Living/ Working in Scotland
Comments
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Tom Butcher wrote:I've known a few people suffer anti English trouble in Scotland but only seriously for their kids at school. If I didn't have kids I wouldn't worry too much about it - it's just a minority of idiots. Just anecdotally I've found the East coast around Perth to be worse than the West but I might be biased as my family are from Renfrewshire.
I disagree with the poster who said it's the same for Scots who move to England - in general I reckon there is more anti English sentiment north of the border than anti Scottish sentiment south of it.
My daughter is in Primary One and the only issue we've had so far is the other kids (& parents) think she's posh. She was born in Glasgow to an Aberdonian mother and an Essex boy dad, so therefore her accent is decidedly "bohemian".
Oh & here's another thing, West Central Scotland schools, the letter is JAY not JYE, grrrrrr0 -
Fixed that for youRetro1702 wrote:Oh & here's another thing, West Central Scotland schools, why can't you pronounce things the English way like you ought to0 -
Weejie54 wrote:Don't go, I'm from the west coast (Irvine)...
How very rational. I don't think the OP was considering Irvine. You didn't like your home town, so you advise anyone thinking of moving to another town in the same country against it based on that experience.
BTW, I know Irvine well. It has some pretty rough areas, but I have some very genuine friends there. I know some rough areas in Cumbria too - and have come across some pretty bigoted people there. It doesn't stop me from having fond memories of my days working there.
Nah, basing it on the facts, Glasgow is just as bad. He asked for opinions and I gave mine, just as you gave yours, obviously I ruffled your feathers as you are a weejie. Do you deny the wide streak of secterianism that runs through Scotland ? Seperate schools, Orange Order marches and bands etc ?0 -
Do you deny the wide streak of secterianism that runs through Scotland ?
In my experience it stops about 30 miles outside of Glasgow. I'm from Inverness, have lived in Aberdeen and spent time in many other parts of Scotland. It's a non-issue outside of Strathclyde (thankfully).
In my experience Scotland is a very tolerant society. In particular, folk such as Polish immigrants seem to have had a much easier time up here than down south.http://www.strathspey.co.uk - Quality Binoculars at a Sensible Price.
Specialized Roubaix SL3 Expert 2012, Cannondale CAAD5,
Marin Mount Vision (1997), Edinburgh Country tourer, 3 cats!0 -
By all accounts it is bad in parts of the west, but I have never come across it in Dundee, which does have a large Irish immigrant population (basically the cause off the problem in Glasgow), and as for separate schools, that's the first time I've ever heard that there are no catholic schools in England :?:dmclite wrote:Do you deny the wide streak of secterianism that runs through Scotland ? Seperate schools, Orange Order marches and bands etc ?0 -
Sectarianism is Scotland's shame. Both evil, intolerant bigoted Neanderthals.
Whilst mostly contained in the Glasgow commuter zone and a little in the Western Isles, Weegies get everywhere. There will hardly be pub in the land that hasn't got a couple of fannies banging on about 'the cause'.
I had a great time at Uni in Glasgow, lived in the West End. No problems at all.
Enjoy it.0 -
Nah, basing it on the facts, Glasgow is just as bad. He asked for opinions and I gave mine, just as you gave yours, obviously I ruffled your feathers as you are a weejie. Do you deny the wide streak of secterianism that runs through Scotland ? Seperate schools, Orange Order marches and bands etc ?
You have contradicted yourself. You based 'it' on an opinion, not 'facts'. I rather think the OP was looking for advice rather than pure opinion.
There is still a fairly strong sectarian element in the West of Scotland (spreading along the M8 a bit). It is not a pan-Scottish phenomenon. As someone pointed out, this is more of a diversion from the Anglophobic than a part of it. Besides, with a few exceptions (like Airdrie), the Unionist contingent have quite a foothold in Lanarkshire. I wouldn't expect much saltire waving from that crowd.
My feathers are far from ruffled and I'm not actually a 'true blue' Weejie (despite the name - long story).
