Descending!

Ho Bo

Right - I've been commuting on my hybrid for over a year and in that time I've had two accidents - both drivers' faults but won't go into boring detail. Anyway, nothing to put me off! Anyway, just got my first road bike with drops and I love it!

I love it on the flat and I love it up hill! Commuting not so great but I'm not too concerned by that as I'm keeping my old bike for winter.

My problem is with descents. I just don't feel safe - I feel like I'm wobbling all over the road, I feel like my hands are going to come off the hoods at any time, I feel like I can't brake properly - I certainly couldn't signal if I had to.

Now, I don't know whether this is because I'm just not used to this light bike and I'll get used to it, or this runs deeper and is a product of my insecurities from my accidents.

In any case, how do I improve my confidence going faster/downhill? If I don't, my bike is bit of a waste!

furrag

Confidence breeds confidence; Get on the drops when descending; you'll put more weight on the front wheel making it feel more secure and you'll also have better braking leverage from the drops.

That in turn should help prevent the wobbling and improve the braking, thus increasing your confidence. It took me a couple of months to get used to it though.

slowondefy2

If you put your hands on the drops you'll have much more confidence in the brakes.

Look 20-30 yards ahead, not underneath the front wheel.

Pedals level, lift your bum slightly off the seat and move weight back slightly.

Dont do the handlebar death-grip! Relax and let it run.

Question to add to the thread - which brake is best to gently moderate speed on descents?

datpat64

Drops is really good advice and keep off the front brake (or just dab it occassionally).
Any braking should be very light feathered braking as anything harder might cause real problems moving at speed.

It's really useful to descend the same hill afew times as well (do the same ride a couple of times). First time get a feel for how fast your going to be travelling, second time light use of the brakes and third time see if you can get down just a bit quicker with less use of the brakes. Some of the chaps i ride with barely seem t use their brakes when descending (I'm a bit more cautious).

Descending is the best bit of riding so above all get to enjoy it, even if you're not as fast as you'd like

dmch2

Use the drops, look far ahead (so you can see any ruts in the road and avoid the. And also because it makes it more stable) and relax. To speed up slide you bum back and body down.

I feel more stable with the pedals vertical (rather than horizontal) so my weight is mostly on one leg. i can then lift my bum a bit to get a more aerodynamic position.

To slow down sit up a bit and then use the brakes if you need to. I think (as does sheldon) that you should only ever use the front brake.

Also, before the hill starts have a good look behind you for traffic. If it's clear then you can use a bit more road without fear of a car coming past. Once you're up to 40mph or cars generally don't bother passing unless it very wide.

dmch2

One more thing, what bike have you got and what tyres? My bike is so much better cornering at speed now I've got the Conti 4000S tyres compared to the oem trek ones. They actually make the bike turn when I ask it!

John.T

datpat64 wrote:

Drops is really good advice and keep off the front brake (or just dab it occassionally).
Any braking should be very light feathered braking as anything harder might cause real problems moving at speed.

I don't think so. Most braking is done on the front one and the harder you are slowing the more so. The rear is used up to just below locking point and with hard front use this is not much.
For how to descend and brake for corners read this.
http://www.flammerouge.je/content/3_factsheets/2006/descend.htm

Ho Bo

My bike is a Specialized Secteur Elite. Wheels, tyres etc are what it came with....here is the spec - http://www.evanscycles.com/products/spe ... e-ec019549

Thank you for all the advice - I've been practising on the drops today as I haven't really used them yet (thought I would wait until I was more comfortable!), but was pleasantly surprised at how steady I felt! And yes braking is much better so that alone gives me more confidence. Will try them on a nice long steady hill on Tuesday - see if it feels any better.

Thanks for link for descending and braking - I can see I have much to learn!

I've also tightened my headset which seemed surprisingly very loose. Could this have made the bike wobble more? Sorry if I sound a bit dim - this is all completely new to me.

morstar

Loose headset will definitely make things more rattly.
Everything will feel much more positive without extra vibration from a loose headset.

dmch2

Ho Bo wrote:

My bike is a Specialized Secteur Elite. Wheels, tyres etc are what it came with....here is the spec - http://www.evanscycles.com/products/spe ... e-ec019549

No idea how good those tyres are but first time I tried a particular downhill corner with my new tyres I used literally half the road I used to use and felt a lot more comfortable that I was in control. Might be worth starting a topic asking if they're any good?

Ho Bo wrote:

Thank you for all the advice - I've been practising on the drops today as I haven't really used them yet (thought I would wait until I was more comfortable!), but was pleasantly surprised at how steady I felt! And yes braking is much better so that alone gives me more confidence. Will try them on a nice long steady hill on Tuesday - see if it feels any better.

I hate braking on the hoods and almost always got to the drops for any serious amount of braking. Possibly my small hands, possibly it'll be better with the netter pads (must try...). I also find the hoods far less stable than the drops so prefer the control of being on the drops.

briantrumpet

Ho Bo wrote:

Will try them on a nice long steady hill on Tuesday - see if it feels any better.

