Winter Clothing - I cannot seem to get it right!

theotherjake

I started commuting into the West End from North London in April (12 miles/45 mins each way). The summer was great I used a pair of endura shorts and a ss base layer everyday.

Then the temperature dropped so I purchased a Endura convert 2 jacket and a couple of long sleeve jerseys, this is when it all went wrong! I started getting hot and sweaty, Real boil in the bag stuff, arriving at work my jacket was wet on the inside. On the way home after riding up Highate Hill I would suddenly get cold after building up a sweat.

So I purchased another jacket hoping it would be more breathable [less boil in a bag], I went for a dhb Windslam soft shell. Not exactly cheap but I was not enjoying the boil in the bag commuting.

On my first ride home today wearing the new jacket I used a ss base layer with a ls base layer over the top, I started off warm enough but soon got sweaty then I got cold, really cold. Ive spent a fortune on winter clothing and seem to get hot and then cold quickly...

Anybody got any tips?

Jake.

scruffyduncan

Merino wool baselayers(warm when wet, comfy, don't smell)

Gilets with mesh backs. Because no waterproof / windproof jacket is ever really that breathable

theotherjake

Surely a Gilet wont be warm enough?

shouldbeinbed

softshells. aldi ones are great, wind and water resistent to quite some tune, and easy to regulate temperature in, you can wear them on their own or layer them wth vests/bases etc that can easily be stuffed into the rear pocket as its still usually appreciably warmer evenings than mornings at the mo

carry a little waterproof packaway for the rare occasion you'll be caught out when its bucketing down and bobs yer uncle.

I've got a gore windstopper vest that is utterly brilliant too at this time of year under anything.

I'll not be in a coat for a good few weeks yet

unixnerd

Something with zips at the side helps a fair bit. And wear overshoes, if your feet are warm it makes a huge difference.

bumpitybump

theotherjake wrote:

Surely a Gilet wont be warm enough?

Gilet is great for warmth if you get one which is wind-proof at the front as it stops your chest getting cold on chilly days like this morning. The mesh-back then stops you over-heating and getting sweaty. I had trouble with purchasing one as I thought the amount of garment you got per £ spent was very low but in practice I've found my Altura gilet one of the best bits of cycling kit I have.

http://www.discountcyclesdirect.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=9099

MrChuck

My top tip is to avoid jackets with membranes in if you can, with the possible exception of some of the Gore Bike Wear ones. And don't wear a waterproof unless it's really pi$$ing down, they're just not breathable enough. But whatever you get you can expect some moisture on the inside.

Also you don't say what your base layers are made of, merino or a good wicking fabric is the way to go. Remember they need to be fairly close fitting to move your sweat away from yoiur skin well.

Also, you say you 'started off warm enough'. If you're warm enough when you start you're overdressed.

cjcp

I've got a LS base layer, with a SS club jersey, with a Gore Phantom jacket. I'm using arm warmers at the moment, too (odd, I know), but, when it gets colder, I'll put the arms on the Phantom. When it gets even colder, I'll put a thicker base layer on.

Might be worth trying tights to keep the legs nice and toasty.

antlaff

I bought and sold the Endura Convert 2 within 2 weeks due to it's boil in the bag effect. Absolutely soaked within 10 mins. Bought the Altura Ergo when on offer in wiggle for 64 - brilliant buy - wear it the roubaix tights, sealskins merino socks & endura baa baa merino top. Toasty warm with no excessive sweat. Great for my work as no shower facilities - just the babywipe wash'n'go!

fatherted

theotherjake wrote:

........... I started off warm enough .................

Anybody got any tips?

.

It is no use starting off warm.

For instance, it was 2degs this morning in the south london suburbs and a long sleeved base layer and long sleeved jersey should be sufficient at that temperature.

You will be chilly for 2/3 miles then you will warm up.

Forget jackets.

Cycle quicker if you are cold.

Think layers.

crankycrank

scruffyduncan wrote:

Merino wool baselayers(warm when wet, comfy, don't smell)

Gilets with mesh backs. Because no waterproof / windproof jacket is ever really that breathable

Another vote for this kit. The gilete keeps the cool breeze off your chest and you don't get nearly as sweaty. I prefer layering rather than a warm jacket as well. You're stuck with a hot jacket if the temp starts to get warmer.

antfly

Your problem was the 2 base layers, try wearing just 1.

pst88

fatherted wrote:

For instance, it was 2degs this morning in the south london suburbs and a long sleeved base layer and long sleeved jersey should be sufficient at that temperature.

Seconded. In this weather is just wear a long sleeve base layer with long sleeve jersey and it's fine.

The Rookie

shouldbeinbed wrote:

softshells. aldi ones are great, wind and water resistent to quite some tune, and easy to regulate temperature in

+1 for an Aldi softshell with a lase layer underneath, that with Aldi full length gloves and light cotton 3/4 lengths works fine for me down to -5C If I'm chilly, I pedal faster!

