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Light tourer / CX with discs which will actually stop me

MalershMalersh Posts: 13
edited July 2011 in Tour & expedition
Just back from doing a section of the Yorkshire Dales cycleway on my Giant SCR2, carrying camping gear. For the second time I found myself unable to stop (this time coming down from Malham Tarn area to Stainforth) - had to ride up a bank rather than crash trying a double hairpin out of control. This is my second braking failure crash so I'm seriously done with side-pull brakes for touring and I'm thinking of a new bike with cable discs. (I appreciate it sounds like I'm just rubbish at riding but I'm 12 stone + camping gear + cold and damp it's a losing fight with gravity I find. I've got Kool-Stop pads and Tiagra brakes so I think I'm not using junk.)

So far I've seen the Genesis Croix de Fer at £999 and the On-One Pompetamine Versa (£799 with Alfine hub which I'm not sure I want.) What I really want is a vanilla road/touring bike, vanilla triple or Apex, BUT with discs. Too much to ask for...seems so.

Can anyone point me in the direction of any alternatives?

Posts

  • Dr U IdhDr U Idh Posts: 324
    A couple of options would be the Marin Lombard and Toscana,at £750 and £999 respectively.
  • majormantramajormantra Posts: 2,094
    Revolution Country Explorer?:

    http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/ebwPNLq ... 155c018343

    Downside is that it's pretty heavy and has Sora. It's cheap though. My flatmate has one and he really likes the brakes.
  • andymillerandymiller Posts: 2,856
    Kona Sutra? IIRC Cotic have just bought out a CX-oriented bike/frame with discs ('Cotic X'?) - or alternatively there's the Road Rat.
  • MalershMalersh Posts: 13
    Thanks very much for those suggestions, will check them out this evening. :D
  • Dr U IdhDr U Idh Posts: 324
    The Sutra doesn't qualify as a "light tourer".
  • Jay dubbleUJay dubbleU Posts: 3,197
    Cube Nature - Hayes Ryde hydaulic discs - would stop an elephant - Deore XT triple 8)
  • andymillerandymiller Posts: 2,856
    Dr U Idh wrote:
    The Sutra doesn't qualify as a "light tourer".

    Given that there aren't that many touring bikes with discs I can't see any reason for getting hung up on definitions - it's an option for the original poster to consider.
  • unixnerdunixnerd Posts: 2,864
    Revolution Country Explorer?:

    Downside is that it's pretty heavy and has Sora. It's cheap though. My flatmate has one and he really likes the brakes.

    I have a six year old one without disc brakes, very comfortable bike even on thinner tyres than those it comes with. Sora works fine and as it's a tourer you'll not be wanting to change from the drops as much anyway. It's not the lightest thing in the world but it really works well, great bike and good value.

    My Tekro brakes were rubbish until I got some better pads from my LBS, owner races cyclocross so knows his onions when it comes to such things.

    How good is it? If someone nicked it I'd replace it with the new (disc) version.
    http://www.strathspey.co.uk - Quality Binoculars at a Sensible Price.
    Specialized Roubaix SL3 Expert 2012, Cannondale CAAD5,
    Marin Mount Vision (1997), Edinburgh Country tourer, 3 cats!
  • Dr U IdhDr U Idh Posts: 324
    andymiller wrote:
    Dr U Idh wrote:
    The Sutra doesn't qualify as a "light tourer".

    Given that there aren't that many touring bikes with discs I can't see any reason for getting hung up on definitions - it's an option for the original poster to consider.

    It's an option which falls out-with his parameters and I'm simply offering advice as an ex-owner. The Sutra is comfortable and stable but it is a bit of a beast.
  • Dr U IdhDr U Idh Posts: 324

    Why spend an extra thousand quid on a titanium frame when any advantage is lost by the weight of a flask of soup and a cheese and pickle sandwich ?

    Because potential weight loss is only one of the advantages of a Titanium frame, especially when it comes to touring.
  • andymillerandymiller Posts: 2,856
    Dr U Idh wrote:
    andymiller wrote:
    Dr U Idh wrote:
    The Sutra doesn't qualify as a "light tourer".