If the sectarian/racist bigotry of the few is enough to warrant not moving to a location, there would not be many places worth moving to.0 -
Weejie54 wrote:Nah, basing it on the facts, Glasgow is just as bad. He asked for opinions and I gave mine, just as you gave yours, obviously I ruffled your feathers as you are a weejie. Do you deny the wide streak of secterianism that runs through Scotland ? Seperate schools, Orange Order marches and bands etc ?
You have contradicted yourself. You based 'it' on an opinion, not 'facts'. I rather think the OP was looking for advice rather than pure opinion.
There is still a fairly strong sectarian element in the West of Scotland (spreading along the M8 a bit). It is not a pan-Scottish phenomenon. As someone pointed out, this is more of a diversion from the Anglophobic than a part of it. Besides, with a few exceptions (like Airdrie), the Unionist contingent have quite a foothold in Lanarkshire. I wouldn't expect much saltire waving from that crowd.
My feathers are far from ruffled and I'm not actually a 'true blue' Weejie (despite the name - long story).
If the sectarian/racist bigotry of the few is enough to warrant not moving to a location, there would not be many places worth moving to.
The facts were incidents growing up and living in Scotland. Can't go into them on here, far too long winded. just glad I'm not there anymore. No contradiction, just a condensing of knowledge, forming an opinion and expressing it.
And again, can't imagine why anyone would want to live in Scotland, especially if you have travelled a bit, comparisons matter, gives you perspective and in my case cemented that perspective.0 -
bompington wrote:
By all accounts it is bad in parts of the west, but I have never come across it in Dundee, which does have a large Irish immigrant population (basically the cause off the problem in Glasgow), and as for separate schools, that's the first time I've ever heard that there are no catholic schools in England :?:dmclite wrote:Do you deny the wide streak of secterianism that runs through Scotland ? Seperate schools, Orange Order marches and bands etc ?
Thats not what I said or implied, please read before mincing your words. There is a definite Protestant/Catholic divide in the West of Scotland and the schools were definetly seperate when I attended school. I think in England it is as a choice where you send your children to school, whether it be Catholic or otherwise.0 -
The facts were incidents growing up and living in Scotland
Ahh...anecdotal evidence.There is a definite Protestant/Catholic divide in the West of Scotland and the schools were definetly seperate when I attended school. I think in England it is as a choice where you send your children to school, whether it be Catholic or otherwise.
How about this, in a city with one of the largest Roman Catholic populations in the UK?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHdsDO9uzv4And again, can't imagine why anyone would want to live in Scotland, especially if you have travelled a bit, comparisons matter, gives you perspective and in my case cemented that perspective.
Cement is certainly present.0 -
Weejie54 wrote:The facts were incidents growing up and living in Scotland
Ahh...anecdotal evidence.There is a definite Protestant/Catholic divide in the West of Scotland and the schools were definetly seperate when I attended school. I think in England it is as a choice where you send your children to school, whether it be Catholic or otherwise.
How about this, in a city with one of the largest Roman Catholic populations in the UK?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHdsDO9uzv4And again, can't imagine why anyone would want to live in Scotland, especially if you have travelled a bit, comparisons matter, gives you perspective and in my case cemented that perspective.
Cement is certainly present.
And your point is ? Sorry but you are being vague.
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Err, really not sure what you mean by "mincing my words", maybe at that time in the morning you're not sure what you mean either.dmclite wrote:bompington wrote:
By all accounts it is bad in parts of the west, but I have never come across it in Dundee, which does have a large Irish immigrant population (basically the cause off the problem in Glasgow), and as for separate schools, that's the first time I've ever heard that there are no catholic schools in England :?:dmclite wrote:Do you deny the wide streak of secterianism that runs through Scotland ? Seperate schools, Orange Order marches and bands etc ?
Thats not what I said or implied, please read before mincing your words. There is a definite Protestant/Catholic divide in the West of Scotland and the schools were definetly seperate when I attended school. I think in England it is as a choice where you send your children to school, whether it be Catholic or otherwise.
As for sectarianism, I acknowledged that it's a problem; as for schools, I can't see what you mean there either: stating that there are separate schools in Scotland, when you're comparing it with England, does rather imply the opposite in England doesn't it? And you have the choice in Scotland too, the bishops don't come round to your door and say "you're catholic, you have to go to the catholic school" - plus, I should point out, they're now building new catholic and non-denominational schools on the same campus; not without opposition from the bigots it's true; but perhaps a hint that Scotland is trying to deal with the issue.
You must have quite a lack of imagination, or at least insight into how other people see things: I don't know what happened in your unhappy childhood to give you such a hatred for the place you grew up, but it does look a bit as if something sadder than travel has determined your perspective.dmclite wrote:And again, can't imagine why anyone would want to live in Scotland, especially if you have travelled a bit, comparisons matter, gives you perspective and in my case cemented that perspective.
Strangely enough there are a few people who have also travelled and lived in other parts of the world who choose to live in Scotland, you don't have to agree with the reasons posted in this thread, but your "perspective" has coloured your opinions so much that it must be us who are behaving irrationally, it seems.0 -
I'm Ayrshire born and bred and I wouldn't move back if I was paid to, parents lived in Saltcioats when I was born then moved to Irvine. Apart from the fact that everything south and west of Glasgow hasn't changed in the 27 years since I left school (The REAL Irvine Royal Academy, not feckin Ravenspark renamed), the sectarianism is something I can't be bothered with.
I used to walk to primary school with my cousin, she would go in one gate to the RC school I would walk another 50 yards to the non denominational school. I'm persona non gratia with some sections of my family because I refused to join the Masonic Liodge and the Orange Lodge when I turned 18. At school, you had to support either Rangers or Celtic because you got a kicking if you didn't support one of them, then you had to take part because you had been labled. It's still there, the underlying hatred and brainwashing that goes on, I can see it in my brother and sister and their respective families, my neices and nephews. It really is a joke, nobody wants to move on!
I live near Aberdeen now, there is no palpable sectarianism here but their is a loathing of all things central belt which is largely related to economy rather than religion. My own kids have never known it as a problem, well until my idiot son walked into a room of Rangers fans and addressed them as Huns!!
As has been noted earlier, the sectarianism is largley related to the growth areas of Irish communities in Scotland around the turn of 19th/20th century. Ayrshire, Glasgow and Dundee were the most prolific areas because of industry and jobs, those communities are still fighting today.
However, there are some fantastic places to live in Scotland, we were desperate to get back here after 10 years travelling with work because despite all the problems Scotland is where I want to live.
To the OP, there are some lovely communities in the Lanarkshire area however the transport system is not the best once you get out of the urban areas, give it a bash, it's not as bad as we make it seem, if you avoid the worst of places.
Anyway, we're a balanced nation, we have chips on both shoulders!!0 -
dmclite wrote:And again, can't imagine why anyone would want to live in Scotland, especially if you have travelled a bit, comparisons matter, gives you perspective and in my case cemented that perspective.
I have lived and worked abroad as well as travelling worldwide including a lot of time in England. I came back to Scotland out of choice 18 years ago and have been entirely happy with that decision. Cemented my decision you may say.
Re racism, sectarianism etc, etc - It is my belief that human beings are tribal by nature and no matter where you go they will always sub divide into groups and pick on each other. If you don't see it that way, chances are you are in the majority group in your area.
Best way to deal with it? Does that person's opinion count for anything? No? Ignore it.
That probably includes this post too :shock:None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
Retro1702 wrote:Oh & here's another thing, West Central Scotland schools, the letter is JAY not JYE, grrrrrr
Is anyone sure of how things should be pronounced anymore?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11642588None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
And your point is ? Sorry but you are being vague.
Simply that you seem to mistake facts with opinions - so much that you have a wee bit too much concrete in your head.0 -
Apart from the fact that everything south and west of Glasgow hasn't changed in the 27 years since I left school (The REAL Irvine Royal Academy, not feckin Ravenspark renamed
Well, the school has changed, obviously!0 -
Weejie54 wrote:And your point is ? Sorry but you are being vague.
Simply that you seem to mistake facts with opinions - so much that you have a wee bit too much concrete in your head.
Yeah that's interesting but surely there cannot be any justification for an alphabet that is prounounced as: -
AY
BEE
CEE
DEE
EEE
EFF
GEE
AITCH
EYE
JYE....