Simon

andrewc3142

Softshell jackets are great, but you do tend to get what you pay for.

Arm and knee warmers are also good, until it gets very cold.

I reckon that if I feel too cold for the first few miles it's about right. Too hot then and later you'll boil.

cyclopsbiker

+1 for always starting off cooler than you want to be. at that distance you should expect to be chilly for a few miles but then you'll warm up and be just right.warm hands/toes and a buff which you can bring down over your ears or tuck up will help. keep experimenting with what you have, you shouldn't need to buy anything else - unless you don't own a buff...in which case get lots of them

theotherjake

All good advice thanks. I used one ls base layer this morning under the dhb soft shell, I did get hot but not cold.

Sounds like I need some merino base layers, but at circa £30 each it would cost a few quid to commute in them. How often do they need washing?

cyclopsbiker

I've got 2 merino base layers...wear them on alternate days and run in them too....they both get washed once a week. cos they're merino they don't stink. and you're only wearing them for a few hrs at the most each day. it amuses me that people think they need to wash something cos they've worn it once.... if I were out hiking all day I'd not get changed every hour....so why would I wash my cycling top just cos I've cycled in it for an hour?!

see this, especially the last one at the bottom of the page: http://www.icebreaker.com/site/stories_more.html

jthef

its all very personal stuff.
I use Craft base layers and they nice and warm, and just got DHB one is is OK and dose not hold the smell
Jacket I have 3 from a wind proof fronted jacket which is good for me down to 7 deg with a base layer, then a gore jacket windproof all round and shower proof this is good to the -2/4 deg then I have a heaver jacket for the cold which a use a base layer and breathable top as well.
just bought some winter boots see how they go on in winter against over shoes.
Jon

keefsloan

IMO, the absolute best soft shell's are Paramo. I used to wear them in the Welsh & Scottish mountains in some AWFUL weather. Never once got wet (either through the rain coming in or through sweating). They're not cheap but they do last for years and, because there's no membrane, if they get a bit poked through it doesn't matter - the waterproofing and the breathability are unaffected. I figured that if most of the UK's mountain rescue teams wore them then they must be pretty special. And they are.

+1 for the "if you're warm when you begin then you're overdressed" comments. I do a 15 mile commute into Covent Garden via two hills (Kingston hill and Kingston Vale on the A3) and made the mistake last week of wearing a Helly Hansen baselayer, wicking t and an Altura jacket because it was close on freezing when I left the house. By the time I got to the top of the Vale I was drenched. Breathability in most "breathable" jackets is negligible and, when you do strip off to remain comfortable, there's always then the problem of evaporations and windchill when descending hills. Now I'm baselayer, t and that's it. I'll suffer the first few miles in the freezer because I know that, ultimately, I'm going to be OK. And riding a cycle in the winter certainly beats riding a motorbike. In 12 years of winter riding I've NEVER discovered a surefire way of keeping my hands and body warm and toasty that didn't include cables attached to the battery!

antfly

theotherjake wrote:

All good advice thanks. I used one ls base layer this morning under the dhb soft shell, I did get hot but not cold.

Sounds like I need some merino base layers, but at circa £30 each it would cost a few quid to commute in them. How often do they need washing?

The reviews suggest the DHB jacket is a bit warm for autumn.You could try loosening the drawstring and cuffs and opening the zip a bit to let some heat out.

theotherjake

antfly wrote:

theotherjake wrote:

All good advice thanks. I used one ls base layer this morning under the dhb soft shell, I did get hot but not cold.

Sounds like I need some merino base layers, but at circa £30 each it would cost a few quid to commute in them. How often do they need washing?

The reviews suggest the DHB jacket is a bit warm for autumn.You could try loosening the drawstring and cuffs and opening the zip a bit to let some heat out.

Agreed, Which reviews have you been reading? I couldnt find any on wiggle...

MichaelW

I use a Paramo for my winter commute. The only drawback is that it is too warm for some riders. Ive ridden several 8hr days in torrential rain (10-12C) and been comfortable all day.

Some commutes have big changes in exposure/gradient and there is no one clothing setup that will keep you comfortable. When I had a cold downhill start followed by a sheltered sunny climb to the office I used a gillet over my windproof. You can slip a gillet on and off very easily and keeping your windproof on is much quicker. Non windproof insulation does work outside a windproof jacket.

There is a big difference in the permeability of windproofs. I sort them out using the HUFF test. Hold the material to your mouth and huff through. If you can exhale with little resistance, it is for summer evenings only. If you go blue in the face and cant huff through, it is not permeable enough (most membrane windproofs). The Goldilocks windproof allows you to huff through with some effort but not to the point of keeling over.

biondino

I do tend to work up a sweat on the way to work but the thing I hate more than ANYTHING is that horrible shivery "my body is cold" feeling when I leave the house. If it takes me 2-3 miles to wamr up then that's 10 minutes of utter discomfort and I'd rather spend 20 minutes sweating instead.