    Given that there aren't that many touring bikes with discs I can't see any reason for getting hung up on definitions - it's an option for the original poster to consider.

    It's an option which falls out-with his parameters and I'm simply offering advice as an ex-owner. The Sutra is comfortable and stable but it is a bit of a beast.

    Look again at the original post - there's no mention of light tourer - he simply asks for suggestions for a new bike. I think the OP is best placed to decide what meets his need and what doesn't.

    Is the Kona Sutra significantly heavier than the two Marins you suggest? (I doubt it) I very much doubt that it's heavier than the Pompetamine.

    Personally if it comes to choosing a touring bike I would choose a steel frame rather than an alloy (eg Marin Lombard) even if the steel frame was heavier.
    I'm simply offering advice as an ex-owner. The Sutra is comfortable and stable but it is a bit of a beast.

    I wondered from the miserable/grumpy/abrupt tone of the previous post whether you were Druidh from singletrackworld. Looks like you are. I seem to remember you were pretty happy with your Kona.
  • I'm simply offering advice as an ex-owner

    if you ARE the DruidH from STW, then I hope you haven't hideous-ed your new bike the way you did the Sutra. My eyes haven't stopped bleeding yet ;)
  • chunkytfgchunkytfg Posts: 535
    This might seem like a silly thing to say/suggest but could you not get a set of forks suitable for a road bike that takes disc brakes and then just fit the disc to the front? Most of the braking effect is done by the front anyway and you then get to keep the bike you allready like and save yourself money?
    FCN 7

    FCN 4

    if you use irrational measures to measure me, expect me to behave irrationally to measure up
  • MalershMalersh Posts: 13
    Thanks for all the input. I am thinking light tourer - ideally something that would also be a good winter training bike, so the Revolution Country Explorer and Kona sutra would probably be too much on the world travelling side.

    I've looked at all the suggestions above (many thanks, kept me out of trouble for an evening) and think the most appealing option is going to be a Croix de Fer - I'd like steel or Ti, but can't afford Ti really, and the CDF is a better grade of tubing (725) than on many steel alternatives. Not sure if it's realistic for me cost wise but while looking I found the Singular Peregrine which is a classic styled take on the genre and certainly has appeal.

    http://www.singularcycles.com/peregrine.html

    Finally, thanks to chunkytfg for the forks idea - I'll discuss with my LBS I think. Could be a good interim measure. I'll probably be shopping in the new year and will update the thread with what I get.
  • unixnerdunixnerd Posts: 2,864
    You can use your existing brake levers with a caliper such as this:
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=17722

    So you'd just need a new fork and wheel. Or you have your current front rim rebuilt with a disc compatible hub.
    http://www.strathspey.co.uk - Quality Binoculars at a Sensible Price.
    Specialized Roubaix SL3 Expert 2012, Cannondale CAAD5,
    Marin Mount Vision (1997), Edinburgh Country tourer, 3 cats!
  • chunkytfgchunkytfg Posts: 535
    Malersh wrote:
    Thanks for all the input.

    Finally, thanks to chunkytfg for the forks idea - I'll discuss with my LBS I think. Could be a good interim measure. I'll probably be shopping in the new year and will update the thread with what I get.

    Does that mean my idea made sense? :lol:

    I know it is no longer avaliable but something like this may be suitable

    http://www.evanscycles.com/products/kon ... --ec017292

    Edit- I've tried looking for Disc specific 700c forks with little success but If you search for hybrid bikes that have disc brakes and then google the forks they have that seems to reap better rewards.
    FCN 7

    FCN 4

    if you use irrational measures to measure me, expect me to behave irrationally to measure up
  • MalershMalersh Posts: 13
    This is beginning to look rather do-able. :D

    Kinesis carbon CX/touring 700C disc fork:

    http://www.fatbirds.co.uk/detail.asp/sk ... uring_Fork
  • chunkytfgchunkytfg Posts: 535
    That plus this

    http://www.fatbirds.co.uk/detail.asp/sk ... r_Platinum

    And then all you need to do is get a Disc wheel built and bob's your dad brother! :lol
    FCN 7

    FCN 4

    if you use irrational measures to measure me, expect me to behave irrationally to measure up
  • Dr U IdhDr U Idh Posts: 324
    OK - where to start.

    The title of the post starts "LIGHT tourer / CX". I thought the requirement was pretty clear from there - but maybe my interpretation of the English language is different.

    The Sutra (which is/was a lovely bike) is a lot heavier than the two Marins I suggested, especially the Toscana. While many scoff at the idea of an alloy frame for touring, unless you are off on some "round the world" adventure, I hardly reckon the weight penalty of a steel frame is worth it. All over the continent, people tour with alloy frames and yet there seems to be no spate of early-life breakages.

    Ad for the Kinesis DC19 forks, that's what I fitted to the front of my VN Amazon. I've been running that all year and they've been great. However, I'm not sure that they are rated to carry front panniers - they certainly look pretty skinny. By comparison, the P2 are heavy and rigid (and fitted to the Sutra co-incidentally).


    Oh - and Ti is where it's at :-)


    4528792164_d39e68acdc.jpg
  • Cube Hooper feels super tough and has great brakes. Runs out of gears on the steepest hills (8 speed Alfine) but maybe I'll grow stronger legs or get an 11 speed hub.
  • BodhbhBodhbh Posts: 117
    Malersh wrote:
    Not sure if it's realistic for me cost wise but while looking I found the Singular Peregrine which is a classic styled take on the genre and certainly has appeal.

    http://www.singularcycles.com/peregrine.html

    Probably small thing (then again if you are spending £500+ on a frame...) but the rear rack mounts on the Peregrine sit above the disc mounts which puts them pretty high up, a good 3-4 inches above the dropouts. It does mean the back end has a fairly high centre of gravity when loaded at the back, which is normally not a problem but you can notice with heavier loads. Unfortunately, if you did want the rack to sit lower down using some of the rack adaptors for disk brake bikes (e.g. the Tubus one) there is a lip around the dropouts which does prevent you.

    I think they said they were gonna lower the high rack mounts in later runs so would check with them first if it's an issue.
  • Sorry I'm late to this but my thoughts/experience.

    Go for Avid BB7s over BB5s everytime; easier adjustment and longer pad life.

    The Marin Toscana is a good bike but, while it has clearance for guards and chunky tyres, I can't see an easy way of fitting a rear rack. The cassette needs changing (lower ratios) for touring, the ride is a bit harsh and it's heavy(ish). My GF has one and she loves it though.

    Fitting a disc fork to your existing bike is a good idea.
    The Kinesis DC19 fork gives a much better ride than the Kona P2, even on narrower tyres. I have the P2 on two of my bikes (they have 35mm tyres) and the Kinesis on the other (25mm tyres).
  • MalershMalersh Posts: 13
    Update for anyone who cares. :) Have bought Genesis Day 01 Alfine (8spd '11 model)

    http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/cro ... -01-alfine

    Just had a couple of days so far and seems geared correctly for laden touring - I wouldn't want to use as a commuter as I'd be spinning out a lot. Ratios run from (gear inches of) 29.1 to 89.1 ( for comparison, my triple tourer went up to 116.1 in top.)

    Genesis are releasing an 11spd Alfine model in Sept/Oct with Avid brakes but will be £1600/£1700!

    Now need to fit racks and panniers and will be off up Sustrans routes N7 and N75

    Thanks for all the help in this thread! :)
  • niblueniblue Posts: 1,387
    Sounds like a good choice and was quite tempted by one of those myself but went with the Roadrat Factory Alfine which has hydro brakes but flat bars. Needless to say stopping quickly, even heavily laden, is not a problem.
  • dilemnadilemna Posts: 2,277
    The Genesis not really a bike suited to carrying luggage though of any description as the rear brake caliper is in the wrong position ie not within the rear triangle and the rear eyelets for fitting a rack don't look as if they are positioned far enough back as the rear triangle is quite small plus the front fork has no mounts for low loaders.

    The On One Pompetamine 11 spd Alfine would be a real winner if they thought harder about provdiing decent eyelets for mounting front and rear racks.

    http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBOOPOMPALF ... e-11-speed

    The other option is the Boardman Performance Hyrbrid Comp

    http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_165534


    which ticks most of the boxes - disc brakes, rear caliper inside rear triangle to make mounting a rear rack much easier and although forks don't have eyelets for low loaders a fitting kit could be used without too much difficulty. The flat bars could feasibly be swapped for drops and Adid BB7 brakes fitted with say 105 levers but maybe too cost prohibitive. Or just keep the Boardman frame and put a better wheelset and brakes on it. Not sure whether one could retro fit hub gears such as the Alfine 11spd?

    There is currrently a real gap in the market for a decent commuting/touring/expedition bike which doesn't cost the earth,has disc brakes, hub gears ie Alfine 11 speed or Rohloff (the latter is expensive I know), all the eyelets in the right places for attaching racks to carry a load, lots of clearance for say 700 x 42C tyres with mudguards or 26" x 2.25 tyres.

    The On One Pompetamine is pretty much there having the Alfine hub and suitable disc brakes but inclusion of eyelets for fitment of racks front and rear for carrying loads would make it a real winner. The other alternative is to go bespoke which is £££££.
    Life is like a roll of toilet paper; long and useful, but always ends at the wrong moment. Anon.
    Think how stupid the average person is.......
    half of them are even more stupid than you first thought.
  • pangolinpangolin Posts: 2,309
    I have a pompetamine versa. It as eyelets for a rear rack.
    Genesis Croix de Fer
    Cube Attain
  • dilemnadilemna Posts: 2,277
    pangolin wrote:
    I have a pompetamine versa. It as eyelets for a rear rack.

    One single hole though. How about front forks? I didn't think so.
    Life is like a roll of toilet paper; long and useful, but always ends at the wrong moment. Anon.
    Think how stupid the average person is.......
    half of them are even more stupid than you first thought.
  • pangolinpangolin Posts: 2,309
    dilemna wrote:
    pangolin wrote:
    I have a pompetamine versa. It as eyelets for a rear rack.

    One single hole though. How about front forks? I didn't think so.

    I never said it had mounts on the front forks, I was just correcting your statement that it had no mounts at all.

    And what is the problem with it being one hole at the back? Rack and guards can both use this, you just use a longer bolt.

    I've done LEJOG on a kaffenback (same frame as pompetamine) and only needed rear panniers and a handlebar bag, including camping gear. I think generally people take too much stuff.

    I agree though, the addition of eyelets on the front fork would make it more versatile.
    Genesis Croix de Fer
    Cube Attain
  • bobinskibobinski Posts: 568
    Pangolin,
    Have you got the 8 or 11 speed hub?

    My 11 speed has been on order for months while waiting for the Versa shifters.

    what are your thoughts about the bike and hub? and what about dealing with punctures? seems a real faff apparently to remove wheel and change an inner tube.

    cheers
  • pangolinpangolin Posts: 2,309
    Hi bobinski

    I have the 8 speed hub. Have you ridden a hub gear before? If not I would recommend you go and try a bike with alfine a bike shop, so you get a feel for it. It's not for everyone I don't think.

    Only got it last week so just done about 65 miles on it so far.

    It's noticeably heavier than my road bike (obviously)
    It's a bit slower, I can still match roadies but it feels like more work
    The brakes are good once set up, but when mine was delivered they rubbed. Nice not to be wary of braking in the rain though.
    I got the leather selle monte grappa saddle which is the first time I've tried a leather saddle. Feels comfy but a bit noisy (the saddle not the bike).

    Let me know if you have any other questions
    Genesis Croix de Fer
    Cube Attain
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