Dawes Espoir v Isla Bikes Luath 26

hammerite

Looking at both of the above for the boy, who is 9. Both look spot on size wise from looking at the size guides. He wants it for road riding/racing and cyclocross racing

He's not great at using his gears yet, but has used them more when riding a bike with STI levers (current road bike had downtube shifter converted to SIS levers).

http://www.islabikes.co.uk/bike_pages/luath26.html

http://www.bikes2udirect.com/B3196.html

Any tips, recommendations or advice on either?

(also posted on "Road")

ah_whitt

I'm in the same position with a 9yr old, just wondering what alternatives there are to Islabikes or whether to just go with one anyway.

I've been recommended the Luath 700 Small by friends with lads the same age/height (4ft 8" or 142cm and inside leg of 69cm) - any thoughts on this?

Can the Dawes be used for Cyclo-X, I'd be interested if that was the case.

Alternatively anyone recommend frame only.

Cheers Alison

Mike Healey

ah_whitt wrote:

I've been recommended the Luath 700 Small by friends with lads the same age/height (4ft 8" or 142cm and inside leg of 69cm) - any thoughts on this?

Can the Dawes be used for Cyclo-X, I'd be interested if that was the case.

Cheers Alison

Espoir also has cantilever brakes. Quote from one of the sites:

The Dawes Espoir 3000 has been carefully designed to be a perfect junior road bike. With its proportioned cranks and handlebars, a mudguard compatible frame and a specification specifically designed to enable the rider to convert it to a cyclo-cross bike the Espoir really is an ideal starter bike for the little racer.

• Colour: White
• Sizes: 14" frame, 24" or 26” wheel
• Frame: Alloy junior road frame
• Spec: Steel road forks, Elan alloy wheels, Narrow junior road bars, 16 speed Shimano gears with STI shifters, Alloy cantilever brakes

hammerite

I've seen both being used for local CX races. I was going to talk to some of the kids with both bikes this weekend and have a look at their bikes but couldn't get to the race early enough to see the U10s race (as our lad wasn't racing himself).

I called Isla Bikes up about their sizing, they recommended the 26, not the 700. This is based on our lads height of 147cm, and inside leg of 66cm. I was wondering whether he'd need the 700, but the guys at Isla said the inside leg measurement is more important than height. They also said that the 26 would have plenty of room for growth.

I've e-mailed Dawes to ask about the weight of the Espoir, so I could compare it with the Isla, but yet to receive anything.

hammerite

That's a bit freaky! Had an e-mail from Dawes with the answers just now....

The Espoir 26" weighs 11.5kg and the gear ratios are 42/34 for the front chainwheel and 11/32 cassette.

Checking the spec on the Isla Bikes website - 9.8kg
36 chainring.
11-34 cassette.

Based on that and the usual good sell on value I think Isla is defo the winner.

ah_whitt

Thanks for your posts, it's interesting how different their measurements are. We're hopefully trying out our friend's Isla this weekend for size.

I had also realised the Dawes was quite a bit heavier.

Will watch out for second hand and then buy new if necessary.

Other ideas still appreciated.

Cheers Alison

zebra67

Can those weight stats be right? My son has a Luath 26 and when we inspected the Espoir at a local shop we were all (husband too) convinced that it was much lighter than the Luath. My son is very keen to upgrade to the Dawes for road racing! I guess we will have to double check before we buy (bring our own scales to the shop?!)

That said, I am disappointed to discover that the Dawes Tracker (24" hybrid) is heavier (12.3kg) than the comparable Islabike Beinn 24 (10.3kg) or even Specialised Hotrock 24 (11.1kg).

As for alternatives, I am obsessed with examining road racing-style kids bikes when possible, there are some nice small frame Treks and Giants out there, but I don't know about all their specs or relative value for money stats. I was also impressed by a small Decathalon frame bike (but apparently these are only sold in their European stores now, not in Britain).

The tricky thing I find with sizing is not in the inside leg, btw, but in the reach (Cross bar length and manging handlebars confidently). We are looking at an Islabike Beinn 24" for my 9yo (she is small for age). Her inside leg is fine on a Beinn 26, but the reach to the handlebars is a bit much; we found the same when we originally put my 9yo son (also then small for age) on a Luath 26"; it was a bit too much bike for him to handle.

hammerite

Sorry not checked on here for a while. Not sure about weights of the bikes, these are only what Dawes sent me, and Isla have on their website. I've actually looked at both when other kids have had them at races, and picked both up - but not had them side by side to compare.

