if this was you or me would we get the same treatment ?
northernneil
Posts: 1,549
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5hQA-QudUDqpEYGh-pCZHyxsYKUbQ?docId=B39687481288283832A00
obviously we would not be on a 999 call and with blue lights ... but still ... hmmm
obviously we would not be on a 999 call and with blue lights ... but still ... hmmm
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Can't really say, and I certainly hope I (and everyone one else on here) never have to find out.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
How would this ever be you or me etc then?......If I were doing 55mph in a pedestrian area and killed a teenager as a result of ignorant speeding then I would expect to be locked up.
That is different in everyway to what actually happened in this case.0 -
A friend of mine has died yesterday in a similar situation and it's just an extremely difficult situation to comprehend unfortunately.For professional MTB & BMX coaching, training & guiding!
www.pedaltoprogression.com0 -
Awful incident. But theyve had all of the evidence so they have come to the right decision.
The cyclist didnt look to see a police car with blue flashing lights on.0 -
A very unfortunate incident, but the correct decision has been reached according to the facts reported.0
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Not all the evidence was heard though was it? Shameful.The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.0 -
Cleat Eastwood wrote:Not all the evidence was heard though was it? Shameful.
What was not heard then because from my viewpoint on that story there is not a lot that could be included that would change the outcome of a cyclist crossing when he shouldn't in front of a police car with his Blues going and getting hit.
I would almost be 100% certain though that the driver was a local bobby in something like an Astra and not a proper Advanced driver as having sat next to one many times and listened to the running commentary they do they would almost certainly have seen the cyclist and the crossing and and accounted for the possibility of the eventual outcome, in this instance, and slowed down.
Also was the child doing out at that time of night! half midnight at 16 in east london!!!FCN 7
FCN 4
if you use irrational measures to measure me, expect me to behave irrationally to measure up0 -
Its the driver who i feel for, having to live with the fact that they have killed a teenager with a long life ahead of them. Accident obviously but still someones life.pain is weakness leaving the body...0
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Funnily when the police look into a crash they no longer call it an RTA as the accident part of it doesn't apply. Its now called an RTC as 'there is no such thing as an accident' Words spoken to me by a very aggressive policeman at the scene of an accident. :roll:
Police do have a difficult job but I wonder if more caution should have been shown at the lights as its a potential hazard. Advance drivers would sharpen up and prepare near a such an obvious hazard surely.
On the flip side pedestrians do not have right of way on a zebra crossing until they actually step on it. I know I wouldn't cross one without looking. So the victim is equally culpable.
Thing is it is drummed into us that speed kills. Its 30 mph because of the hazards. The officer obviously got his judgement wrong resulting in a death otherwise the percieved hazards would have made him slow down. Perhaps he wasn't fit to drive that fast?
Without all the facts its difficult to judge and the press only report the bits they feel like.
Terrible for the family and terrible for the officer. Both going to suffer for a long while.Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel0 -
Rules are for fools.0
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So officer responds to an emergency call - obeys all the laws of the road that any other driver is expected to, gets there too late and crime has been committed, criminal escaped and potentially there is a victim dead or seriously injured. Officer gets criticised by public / media for not getting there sooner. Same officer responds and drives faster than the limit, knocks someone down at a crossing where he had a green light - gets criticised by the public / media. It really is a no win situation. Surely everyone using the road has a responsibility for their own safety and that includes checking thoroughly before crossing a road, especially if you do not have a green signal? Everyday I see dozens of people walk across the road at junctions totally oblivious to the world around them, often on phones or plugged into an MP3 player and wonder why they are so sure of their own invincibility.0
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Would the OP please justify his implication that the officer on duty has got away with something here.0
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just re read the original post and can only assume you were asking
'if we too had foolishly stepped out into the road on a 'don't walk' signal could we expect to get the same treatment, ie killed or seriously injured.
Yes we could.0 -
I'm still waiting for an explanation for this:Cleat Eastwood wrote:Not all the evidence was heard though was it? Shameful.
It seems that every car vs bike incident is now the fault of the motorist, regardless of the circumstances...Rules are for fools.0 -
jim453 wrote:just re read the original post and can only assume you were asking
'if we too had foolishly stepped out into the road on a 'don't walk' signal could we expect to get the same treatment, ie killed or seriously injured.
Yes we could.
There's no such thing in the UK, you can walk whenever you want as we don't have a jay walking law. All a green man is telling you is that the other traffic should have stopped but cross with caution, a red man is saying traffic has a green light so if you are going to cross check it's safe. Either way the person crossing is responsible for ensuring it is safe to do so.0 -
Pross wrote:jim453 wrote:just re read the original post and can only assume you were asking
'if we too had foolishly stepped out into the road on a 'don't walk' signal could we expect to get the same treatment, ie killed or seriously injured.
Yes we could.
There's no such thing in the UK, you can walk whenever you want as we don't have a jay walking law. All a green man is telling you is that the other traffic should have stopped but cross with caution, a red man is saying traffic has a green light so if you are going to cross check it's safe. Either way the person crossing is responsible for ensuring it is safe to do so.