I think that that is a good way to build up confidence - I can feel quite happy doing up to 40mph on a long steady downward slope, but much more 'exposed' on a short steeper section, even if going no faster - though I'm getting less reliant on the brakes on steeper hills now, as I know the bike and I can cope with higher speeds.

I'm still VERY cautious though on any roads where there are any junctions coming up, having once been knocked off by someone who looked straight through me. That was bad enough on a straight level road at moderate speed, so hills, high speed and junctions make my risk assessment instinct kick into overdrive.

Ho Bo

dmch2: I have small hands too so I think that's part of the problem - I've just added some inserts and the extra inch or so helps a lot on the drops.

briantrumpet: Exactly how I feel - I'm fine going as fast I as I want on the flat or a slight downhill but it's the steeper hills, even at the same speed, that bother me. One of my accidents was a driver pulling out of a side road and the other was a car turning right across me so I'm also a tiny bit cautious about that (although I don't consciously think about it while riding).

This hill that I will try has a good surface, no side roads and I will get up to about 30mph. It also gets gradually less steep until it flattens out so it's perfect to practise on. Can't wait to give it a go now!

johnsilva

Descending is just one of those things that takes confidence and practice, a bit like women. Practice on a hill that you know well i.e. find the style of descending that makes you feel most comfortable. Also, because your bike is new, you might still be getting used to it. It will come after time, don't worry .

furrag

johnsilva wrote:

Descending is just one of those things that takes confidence and practice, a bit like women.

I'm desperately trying to refrain from making a Box hill joke...

sherer

get to know the road you do it on too. I do a lot of descending practice on one road and know it really well. As above as I know I will get 30 plus I look behind me at the top of the hill , try and wave at any cars at the top so they know I am taking the centre of the road, and then go down using more road.

I find the road surface is better in the centre of the road than at the side and at those speeds i'd rather be on a better surface than ride in the gutter

UpTheWall

You'll get used to the lighter feel of the bike in time.

All good advice on the descending so far:
- use the drops
- keep your gravity low

Also when turning, say right, keep your left foot low (stops you hitting the floor with your right foot, and gives you better balance / control)

And braking will change when you're cornering. If you're in a hard turn you don't want to be using the rear brake as you'll end up skidding.

As for putting your weight on the pedals or the saddle, that doesn't matter too much on road.

I would add that you should mostly stay within your personal safety limits, but don't be afraid to push them a little every now and again.

Be careful with the loose headset - I'll not go into the tech, but I'd get that adjusted properly when you go in for your service.

Butterd2

dmch2 wrote:

To slow down sit up a bit and then use the brakes if you need to. I think (as does sheldon) that you should only ever use the front brake.

Sorry but don't agree there, if you need to brake mid corner for example on a downhill (I know you shouldn't have to in an ideal world) then using your front brake is going to finish badly. Feathering the rear has definite advantages in certain situations. I would not recommend taking your rear brake off just yet.

rick_chasey

Just relax, and let the bike move you, rather than you move the bike.

Be gentle and smooth, but above all, relax!

balthazar

John.T wrote:

For how to descend and brake for corners read this.
http://www.flammerouge.je/content/3_factsheets/2006/descend.htm

Hmm. I think that article is a bit of a mess – especially as it drones on about "countersteer". I'd suggest this instead:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/descending.html

as a straightforward, prosaic analysis of biking downhill.

Mike67

Lots of good advice on here.

I tend to feather both brakes but use the rear a bit more..no idea if this is correct but it works for me.
Good sense to me in the middle of the lane...it also gives you a bit of leeway if you overcook a bend slightly without having to avoid a car that's alongside you :oops:

On a local hill near me which I know well I'd be doing 40mph plus in the dry, but I was out today on roads I didn't know doing less than 20mph down some hills.
This time of year there is quite a bit of mud around near me as well as loose grit and hedgecutting debris....it doesn't make for confident descents, especially on bends

mattward1979

I was going to suggest hitting the drops, but realise that EVERY post before me suggested this =P

My advice is to relax, and keep alert!

On a big downhill my eyes dart around like a crack fiend, looking for pots, gouges, debris, motorists, peds and motorcyclists! But rarely do I tap the brakes on a clear run.

If you need some inspiration and some visual stimuli, google one of the good downhill cyclists, but I dont reccomend trying to hang your arse back over the seat so your sphincter is in danger of being reamed by your back wheel... thats Just nuts!

John.T

balthazar wrote:

John.T wrote:

For how to descend and brake for corners read this.
http://www.flammerouge.je/content/3_factsheets/2006/descend.htm

Hmm. I think that article is a bit of a mess – especially as it drones on about "countersteer". I'd suggest this instead:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/descending.html

as a straightforward, prosaic analysis of biking downhill.

Two or three paragraphs on counter steer in the Flamme Rouge article including how to do it. Only one in the Brandt link and no information on how, just that you must do it. I will stick with the first one. Brandt does give some good info but much of it is also in the Flamme Rouge one.