OT - Telling staff members about their poor personal hygiene

DonDaddyD

Person I manage; older lady, older than my parents in fact. Amazingly bad BO. Shockingly bad, I never knew a Woman could smell so bad as to be devoid of that female perfumy smell I like to think of as pheromones.

I left the office came back and with the window open it smelled similar to a teenagers room.

What worries me though is that when I start cycling again, and have my cycle clothing on the radiator and bike behind my desk, people are going to think its me that smells bad.

I need to tell her, how do I tell her? How would you tell someone you work with they have poor personal hygiene?

I feel guilty though she isn't well....

gtvlusso

I would utilise the good old desk re-allocation tactic.....preferably to the car park!

*Personal issues are not really commentable in the workplace - very easy for someone to take offence, then you enter a world of pain!! Even when you are, in fact, right!

il_principe

I'd say you need some management training DDD.

dhope

Wimp out and mention it to HR?

DonDaddyD

Sorry allow me to clarify, I do not believe that there are any personal issues contributing to the poor hygiene. It appears to simply be a case of poor personal hygiene.

Others have commented on it before.

I feel bad now.

I'd say you need some management training DDD.

You get all the necessary information to make that judgement from one post?

Jedi!

nich

drop her an email to this thread

cyclopsbiker

what DHope said. most defnitely a HR issue and their problem to solve. you could even drop HR an anonymous note if you really can't face telling someone. explain you're too much of a wimp to confront the person directly and would like to remain hidden

cyclopsbiker

or you could leave a can of deoderant on her desk when there's no-one looking...!

MonkeyMonster

tbh given todays climate I'd go to HR anyway - even if the old lady were to take it fine, its now possible for someone else to be offended by what you say to someone else. Just go to HR its safer.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Ask l_i_ts to have a word with her.

She'll be out the door before you know it.

Stuey01

cyclopsbiker wrote:

what DHope said. most defnitely a HR issue and their problem to solve. you could even drop HR an anonymous note if you really can't face telling someone. explain you're too much of a wimp to confront the person directly and would like to remain hidden

Bollox. Not an HR issue, it's a management issue. HR may provide some guidance as to how to broach the subject. It would be worth talking to them, as if you don't and then F it up then it could become a proper HR issue - i.e. grievance.

Do people really think HR's job is to run around dealing with sh1te that line manager's are too much of a pussy to deal with?

shm_uk

Hmmmm. Difficult issue to broach. Potential minefield for causing embarassment and offence.

If you have a good working relationship with this person, and as her manager, then you should be able to discuss it in person. Sensitively and in private obviously.

I don't agree with it being a HR issue. If they wade in, then she'll know she's been 'reported' which will make her feel very uncomfortable.

Or, are there any other (maybe similarly-aged) female colleagues who could talk to her - she may be more receptive with a girl-to-girl chat.

Or, if there's someone in the office she's particularly friendly with ...

DonDaddyD

Greg66 wrote:

Ask l_i_ts to have a word with her.

She'll be out the door before you know it.

This staff member isn't overweight though....

It isn't a HR issue, and going to HR would trigger a 'counter-sue' scenario. This staff member has history, which is in part why I've got no one else to tell her.

As a manager I could come under criticism if I tell her for various reasons. If I don't say something I could come under criticism from other staff.

I may close the foor and turn the fan off again, I'm curious. Like putting you're tongue on a battery....

il_principe

Stuey01 wrote:

cyclopsbiker wrote:

what DHope said. most defnitely a HR issue and their problem to solve. you could even drop HR an anonymous note if you really can't face telling someone. explain you're too much of a wimp to confront the person directly and would like to remain hidden

Bollox. Not an HR issue, it's a management issue. HR may provide some guidance as to how to broach the subject. It would be worth talking to them, as if you don't and then F it up then it could become a proper HR issue - i.e. grievance.

Do people really think HR's job is to run around dealing with sh1te that line manager's are too much of a pussy to deal with?

+1 It's all part of being a decent manager. You should have a word with HR about some decent people management training (covering feedback etc). Done properly makes the world of difference. Sadly many organisations offer utterly piss poor training or none at all.

notsoblue

Get HR advice if you're unsure. Then no matter how she reacts they'll be on your side.

Tricky one though. I once worked with a guy with the most horrific halitosis. The other three people that I shared the office with wouldn't say anything. Eventually I just discretely and politely told him directly that it was noticeable. He took it well. And it improved after that.

If you decide to mention it to them then they will be embarrassed so I guess the trick is to be as discrete as possible.

rjsterry

Stuey01 wrote:

cyclopsbiker wrote:

what DHope said. most defnitely a HR issue and their problem to solve. you could even drop HR an anonymous note if you really can't face telling someone. explain you're too much of a wimp to confront the person directly and would like to remain hidden

Bollox. Not an HR issue, it's a management issue. HR may provide some guidance as to how to broach the subject. It would be worth talking to them, as if you don't and then F it up then it could become a proper HR issue - i.e. grievance.

Do people really think HR's job is to run around dealing with sh1te that line manager's are too much of a pussy to deal with?

This. By all means get some (good) advice before you act, but it has to come from you in the first instance.

lost_in_thought

Depending on the company and your position, how others see you, you may be advised to cover your @rse by telling HR there's a problem there, and either tell them that

a) you'll deal with it, seeing as it is your job as a manager to manage your staff

or

b) you're too much of a wimp to take things on yourself.


