Will I notice much difference by changing brake set?

gregster10217

I've got a Boardman Ltd Ed Team carbon, fitted mostly with SRAM Rival groupset. I've been looking at changing the brake calipers from the standard fitted ones (Tektro I believe) to SRAM Rival/Force.
Other than the aesthetics, will there be a marked improvement in braking? I've already fitted Koolstop pads, which made a massive difference.
Thanks

Bar Shaker

Probably not. The Tektros fitted are quite good and virtually the same weight as the Rival callipers. They are all forged aluminium so no major difference in strength/stiffness. The Force callipers seem expensive compared to the Rivals.

I had thought of changing mine but since re-facing my pads, the Tektros have been transformed and I now have all the stopping power I could ever use.

As for looks...

Tektro 305g


Rival 287g


Force 280g

Scrumple

You wont get much difference unless you go for RED.
But at a huge price.

No need to add force unless you are set on changing for "bling" rather than performance.

Bar Shaker

Why would Red be much better?

Pads make the biggest difference IMHO.

father_jack

I noticed the difference between Tektro to R650 however new pads, so only way to tell is to use the older pads. But I couldn't be bothered to remove them, until the new ones are worn out.

Scrumple

Bar Shaker wrote:

Why would Red be much better?
.

Because they are much better.

(by common consent)

allezcourage

You'd think Red would be better, but it was interesting to see that Endura Racing swapped out their Red calipers for Rival in the ToB this year. Apparently the arms flex less.

El zilcho

So, just to crash the thread a bit, if I replace my pads with better ones, will it have a big impact on the braking performance? The brakes themselves are fairly basic ones.

dmch2

Yes. I fitted swissstop greens to the unbranded callipers in my trek 1.5 and now the brakes just work rather than causing mild panic whenever i need them.

El zilcho

Funnily enough mine's a Trek 1.5 as well. I never realised how much difference pads make; I'm more used to mtb brakes where the pads are specific to each type of brake so there isn't the same choice.

dmch2

Compared to the deore XT brakes on my hybrid the trek's were terrifying at times. Much happier now

Bar Shaker

Scrumple wrote:

Bar Shaker wrote:

Why would Red be much better?
.

Because they are much better.

(by common consent)

So its a faith thing, just like religion. No proof required.

allezcourage wrote:

You'd think Red would be better, but it was interesting to see that Endura Racing swapped out their Red calipers for Rival in the ToB this year. Apparently the arms flex less.

Clearly the consent isn't as common as it would seem.

El zilcho

dmch2 wrote:

Compared to the deore XT brakes on my hybrid the trek's were terrifying at times. Much happier now

I'm used to Avid Juicys with 8" disks so the "if you wish to stop, please apply in writing with at least a week's notice" of the brakes on the Trek are a bit unnerving.

Scrumple

Red brakes are amongst the best you can buy.

Read some expert reviews... not thread ramblings.

Like I said, the improvement is not necessarily worth the extra spend. Value wise they are £££, performance wise they are fantastic. Ask an expert, not a bikeradar weenie.

rolf_f

Scrumple wrote:

Red brakes are amongst the best you can buy.

Read some expert reviews... not thread ramblings.

Like I said, the improvement is not necessarily worth the extra spend. Value wise they are £££, performance wise they are fantastic. Ask an expert, not a bikeradar weenie.

To be fair, unless you can provide links to the expert reviews, all you are doing is thread rambling, bikeradar weenie style

Seriously - I'd be interested to know. Ultimately, a brake is a fairly simple thing. The performance (assuming broadly similar design in terms of leverage) has to be mostly down to the pads plus the weight savings which probably won't be noticeable to anyone. I wonder if the benefit of (for example) ceramic bearing pivots isn't more than offset by choosing UK brake routing with the higher cable friction to the front brakes.

Pokerface

Red are no different than Force except in weight. Otherwise, EXACTLY the same. Probably similar to Rival also.

No difference between Red and Force calipers. And the pads make the most difference of all.

gkerr4

yeah but everyone 'wants' red surely? - i mean otherwise its like accepting those Sora bits over dura-ace - or picking veloce over super-record!

The ceramic bearings etc etc "probably" do make a difference in the braking performance - but past a good branded caliper like the rivals you are well into diminishing returns teritory - but think of this, we need people to buy the higher priced things in order to make the lower priced things more affordable - the less price sensitive consumer, thankfuly, picks up the development costs!

I still want super-record.

(oh and on topic - IMO the pads make most of the difference and koolstop salmon pads are AWESOME!)

gregster10217

Thanks everyone, question answered - won't be swapping them. The pads did make a massive difference, so will be sticking with them.

Pokerface

gkerr4 wrote:

The ceramic bearings etc etc "probably" do make a difference in the braking performance -

Ceramic bearings in a brakeset? ANY bearings in a breakset!? Am I missing something?

gkerr4

yeah - don't the top end sets have bearings in them rather than bushes for the pivots?

I'm not sure they make much difference at all - it's not a great range of motion is it - but I know that 2008 record (when it was top of the tree) had bearings in them over bushes.

rolf_f

Pokerface wrote:

Ceramic bearings in a brakeset? ANY bearings in a breakset!? Am I missing something?

Clearly you are - a missed opportunity to buy some performance enhancing bling

Actually, as far as Campag goes they might not be ceramic in Super Record. The catalogue from last year was a bit vague. But, as you say, ANY bearings in a brakeset....!!

rodgers73

I've got ancient Weinneman brakes on my bike and they're rubbish. Do I get more braking power by changing them AND the pads or just the pads?

Cheers

Tom

Pokerface

rodgers73 wrote:

I've got ancient Weinneman brakes on my bike and they're rubbish. Do I get more braking power by changing them AND the pads or just the pads?

Cheers

Tom

Start with the pads - that usually does the trick. New brakes and pads will certainly help - but may not be necessary. Only you can decide.

Bar Shaker

Before you buy anything, try defacing your pads with some sand paper. It can make a huge difference.

rodgers73

Just rough them up a bit then?

Pokerface

Bar Shaker wrote:

Before you buy anything, try defacing your pads with some sand paper. It can make a huge difference.

Surely that will only work for the length of time it takes to wear down again!? (No more than one ride).

If you're OK doing that on a daily basis to save a few ££ on new pads, I guess that could work. :oops:

Hrun

We used to sand car pads on the service. Takes off the glazing that results from heat and fine dust. No reason why it wouldn't work for bike pads.

paul64

My SRAM Rival lever and caliper combination inspire much more confidence than my 9-Speed Dura Ace STI and Ultegra SL caliper combination. No question the SRAM is superior on original pads which are now 15 months old. I was so underwhelmed by the Ultegra SL calipers that I quickly changed the pads to Koolstop Salmon. Sure it improved things but not enough.

My guess is that the lever plays a part since the SRAM design seems to let you get a firm squeeze on the pads, more so than old-school Shimano. I also guess I haven't seen what the Ultegra SL calipers are capable of on the current levers.

So if the OP is already running SRAM levers (I don't remember) then perhaps changing the calipers won't achieve much.

Bar Shaker

The pads dry out for a number of reason most often through lack of use, perhaps sitting in storage before being bought. Re-facing them is normally enough to ensure that, with regular use, they stay fresh on the faces.

Once glazed there isn't enough friction to remove the outer surface and they stay glazed.