The next letter is not KYE is it? No it's KAY, therefore it's JAY like 99.9% of the other English speaking world. People don't go shopping for trainers in JYE JYE BEE Sports do they? People don't say "I'm going home to put my PEE-JYE's on"...0 -
Weejie54 wrote:Apart from the fact that everything south and west of Glasgow hasn't changed in the 27 years since I left school (The REAL Irvine Royal Academy, not feckin Ravenspark renamed
Well, the school has changed, obviously!
....don't be pedantic... 0 -
AY
BEE
CEE
DEE
EEE
The next letter is FEE, isn't it? how could it possibly be anything else? Followed by GEE, HEE....0 -
bompington wrote:AY
BEE
CEE
DEE
EEE
The next letter is FEE, isn't it? how could it possibly be anything else? Followed by GEE, HEE....
Obviously schools in the Peoples Republic of Dundonia have another different adaption then...0 -
Retro1702 wrote:Weejie54 wrote:And your point is ? Sorry but you are being vague.
Simply that you seem to mistake facts with opinions - so much that you have a wee bit too much concrete in your head.
Yeah that's interesting but surely there cannot be any justification for an alphabet that is prounounced as: -
AY
BEE
CEE
DEE
EEE
EFF
GEE
AITCH
EYE
JYE....
The next letter is not KYE is it? No it's KAY, therefore it's JAY like 99.9% of the other English speaking world. People don't go shopping for trainers in JYE JYE BEE Sports do they? People don't say "I'm going home to put my PEE-JYE's on"...
You'll be denying Scots the right to speak Gaelic next....
Maybe news to you but most Scots can speak proper English.
Does everyone in England speak like a Brummie?More problems but still living....0 -
Scotland makes the best haggis in the world, but on the other hand the midges are a nightmare.
I think those two things balance each other out.
How many midges to the average haggis?0 -
Weejie54 wrote:Scotland makes the best haggis in the world, but on the other hand the midges are a nightmare.
I think those two things balance each other out.
How many midges to the average haggis?
Well, I got bitten about 40-50 times on a walk up the mountain before we went to the restaurant to get our haggis, so I'd say 50-1. I'm not sure if that's mathematically sound though. 0 -
daviesee wrote:dmclite wrote:And again, can't imagine why anyone would want to live in Scotland, especially if you have travelled a bit, comparisons matter, gives you perspective and in my case cemented that perspective.
I have lived and worked abroad as well as travelling worldwide including a lot of time in England. I came back to Scotland out of choice 18 years ago and have been entirely happy with that decision. Cemented my decision you may say.
Re racism, sectarianism etc, etc - It is my belief that human beings are tribal by nature and no matter where you go they will always sub divide into groups and pick on each other. If you don't see it that way, chances are you are in the majority group in your area.
Best way to deal with it? Does that person's opinion count for anything? No? Ignore it.
That probably includes this post too :shock:
sorry to pick on your post but i find this underlying "everywhere is the same" post crass and ignorant. Is there an equal amount of racism in all towns, cities, and countries? has racism not lessened significantly in some parts of UK over the past 20 years?
Do you see the point?0 -
Hmm, I have seemed a quite ranty, probably too much.
Obsessed with cement as well, I'm as amused at myself at using this euphimism as you all seem to be, fair one.
It is a real shame, just didn't like Ayrshire at all, Glasgow wasn't much better and when I tried living in Edinburgh much later I just couldn't take to it.
You may say I'm bigoted toward my own country, a sort of inward Xenophobia, I don't know how you would describe it. If you like where you live, fair enough and sorry if my views were OTT, just had a really tough time at school. I was a Catholic at a very protestant secondary school, lots of classmates were drummers or pipers in the Silver Star, the local Orange band and I didn't take to football so I was an easy target.
This formed unfortunate associations with Scotland and home for me, so l joined up and started training in the Army at 16 in Dover, fortunately it was as far away as I could get and I have never looked back.
So apologies for my mental few posts, will stop being a bampot and am off out for a quick hour round the Kent lanes. 0 -
dmclite wrote:Hmm, I have seemed a quite ranty, probably too much.
Obsessed with cement as well, I'm as amused at myself at using this euphimism as you all seem to be, fair one.
It is a real shame, just didn't like Ayrshire at all, Glasgow wasn't much better and when I tried living in Edinburgh much later I just couldn't take to it.
You may say I'm bigoted toward my own country, a sort of inward Xenophobia, I don't know how you would describe it. If you like where you live, fair enough and sorry if my views were OTT, just had a really tough time at school. I was a Catholic at a very protestant secondary school, lots of classmates were drummers or pipers in the Silver Star, the local Orange band and I didn't take to football so I was an easy target.
This formed unfortunate associations with Scotland and home for me, so l joined up and started training in the Army at 16 in Dover, fortunately it was as far away as I could get and I have never looked back.
So apologies for my mental few posts, will stop being a bampot and am off out for a quick hour round the Kent lanes.
All fair enough and understood. I would suggest that this is yet another example of the Glasgow area problems which exist on both sides of the divide but dissipate the further you get from Glasgow and that it is getting better. Slowly but getting there.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
wildmoustache wrote:daviesee wrote:dmclite wrote:And again, can't imagine why anyone would want to live in Scotland, especially if you have travelled a bit, comparisons matter, gives you perspective and in my case cemented that perspective.
I have lived and worked abroad as well as travelling worldwide including a lot of time in England. I came back to Scotland out of choice 18 years ago and have been entirely happy with that decision. Cemented my decision you may say.
Re racism, sectarianism etc, etc - It is my belief that human beings are tribal by nature and no matter where you go they will always sub divide into groups and pick on each other. If you don't see it that way, chances are you are in the majority group in your area.
Best way to deal with it? Does that person's opinion count for anything? No? Ignore it.
That probably includes this post too :shock:
sorry to pick on your post but i find this underlying "everywhere is the same" post crass and ignorant. Is there an equal amount of racism in all towns, cities, and countries? has racism not lessened significantly in some parts of UK over the past 20 years?
Do you see the point?
Not really. A thread like this deals in generalisations whether you break it down to Countries, Counties, Cities, neighbourhoods or streets there will always be perceptions, exceptions and differences.
Racism may be decreasing but that doesn't mean everyone is living in utopia. There is still religious, sporting, sexist, Windows v Mac, Campag v Shimano, Canon v Nikon, vinyl v CD divides. Take it to any level and people will find their group and separate them from the others. Tribal you see?None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
daviesee wrote:wildmoustache wrote:daviesee wrote:dmclite wrote:And again, can't imagine why anyone would want to live in Scotland, especially if you have travelled a bit, comparisons matter, gives you perspective and in my case cemented that perspective.
I have lived and worked abroad as well as travelling worldwide including a lot of time in England. I came back to Scotland out of choice 18 years ago and have been entirely happy with that decision. Cemented my decision you may say.
Re racism, sectarianism etc, etc - It is my belief that human beings are tribal by nature and no matter where you go they will always sub divide into groups and pick on each other. If you don't see it that way, chances are you are in the majority group in your area.
Best way to deal with it? Does that person's opinion count for anything? No? Ignore it.
That probably includes this post too :shock:
sorry to pick on your post but i find this underlying "everywhere is the same" post crass and ignorant. Is there an equal amount of racism in all towns, cities, and countries? has racism not lessened significantly in some parts of UK over the past 20 years?
Do you see the point?
Not really. A thread like this deals in generalisations whether you break it down to Countries, Counties, Cities, neighbourhoods or streets there will always be perceptions, exceptions and differences.
Racism may be decreasing but that doesn't mean everyone is living in utopia. There is still religious, sporting, sexist, Windows v Mac, Campag v Shimano, Canon v Nikon, vinyl v CD divides. Take it to any level and people will find their group and separate them from the others. Tribal you see?
It's more that your statement below, while possibly true, without some qualiification in the context of this thread, rather implies "everywhere is same" whilch is absolute bollocks as you acknowledge impliciitly in your post above. It's inconceivable that e.g. racism is decreasing everywhere at the same rate!
"It is my belief that human beings are tribal by nature and no matter where you go they will always sub divide into groups and pick on each other.0