Today - 7 degrees apparently, and raining - I wore a long-sleeved sportwool jersey under a light/midweight windproof non-skintight jacket along with fairly lightweight bib longs, and it was ideal.

antfly

theotherjake wrote:

antfly wrote:

theotherjake wrote:

All good advice thanks. I used one ls base layer this morning under the dhb soft shell, I did get hot but not cold.

Sounds like I need some merino base layers, but at circa £30 each it would cost a few quid to commute in them. How often do they need washing?

The reviews suggest the DHB jacket is a bit warm for autumn.You could try loosening the drawstring and cuffs and opening the zip a bit to let some heat out.

Agreed, Which reviews have you been reading? I couldnt find any on wiggle...

Mainly this one
http://road.cc/content/review/25957-dhb ... ell-jacket

scruffyduncan

Marks and spence do merino wool tights for £9. They are available in a colour option described as carbon. i have a pair and they are very useful cycling equipment.

itchieritchie

Some GREAT advice here, a lot of which I'll take away.

Scuffyduncan....THANK YE KINDLY for that, been looking for a place that does reasonably priced merino gear, just hadn't considered M&S...!

One thing I'd add which nobody has mentioned (unless I missed it) is that the base layer should be really snug and close-fitting. If it's held away from your skin even a tiny bit, the wicking potential drops noticeably.

And for the outer layer, it's true, only proper exposure to the outside air via pit zips and the like will allow you to dump excess heat quickly. Even mesh gets in the way eventually. I find that my heat is generated predominantly from my armpits, so that's where I need the most direct access to the outside.

One last tip to avoid sweaty back syndrome is the pack you might be carrying. If it's not held OFF your back via some sort of suspension system, then you've closed off another exit for excess heat straight away. I have a Vaude 16ltr and it's perfect. So much air that you start off cold on your back, but you soon appreciate it.

It's just a matter of finding the right combo for your body, which parts run hot or cold, then adapting your clothing and pack to fit. Another aspect is of course the distance you're covering. It's quite the art, as most on here will have probably discovered.

But persevere. When you get the balance just right, it's somehow exhiliarating, shifting along at speed, keeping the elements at bay and staying comfy all at the same time. The ones that don't find that sweet spot eventually become fair-weather cyclists.

Stick with it, remember you're not alone and you'll come good with a bit of trial and error.

jedster

the key IME is

VENTILATION!!!

I do tend to agree with this:

My top tip is to avoid jackets with membranes in if you can

but ventilation trumps everything. If it is cold when you start then you can be zipped up. When you feel warm but before you start feeling damp, open up the zips. In my mind, a front zip is not enough. You need to channel air past you to ventilate pits and back - so... pit zips are good.

My wife bought me a rapha soft shell for my 40th birthday (a surprise, I like rapha but think these are overpriced even by their standards). Actually I'm really pleased with it, but I have not yet (two weeks in) zipped up the pit zips. Keep them open and typically finish a ride with the front zip half way down. Doing this has stopped me from getting too hot and sweaty.

msw

It took me ages to stop overdressing in cold weather - now I try to always put on 1 less layer than I instinctively think I need. Doing a similar journey to yours across London in the last week I've been in lightweight 3/4 length tights, shortsleeved merino base layer and Gore jacket - no jersey. Still a bit too warm sometimes.

And in the end, how important is getting it just right? It's good for us to be a bit uncomfortably cold from time to time!

(The exception of course is feet, where I'd wear 4 pairs of overshoes if I could find them big enough.)

PBo

scruffyduncan wrote:

Marks and spence do merino wool tights for £9. They are available in a colour option described as carbon. i have a pair and they are very useful cycling equipment.

Are these in the sports section, or do I need to go rooting through the ladies' stuff?

Do they do them in pink??

01iver

jedster wrote:

I do tend to agree with this:

My top tip is to avoid jackets with membranes in if you can

but ventilation trumps everything.

Not sure I entirely agree here. Venting is fine before you've broken out a sweat, but used too late and what happens is that the humid air inside your garment is mixed with cooler air and hits dew point, causing sudden condensation on surfaces & fibres inside your garment - not pleasant. OK, you can open loads of vents and remove all the air from inside your jacket, but this is impractical and then there are wind-resistance issues too.

My preferred choices are weather resistant permeable shells with sleeves that I can comfortably roll up and the same with leg-wear too. When hiking up sleeves & trouser legs, pull up under-layers too. (Btw, I'm not a great fan of Merino for cycling - it doesn't cope with copious amounts of sweat and it loves tickling open sweat pores!)

There are a lot of arteries close to the skin on the wrist, forearm and ankles. If simply exposing these isn't enough to prevent overheating, take a gulp of cold water from your drink bottle/reservoir and spit it over each wrist. Likewise on reaching work, to cool down quickly, run your wrists under a cold tap. Works a wonder.