Recommend a frameset under £2k

rokkala

Sorry for another of this type of thread, but i don't see much on the search function for this.

My company have increased C2W allowance up to £2000 for this year and i am thinking about getting a really nice frameset and putting the components from my current 'good' bike onto that.

Need some recommendations on what i could/should be looking at for this sort of price-point. Don't necessarily need to spend the full £2k, and i'm guessing i'd not get as good a bike in the end if i bought a full bike for the £2k?

Bike would be for racing and sunny weather days only!

Needs to be from company who has distributors in the UK, so rules out Canyon for instance.

Cheers

greasedscotsman

Spesh Tarmac SL3?

Chip \'oyler

Viner Volata - circa £1800, and I think it's available made-to-measure

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... a-10-39753

galatzo

Scapin from Avanti Cycles
Was very close to getting a Blake frame and forks.
Lovely people to deal with.

greasedscotsman

Lots of here within your budget.

http://www.evanscycles.com/categories/b ... mes?page=1

OK, it's Evans, but you should be able to use your voucher there or might just give you an idea?

vorsprung

Rokkala wrote:

My company have increased C2W allowance up to £2000 for this year and i am thinking about getting a really nice frameset and putting the components from my current 'good' bike onto that.

ISTR that C2W can only be applied to a complete bike, plus necessary lights and safety gear

So you cannot use it to buy a bling frame and then put your old groupset on it

Also you might like to look at the changed regulations for "buying back" the bike at the end of the rental period. In previous years this was done at a nominal amount like 5% of the purchase price. But the tax man has altered the guidance so that the price is more "realistic"
This means that C2W scheme is much less attractive than before

Chip \'oyler

vorsprung wrote:

Rokkala wrote:

My company have increased C2W allowance up to £2000 for this year and i am thinking about getting a really nice frameset and putting the components from my current 'good' bike onto that.

ISTR that C2W can only be applied to a complete bike, plus necessary lights and safety gear

So you cannot use it to buy a bling frame and then put your old groupset on it

Also you might like to look at the changed regulations for "buying back" the bike at the end of the rental period. In previous years this was done at a nominal amount like 5% of the purchase price. But the tax man has altered the guidance so that the price is more "realistic"
This means that C2W scheme is much less attractive than before

If the OPs employees have set up their own scheme then they can administer it how they like.

il_tuono

+1 for the above. I was just about to use the C2W scheme to get my new Reynolds Assaults, sent off my form, only to get a mail from HR advising me of the 25% 'disposal value' at the end of the 12 month period. i.e. £250

If you use your C2W voucher you have to pay the RRP for everything so certainly not as attractive as it once was !

edhornby

something from Sabbath? Monday's Child? if you want Ti then you'd be getting a UK builder direct and could do MTM

sundog

Rokkala wrote:

Sorry for another of this type of thread, but i don't see much on the search function for this.

My company have increased C2W allowance up to £2000 for this year and i am thinking about getting a really nice frameset and putting the components from my current 'good' bike onto that.

Need some recommendations on what i could/should be looking at for this sort of price-point. Don't necessarily need to spend the full £2k, and i'm guessing i'd not get as good a bike in the end if i bought a full bike for the £2k?

Bike would be for racing and sunny weather days only!

Needs to be from company who has distributors in the UK, so rules out Canyon for instance.

Cheers

I thought Canyon were sorting out a UK distributor?

vorsprung

Chip \'oyler wrote:

vorsprung wrote:

Rokkala wrote:

My company have increased C2W allowance up to £2000 for this year and i am thinking about getting a really nice frameset and putting the components from my current 'good' bike onto that.

ISTR that C2W can only be applied to a complete bike, plus necessary lights and safety gear

So you cannot use it to buy a bling frame and then put your old groupset on it

Also you might like to look at the changed regulations for "buying back" the bike at the end of the rental period. In previous years this was done at a nominal amount like 5% of the purchase price. But the tax man has altered the guidance so that the price is more "realistic"
This means that C2W scheme is much less attractive than before

If the OPs employees have set up their own scheme then they can administer it how they like.

Yes, in theory any employer could have some kind of bonus bonanza which supplied marvellous bike equipment at almost no cost.

However, in practice the C2W schemes use various tax features to give the employee a break. Everyone has to pay tax but the C2W scheme allows the bike purchase to avoid VAT and income tax. This happens by the company following various processes and procedures. I am not an accountant but the scheme is described in this article in the Guardian online in simple terms even I can follow

The important change to the scheme for current times is to this (quote from Guardian article)

At the end of the contract hire period, users are often asked to pay a nominal fee (typically 5% of the voucher's value, plus VAT) and the bike is theirs to keep.

The nominal fee is not now 5% it is more like 25% as described above by il_tuono

Monty Dog

Deda Scuro RS from Ribble for £800, some black duck tape to hide the stickers and a pair of carbon wheels! You can pay nearly twice this for the same frameset with a different paintjob.

gavintc

I have a Cervelo RS, admittedly it is now 3 years old, but I love it - best bike I have owned . I note that it is currently retailing as a frameset for 1800 GBP .

Chip \'oyler

vorsprung wrote:

Chip \'oyler wrote:

vorsprung wrote:

Rokkala wrote:

My company have increased C2W allowance up to £2000 for this year and i am thinking about getting a really nice frameset and putting the components from my current 'good' bike onto that.

ISTR that C2W can only be applied to a complete bike, plus necessary lights and safety gear

So you cannot use it to buy a bling frame and then put your old groupset on it

Also you might like to look at the changed regulations for "buying back" the bike at the end of the rental period. In previous years this was done at a nominal amount like 5% of the purchase price. But the tax man has altered the guidance so that the price is more "realistic"
This means that C2W scheme is much less attractive than before

If the OPs employees have set up their own scheme then they can administer it how they like.