The size of the Luath 26 should be fine for Jnr, he's been using a bigger bike (equivalent size of Luath 700) for racing most of this cross season (borrowed) and he's managed ok, although he has an obsession to race on the drops which is far too much of a stretch for him!

Well shortly be putting a Decathlon kids road bike on eBay.

Magman1

I know this is an old post, but did any of the original posters go ahead and buy either the Islabikes or the Dawes - what was the verdict?

My nine and six year old have been riding road races and cyclo cross with their Ecole de Velo in France but the Decathlon drop handlebar bikes I bought secondhand for them have 25in wheels and I couldn't get any knobbly tyres to fit!

I assume with the 26in Dawes you can actually buy cyclo cross tyres to fit?

My nine year old is so fuelled up having sprinted into second place narrowly missing a win in his Pupille category last weekend in Brittany that tomorrow we are buying him the Orbea Aqua Junior which is about 600 Euros here. Still not solved the cyclo cross problem though as there's nowhere near enough clearance for cross tyres!

Ho-hum.

othello

Friends of ours have just bought their son the Decathlon junior road bike. Decathlon UK imported it from a French store free of charge now.

About half the price of the Isla and looks pretty similar, apart from the gears being on the handlebar not part of the brake levers.

hammerite

Sorry only just seen this.

We did buy the Isla bike, and we're very impressed. The one thing that grabbed me was how light it feels, kids bikes can feel like tanks when you pick them up, but this is really light.
Good quality components, Jnr finds it comfortable to ride. Changing gear is a lot easier as it's got normal ergo shifters.

We had a kids Decathlon road bike previously for Jnr and it was a lot heavier, and had bar top STI shifters (converted from downtube). As a younger rider Jnr struggled to control the bike properly to change gear, so he used to race in one gear pretty much - looked pretty painful climbing on some courses!

I don't know much about the Decathlon bike that othello mentions, but it's probably not a cross bike. The Isla has cantilever brakes, and clearances for cross tyres, and the eventual build up of mud! We just stick road tyres on it this time of year, come September the cross tyres will go back on (26x1.35 Schwalbe CX Comp)

zebra67

This month's CTC mag compares the two closely & says some valuable things in favour of both (and in favour of alternatives, even). Aug-Sep 2011 issue.

Tom Butcher

My 9 year old twins have an Isla 26 and a Kona Jake 2-4 (no longer made) cyclo cross bikes. The smaller of the two of them is really a touch too small for the Isla 26 so I think for your average 9 year old then that would be the bike to go for - but for a kid slightly under average height it might be a little bit of a struggle though being a confident bike handler always helps and my son isn't that confident yet.

If you see a Kona they are slightly smaller bikes but a good alternative - plus you can spin the seatpost and still keep the saddle level to shorten the reach - I know this isn't ideal but with growing kids you have to make a few compromises. I think it probably weighs a little bit more than the Luath but it has a more compact frame making it easier for shorter kids and they tend to sell for a little less than the Islas. The Isla has cross brakes on the tops though which are an advantage.

Pseudonym

Bear in mind, the Dawes may be heavier, but it is not inherently heavier. The Isla has skinnier/lighter tyres and no front mech/front shifter or cable to add to the weight. The weight of the Dawes (which isn't that bad to start with) can easily be reduced by removing these items, which you don't really need anyway, as BC's youth gearing restrictions effectively preclude the need for two rings at the front. Obviously you can't remove the front shifter on the Dawes (not without buying a replacement lever), but you can remove the cable & outer. For some reason best known to Dawes, the 24 and 26 bikes both have stupidly long 80mm stems, which I have replaced with 60mm items (about £8 each off ebay).

If you do all this, you will have a credible youth racer which still works out a fair bit cheaper than an Islabike, as well as being closer in weight. While alternative tyres for the Espoir 26 shouldn't be a problem, the only issue you will have is finding a skinny tyre to fit the Espoir 24's 507 rims - basically there aren't any. Islabikes have theirs specially made and will not sell them to infidels (ie Dawes owners, like me) - which is a shame, because at the moment they could name their price and sell them all day long, if they did.

I think you will see a couple of 23c/25c 507 tyres becoming available next year though, possibly more if Islabikes wakes up to the opportunity in the meantime...

bold seagull

zebra67 wrote:

This month's CTC mag compares the two closely & says some valuable things in favour of both (and in favour of alternatives, even). Aug-Sep 2011 issue.

Useful article still 2 years on!

http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_member/201109056.pdf