If you go for option a) take her to one side, somewhere private, and explain that she smells. Don't sugar-coat it, be blunt, don't say something that she could misinterpret as anything else.

I don't think management training is necessary, I've never struggled, and most of the stuff in management books is pretty common sense. Some people aren't cut out for managing others, though, and no amount of training will help!

il_principe

In my experience (I deal with HR people regarding management & staff development for a living), most HR people know feck all about how to manage people. They specialise in poorly worded memos and ar$e covering.

If you go to HR and she finds out, well, I doubt it will end well.

andy83

Ok DDD ill give my two pence worth as I have had to do this

I work in a residential home with a total staff team of around 17 and im the deputy manager

We had a member of staff with VERY poor hygiene and a lot of staff were coming to us and saying. I didnt want people to keep talking about it so spoke to the manager. She decided as I was a bloke and he was aswell it was best coming from me (yea cheers for passing the book)

I had to call them into the office and just very tactfully explain that some staff had commented on his hygiene. explained that it may be unpleasent for others to work in the situation

I was lucky, he was extremely apologetic and didnt realise there was a problem. He said he would take more care of his hygiene, and low and behold since that day not a problem.

As mentioned its a management issue, they get paid more to deal with stuff like this. Definitely dont do it yourself. especially as she is older and female, she will see you as a young runt telling her what to do and may not take kindly

tailwindhome

DonDaddyD wrote:

Person I manage; older lady, older than my parents in fact. Amazingly bad BO. Shockingly bad, I never knew a Woman could smell so bad as to be devoid of that female perfumy smell I like to think of as pheromones.

Best say nothing

Or you could try

"You look really fat in that outfit"

"Ha! Just joking. You just smell bad"

il_principe

andy83 wrote:

As mentioned its a management issue, they get paid more to deal with stuff like this. Definitely dont do it yourself. especially as she is older and female, she will see you as a young runt telling her what to do and may not take kindly

Dude, he's her manager, so it's not a 'management' issue, it's his issue. Although as you point out, people will take this well if you broach the subject sensitively. Get someone else to do your dirty* work, and you run the risk of losing respect and credibility with her and with your boss. Your report, your responsibility. Of course you'd better make damn sure you're right about it being her first - ie 'gather the evidence' or you really could be in trouble!

*snigger

tailwindhome

andy83 wrote:

As mentioned its a management issue, they get paid more to deal with stuff like this. Definitely dont do it yourself. especially as she is older and female, she will see you as a young runt telling her what to do and may not take kindly

Not sure runt is the word she'll use

Close though

kelsen

lost_in_thought wrote:

Depending on the company and your position, how others see you, you may be advised to cover your @rse by telling HR there's a problem there, and either tell them that

a) you'll deal with it, seeing as it is your job as a manager to manage your staff

or

b) you're too much of a wimp to take things on yourself.


If you go for option a) take her to one side, somewhere private, and explain that she smells. Don't sugar-coat it, be blunt, don't say something that she could misinterpret as anything else.

I don't think management training is necessary, I've never struggled, and most of the stuff in management books is pretty common sense. Some people aren't cut out for managing others, though, and no amount of training will help!

I agree with a)

Just be straight and honest with her, and admit also that it was a difficult issue for you to have to bring up. If she's open minded, she will appreciate the way you've handled it, no matter that it was embarassing for all parties involved.

If she adopts the knee jerk reaction...well, you've told her anyway.

DonDaddyD

This staff member has history. So there isn't another staff member willing to tell her.

In any case I wouldn't want another staff member to tell her. It's not my management style to treat staff I've invested time in like that. I've also been trained not to do that. So my issue.

This thread is more for carthartic reasons and to get my brain thinking on how I might approach this.

However, here is the thing. As I said, this staff member has history - part of the reason they've been given to me. If I went to HR and she found out it would likely result in a 'counter-sue' retaliation. I don't want that.

Also I don't believe this to be a HR issue and by going to other members of staff I could run the risk of being seen as being insensitive to the situation.

dhope

Would agree with LiT's option A. Sort it yourself but make HR aware beforehand just incase Stinky takes it the wrong way. Don't call her Stinky by the way.

notsoblue

dhope wrote:

Would agree with LiT's option A. Sort it yourself but make HR aware beforehand just incase Stinky takes it the wrong way. Don't call her Stinky by the way.

This.

gtvlusso

dhope wrote:

Would agree with LiT's option A. Sort it yourself but make HR aware beforehand just incase Stinky takes it the wrong way. Don't call her Stinky by the way.

+1 with LiT

Pre-empt with HR
Mention to your boss (optional - if you are worried about fallout)
Quiet word with "stinker" - to the point, perhaps in 1-2-1monthly meeting (if you do that)
Await complaint from "stinker"
Deal with complaint/grievence

"The environment that she creates is not in-line with <insert business> strategy or acceptable performance".......

add it to performance agreement and offer a training course if no improvement seen within 1 month.....

andy83

sorry missed the point that you manage her, must have been cos you post so much online didnt think youd have time to manage lol

has anyone told her before??

maybe as in my case they actually dont realise

kelsen

If it helps to soften the blow, you could sleep with her first...

Sewinman

She needs to musk up or use some talc. I would get her some talc for secret santa, with a direct message that she should use it every day without fail as she pongs-pa-pongs-pongs-pongs.

I favour a full body application Slazenger Sport talc, followed by a liberal splash of Aramis. 80's masculine chic.

il_principe

gtvlusso wrote:

add it to performance agreement and offer a training course if no improvement seen within 1 month.....

:roll: