Cracked frame - what is the warranty position?

paul.skibum

OK - mate of mine has discovered a crack in the rear triangle of his Iron Horse Bootleg 1.0 which he bought from a well known online shop In May this year - it was an end of line discounted model.

He is a beginner rider and generally rides at Swinley - doesnt go big or do drops/jumps of any kind, rides within himself and the crack is in a position to be a manufacturing problem (through the tube next to a weld no dent or ding visable).

the store is offering £300 store credit - the bike cost £700 or so (£675?) but obviously £300 gets him nothing like a replacement FS frame and the parts are worthless to him without the frame.

What as the store obliged to do and is the offer trying it on somewhat?

supersonic

The shop is obliged to replace or repair, and if that is not possible a full or partial refund. Given that repair is impossible, and replacement difficult, then they have offered money on what they think the frame is worth. However I would push for a similar replacement. But 300 is probably about right given you only paid 675, you can't expect them to offer the full amount in this instance.

paul.skibum

But for the average Joe which my mate is a £300 refund leaving him with a broken frame and a pile of parts is no good to him - he cannot get a new frame for 300 but if he was to return the old bike, get a full refund he could possibly hunt down a similarly specced bargain bike (eg a Pauls Cycles special). £300 is a bit balls really in his circumstances.

Albeit I might have his old rear shock off him for my bike!

supersonic

But he only paid 675, the shop is working on that. The other route is to try for a full refund, but I doubt you'd get that as he has had the bike for a while. Tricky one.

I would insist the shop replaces the frame with something else.

njee20

That was going to be what I'd say, try and get a frame out of them, even if it's not the same, he's then at least got a complete bike he can either ride or sell.

paul.skibum

Quite - I dont think there is a whole lot they have that comes close in terms of price, we'll see.

Cheers guys.

P-Jay

That's a tough one. I think claiming against a Warranty is tricky because Iron Horse (or the Iron Horse that made that bike) folded last year.

He should read up on the sale of goods act, I don't think it recognises parts and I think lists repair, replace or refund as acceptable resolutions.

I would consider a bike that failed "in normal use" within 5 months as not fit for purpose and he should get a full cash refund, a suitable replacement (same style bike of a simular spec from any bike co) or repair which means a new suitable frame of any make.

£300 store credit is a bit cheeky, like you mention to use it has to buy from Evans (obviously) so by the time he's thrown in some more money to get a suitable replacement frame and their profit margin is taken into account it's cost them a whole lot less than £300.

P-Jay

P.S. if they can't get a decent resolution out of Evans, small claims court is easy to do and not at all like a criminal court so nothing to be worried about.

Chris`I

Does said mate not have the bike insured? I have all our bikes covered under the house insurance, like for like, so if anything happens to it I get them replaced. Sure the premium would go up slightly, but wouldnt leave me with half a bike which is whats happening here.

I would push for a full refund from Evans though, that wasnt fit for purpose really was it. Get another bike shop to do a report on it, you can get them for like £15 and would say the same if thats the case.

alexz

I'd suggest asking an auto or motorcycle repair shop if they can weld the material the bike frame is made of.
I'd assume that a good shop would have a MIG or TIG welder.

getonyourbike

alexz wrote:

I'd suggest asking an auto or motorcycle repair shop if they can weld the material the bike frame is made of.
I'd assume that a good shop would have a MIG or TIG welder.

Would you be confident riding a decent drop off on a frame that's been welded back together? I know I wouldn't

paul.skibum

It's not Evans.

I had some insurance that covered crash damage to frames but I thought it was a pretty exceptional add on to an insurance policy - I could be wrong. Mine did benefit me 3 times though!

Repaired by welder - no - alu frames dont take kindly to it and it just creates stress points elsewhere. If it was a steel frame then maybe.

It was my belief that if its not fit for purpose then a like for like or full refund was order of the day in this case as is pointed out with no Iron Horse to replace the frame thats a no go - said shop has no lie for like or even similar for like so I think full refund and look for a replacement probably with some additional cash from him is the only course.

Mccraque

Sale of Goods Act - Your gripe is not with the manufacturer, it's with the seller of the bike. It is then down to them to recover any costs from Iron Horse (which obviously they won't if they are bust)

The grey area though is wehther they have to replace the frame or the whole bike....I would probably seek advice from the CAB....

MountainMonster

Regardless of what part of the bike failed, they have an obligation as many have said to offer full replacement, or full refund. Nothing less. Fit for purpose act is there to help when things fail way before they should, and this bike was not fit for purpose. Tell your friend to tell them if they will not refund or replace, regardless of any loss to them, he will be seeing them in claims court.

supersonic

That is not the case, they are not obligated to provide a full bike replacement or full refund after this amount of time, but are obligated to replace or repair the item in question. However as the shop cannot offer a replacement [seemingly] or repair, then:

Neither repair nor replacement of the goods are possible. What can I do?

You may either pursue the old route of damages or a partial or full refund. Probably either would give you exactly the same amount of money. You would seek a full refund in scenarios such as those where you had enjoyed absolutely no benefit from the goods. If you had benefited from them then you would seek a partial refund as a fair remedy. This is exactly the reasoning that would be employed if you sought damages.

It seems their first offer is based on the value of the frame. If you were to relinquish the whole bike, I would expect more.

fatwomble

Sale of Goods Act - The seller is liable for up to 6 years and the goods should a length of time reasonably expected for the item.

In this case the bike (not the frame as it was bought as a whole) should last more than a few Months.

If they can not repair or replace with same, they should either offer a similar bike, replace the frame with similar or if unable to do that, then refund in full.

Most bike manufacturers offer a warrently on the frame so the bike shop shouldn't be out of pocket anyway, they should be able to get another frame from the manufacturer (Had a Specialized Enduro frame replaced after 18 Months with a shiny new one)

Citizens advice are a good place to get help

weeksy59

Supersonic has it right.

"fit for purpose" doens't come into play after that long really.

They're offering what is in reality a part-ex type refund, which is what they're perfectly entitled to do, bikes value - usage = £300.

The deal is fairly reasonable considering they can't obviously get a replacement frame of the same type/model.

IF he takes the cash, Evans has a couple of frames

http://www.evanscycles.com/categories/b ... er_page=20

paul.skibum

There should be a warranty on the frame - normally a year but some manufacturers offer more - your port of call is with the place you got it so they should be offering a warranty frame replacement. The fact the frame is no longer available is not my mates issue. The fact he bought a 1300 quid bike in a sale is also not his problem.

As things stand he has identified a potential replacement frame which the shop has offered him with a contribution from him (not unreasonable). As the frame has more travel than his existing frame, he is trying to add a pair of forks to the deal with a small discount on the forks too - if they agree I think this is a pretty good deal and well played all round given the circumstances and a triumph of common sense, customer service and reason.

A veritable age of enlightenment like the one they had in France.

Once all resolved and everyone happy I will name the shop and shower appropriate praise.

MRadd

Similar has happened to me, also with a well known online bike store (who currently have an advert just to the right as I write this!!!)

Ok, so it was a road bike (prolite Galileo) ... BUT.. The frame developed a crack on the bottom bracket outer, just where the chainstays meet the main body of the frame.

After much conversation with the warranty chief at the well known irish bike store, they agreed to offer me vouchers for the value of the frame, at the price I paid! I'd had the frame since March, and clocked about 2000 miles on it. (not including races.. but shhh). It was a discounted frame at the time down to £800 from £1000.

Ok, so maybe it helped that I mentioned I am currently working in the trade as a mechanic, but, 5 months use? and the frames cracked? They need to replace.. IMO at the value when purchased. Or, offer vouchers.

weeksy59

When you buy goods you enter into a contract with the seller of those goods. Under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 goods must be:
•'as described',
•'of satisfactory quality', and
•'fit for purpose' – this means both their everyday purpose, and also any specific purpose that you agreed with the seller (for example, if you specifically asked for a printer that would be compatible with your computer).
Goods sold must also match any sample you were shown in-store, or any description in a brochure.
Retailer or manufacturer

In most cases, your rights are against the retailer – the company that sold you the product – not the manufacturer, and so you must take any claim against the retailer. However, if you have bought something on hire purchase (HP), it is the HP company that is responsible.
If you think you have a claim under the Sale of Goods Act for one of the reasons above, you have several possible remedies, depending on the circumstances and on what you want done.
If you want to get your money back

If you buy a product that turns out to be faulty, you can choose to 'reject' it: give it back and get your money back. However, the law gives you only a 'reasonable' time to do this – what is reasonable depends on the product and how obvious the fault is. However, even with something like a car, you usually have no more than three to four weeks from when you receive it to reject it.
If you want to get a faulty item replaced or repaired

You have the right to get a faulty item replaced or repaired, if you're happy with this (or if it's too late to reject it). You can ask the retailer to do either, but they can normally choose to do whatever would be cheapest.
Under the Sale of Goods Act, the retailer must either repair or replace the goods 'within a reasonable time but without causing significant inconvenience'. If the seller doesn't do this, you are entitled to claim either:
•reduction on the purchase price, or
•your money back, minus an amount for the usage you've had of the goods (called 'recision').
If the retailer refuses to repair the goods, you may have the right to arrange for someone else to repair it, and then claim compensation from the retailer for the cost of doing this.
You have six years to make a claim for faulty goods in England, Wales and Northern Ireland; in Scotland you have five years.
What you need to do to prove your claim

If your claim under the Sale of Goods Act ends up in court, you may have to prove that the fault was present when you bought the item and not, for example, something that was the result of normal wear and tear.
Six months...and counting

If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were fit for purpose – or 'as described' – when it sold them. It is also responsible for proving that the problem was caused by you (for example, because you had an accident with the item that damaged it). Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was the retailer's.
So you may need to prove that the fault was not down to wear and tear or damage you caused, and that the product (or a component) should have lasted longer than it did. To do this you may need an expert's report, for example from an engineer or mechanic.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shoppi ... -purchases

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/ ... ur-rights/

paul.skibum

So my mate has agreed a replacement frame of a different type and value with a contribution from him of a sensible amount and as his forks are shorter than the suggested travel for the replacement he is buying a new fork which the store is willing to discount as well. Smiles all round.

Well done to all concerned, the new bike looks like it should be good once delivered and built and the nice people at Chainreactioncycles have doen themselves proud in my opinion.

supersonic

Sounds a good conclusion: sometimes these things have to be worked out between customer and retailer.