes, the Lobo and STS was some thermoplastic composite. It may have had some carbon fibres in their, not sure.

bluechair84

aaah thermoplastic... and we worry about the capabilities of carbon fibre

Thewaylander

Well think of the Material properties.

Carbon is very stiff and has a high tensile strength when set properly. But it is far more brittle than metal. This combined witht eh weave can make it splinter under sharp hits like rocks but this would require a fairly specific hit. But from a force point of veiw it can take everything we can chuck at it for sure.

With the it will become the norm, I doubt it working with Carbon to make a bike isn't that easy, MOlding a frame, Joining and so on isn't really that easy and when your moulds only last a year (as we have new bikes every season) its pricy to run, I think Carbon until more sensible mass market solution hit will remain as high end gear for the forseeable future.

I personaly Wouldn't ride a Carbon bike but thats because i have seen one splinter and its scared me, but then If i'd seen an ALu bike snap I probably would go back to steel lol.

Anonymous

I don't know where this idea of carbon being stiff comes from. You can change it's behaviour depending on how it's weaved.
For example, it's commonly used in places where a bit of controlled flex is desirable.

joshtp

yeehaamcgee wrote:

I don't know where this idea of carbon being stiff comes from. You can change it's behaviour depending on how it's weaved.
For example, it's commonly used in places where a bit of controlled flex is desirable.

exactly. Think Cannondale scalpel.

Thewaylander

Sorry should have said can be.

It's all to do with the weave, and setting process, but again these are the processes that make it cost a packet

.kyle

Thewaylander wrote:

its pricy to run, I think Carbon until more sensible mass market solution hit will remain as high end gear for the forseeable future.

Using forged composites could become the future of inexpensive carbon bikes (as well as for other products)

milfredo

My carbon bike has performed flawlessly over the past year and my carbon bars have lasted 4 or so years and are looking a little mangled now.

My friends carbon framed Stumpy's alloy rear triangle just failed catastrofically but the carbon frame it was attached to it fine. Everything can fail, alloy frames do bend but when they break (as seen on firends mtb) it's not pretty.

Horses for courses but I doubt I would go back to alloy now as I'm scared my bike will implode underneith me. If anything there would be a large cracking noise and you would stop to see what it was... same as alloy (steel or Aluminium).

Northwind

yeehaamcgee wrote:

I don't know where this idea of carbon being stiff comes from. You can change it's behaviour depending on how it's weaved.
For example, it's commonly used in places where a bit of controlled flex is desirable.

Fishing rods

Anonymous

I know nothing of fishing rods, apart from that Shimano make reels, which are supposed to be nice.
Is it an advantage for a rod to flex?

joshtp

yeehaamcgee wrote:

I know nothing of fishing rods, apart from that Shimano make reels, which are supposed to be nice.
Is it an advantage for a rod to flex?

depends what type of fishing... but yes.

Thewaylander

To a degree,Y adon't want no fish snapping your brittle rod... SOme of those sucks can pull damn it.

Andy!

yeehaamcgee wrote:

I know nothing of fishing rods, apart from that Shimano make reels, which are supposed to be nice.
Is it an advantage for a rod to flex?

Carbon rods are amazing.

I couldn't give a crap about them myself but the missus is into her fly fishing and used to work for one of the rod makers in the north east and the flex they get is fantastic.

i still have no interest in the fishing though, I've said she can go fish somewhere as long as I can take my bike and go off with the dog all day and them come back and eat what she has caught and cooked


Oh and for the record and going back to the original discussion - I have a lot of experience breaking carbon and metals - do i worry about carbon parts? yes. Do I also worry about aluminium - hell yes! I have just bought a carbon frame

Anonymous

Fly fishing? Doesn't she prefer to catch fish :?