I'm not sure what your point is here. I don't think jim453 was suggesting we do have jaywalking laws. In terms of pelican crossings, the Highway Code states "When the red figure shows, do not cross." Stepping out when a red man is showing is indeed foolish and can indeed lead you to get KSI'd.Rules are for fools.0 -
Waddlie wrote:[I'm not sure what your point is here. I don't think jim453 was suggesting we do have jaywalking laws. In terms of pelican crossings, the Highway Code states "When the red figure shows, do not cross." Stepping out when a red man is showing is indeed foolish and can indeed lead you to get KSI'd.
Of course, but then so can stepping out on a green man without checking first. If you check before crossing on a red man then unless there is restricted visibility it is no less safe than crossing on a green man. The Highway Code gets quoted far too often considering it is not a regulatory document, why not cross on a red man if you can see the road is clear for a safe distance in each direction? OK, if you get knocked down and killed crossing on green the driver may get prosecuted but you are still dead! I guess the point I'm trying to make (obviously badly) is you need to check it's safe irrespective of the colour of the signal.0 -
No, I dont think we would get the same treatment, but then again, we shouldn't!
He was on a 999 call, responding to an emergency, I think it was just a very sad accident.
If I had been the cyclist, I wouldn't have wanted the officer to be prosecuted, he will have to deal with this for the rest of his life.
If anything it was more the cyclists fault for not looking, but again, I think it was just a very unfortunate accident0 -
NN I think you've missed the point on this one its a terrible accident but the cop was doing nothing wrong and a quick google map shows it to be pretty straight and a part residential area, at half past midnight the sirens may have alerted the cyclist as it's harder to not hear than not look but to do the siren thing every time and for all 3 services would upset a lot of locals very regularly for the minimal risk of what happened.
we get the same courtesy after dark of a very clearly visible bright blue flashing light but no siren.
this time its the cyclist that has failed in their duty of care to themself much more than it being a failing of the cop/car0 -
Difficult one this ..........
Better to arrive safely than not all.
Isn't part of police driver training to anticipate the hazards and drive appropriatly? If it is and he was driving correctly and still an accident happens then maybe the guidelines need re thinking or training nedds to be improved.
Wonder what the statistics are for traffic accidents involving the police, prosecutions, %blame etc?Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel0 -
I had a head on collision with a police car a few years back. It was overtaking as I came round a corner on a narrow and dark country road. He had his blue light on, but no siren (not that I saw the former until it was too late, or could have heard the latter).
I don't remember how fast we were going on impact, but we must have both braked like crazy as injuries were relatively minor. I'd been doing 55mph when I saw him, and he was probably going faster. Both cars were written off.
I helped the cop out his car and asked him where he was going in such a hurry. His reply: "to attend an RTA." My response: "well you got there quicker than you expected."
Another policeman came to see me the next day and asked if I thought the guy should be prosecuted. I said I didn't see much point as he was just trying to do his job (albeit in a stupid and reckless fashion).
They'd have thrown the book at me if it had been the other way round though. :?0 -
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ooermissus wrote:
They'd have thrown the book at me if it had been the other way round though. :?
and him if he'd not been going to an emergency with lights on and undoubtedly tasked to do so by comms.
the police do take investigating their own quite seriously, in a previous life I had to print traffic cam pics to dis/prove officers claims to be in pursuit/ showing lights in relation to RLJ's etc0 -
shouldbeinbed wrote:ooermissus wrote:
They'd have thrown the book at me if it had been the other way round though. :?
and him if he'd not been going to an emergency with lights on and undoubtedly tasked to do so by comms.
There is no excuse for overtaking on a corner. Even the police officer investigating described his colleague's driving as 'idiotic'.0 -
It alsways strikes me as odd that the police manage to kill so many people on emergency runs while fire and ambulance services manage not to.
strange isn't it? Wonder why that is?Hello! I've been here over a month now.0 -
electric_blue wrote:It alsways strikes me as odd that the police manage to kill so many people on emergency runs while fire and ambulance services manage not to.
strange isn't it? Wonder why that is?
You appear to have magic'd a fact out of nowehere.
Or perhaps you've got the KSI per km stats for each emergency service whilst responding to emergency calls?
Oh, you haven't?
Oh.Rules are for fools.0 -
electric_blue wrote:It alsways strikes me as odd that the police manage to kill so many people on emergency runs while fire and ambulance services manage not to.
strange isn't it? Wonder why that is?
WTF?
Where's the stats to back that up?
KSI's per KM driven?
Police are 1st on the scene at most accidents, that's fo' sho'.0 -
electric_blue wrote:It alsways strikes me as odd that the police manage to kill so many people on emergency runs while fire and ambulance services manage not to.
strange isn't it? Wonder why that is?
:shock: Stop talking rubbish!0 -
65 police crashes each week. 150 people killed since 2004. Hardly a great record.0