Yes, in theory any employer could have some kind of bonus bonanza which supplied marvellous bike equipment at almost no cost.

However, in practice the C2W schemes use various tax features to give the employee a break. Everyone has to pay tax but the C2W scheme allows the bike purchase to avoid VAT and income tax. This happens by the company following various processes and procedures. I am not an accountant but the scheme is described in this article in the Guardian online in simple terms even I can follow

The important change to the scheme for current times is to this (quote from Guardian article)

At the end of the contract hire period, users are often asked to pay a nominal fee (typically 5% of the voucher's value, plus VAT) and the bike is theirs to keep.

The nominal fee is not now 5% it is more like 25% as described above by il_tuono

My employer set up their own C2W scheme - with themselves being the credit brokers. It works on the same principles, no VAT, tax breaks etc and with a nominal fee at the end. Best thing is about their scheme is that there is no ceiling on bike price! And I suspect that you could just buy a frame on their scheme - they're pretty flexible.

Bozman

"IF" you can use it to get a frame, have a nose at the Look 585 or a Viner Perfecta, two blinding frames and you'll stand out from the Specialized/Trek crowd!

fleshtuxedo

Kuota KOM

http://www.airevalleycycles.com/product ... 5502&rs=gb

Chip \'oyler

Bozman wrote:

"IF" you can use it to get a frame, have a nose at the Look 585 or a Viner Perfecta, two blinding frames and you'll stand out from the Specialized/Trek crowd!

The Perfecta is a great frame but I suspect is a nudge over the OPs budget

bigpikle

sadly the Inland Revenue finally realised this is a perk and so even if you dont get charged the higher final value you are liable for being taxed on the 'benefit' you get from not paying market value for your bike. The days of a cheap new bike every year are coming to an end...

vorsprung

Chip \'oyler wrote:

My employer set up their own C2W scheme - with themselves being the credit brokers. It works on the same principles, no VAT, tax breaks etc and with a nominal fee at the end. Best thing is about their scheme is that there is no ceiling on bike price! And I suspect that you could just buy a frame on their scheme - they're pretty flexible.

Sounds pretty good in light of the recent changes to the "normal" schemes

alfablue

vorsprung wrote:

Chip \'oyler wrote:

My employer set up their own C2W scheme - with themselves being the credit brokers. It works on the same principles, no VAT, tax breaks etc and with a nominal fee at the end. Best thing is about their scheme is that there is no ceiling on bike price! And I suspect that you could just buy a frame on their scheme - they're pretty flexible.

Sounds pretty good in light of the recent changes to the "normal" schemes

No matter how they dress it up, to get the tax breaks it can only be on complete bikes and certain accessories, and at the end, if a nominal fee is charged and the employee is deemed to receive a taxable benefit (i.e. a bike worth more than the nominal fee) then they will have a tax liability. Of course, they could cheat.

izza

greasedscotsman wrote:

Spesh Tarmac SL3?

+ 1

Smonks

Depending on how nice your employer is with regards the C2W scheme, you can keep extending the 'loan' period, so rather than pay 25% (as it now stands) at the end of a year, you can extend the loan for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th year until eventually 25% of it's value 4 years down the line will be considerably less.

If I had lots of money to spend on a bling frame, I would love one of these...

http://www.lookcycle.com/en/uk/route/premium/586-sl-premium-frame.html

Probably showing my age when Look Mondrian jerseys were all the rage in the mid eighties :?

alfablue

Also, instead of paying 25% fee, pay 5% as before (so £50 on £1000) and pay tax on the £200 "benefit", which will be £40 or £80 depending on your tax rate, total £90 or £130 - still better than £250, and all legal.

appletrees

I'm reliably informed by a bike shop that does these things, that as long as there's a frame number and a description that appears "bike like", it is assumed by the schemes that this relates to a bike...so if your lbs is willing, there is unofficial flexibility anyway...

rokkala

Thanks for the replies.

Actually i'm now thinking Monty had a good idea.

Monty Dog wrote:

Deda Scuro RS from Ribble for £800, some black duck tape to hide the stickers and a pair of carbon wheels! You can pay nearly twice this for the same frameset with a different paintjob.

Not exactly got the prestige/wow factor but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes. Going to feel a lot better racing on a frame that I can afford to replace and not constantly worry about damaging!

Looks like a seriously good frame for the racing too.

What are integrated seatposts like from a comfort and ride point of view? Any difference at all?

Chip \'oyler

Rokkala wrote:

Thanks for the replies.

Actually i'm now thinking Monty had a good idea.

Monty Dog wrote:

Deda Scuro RS from Ribble for £800, some black duck tape to hide the stickers and a pair of carbon wheels! You can pay nearly twice this for the same frameset with a different paintjob.

Not exactly got the prestige/wow factor but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes. Going to feel a lot better racing on a frame that I can afford to replace and not constantly worry about damaging!

Looks like a seriously good frame for the racing too.

What are integrated seatposts like from a comfort and ride point of view? Any difference at all?

Well a Scuro didn't do my brother any harm racing - he won a RR, got numerous top ten's in 2/3/4 events and got his 2nd cat licence on it.

bikestewy

I strongly recomend Kuota.

They're a bit different from a spec, trek, giant etc and packed with technology. Above all they unbelievable value. They ahve several dealers across the UK you can contact.
http://www.dhwagencies.com/regionmap.htm

http://www.kuota.it/biciclette.php?IDCategoria=1
The KOM flagship retails at £1995
Kult £1895
Kebel £1195

Depends what your preference is really. If they're good enough to win tour de france stages.......

neeb

What are integrated seatposts like from a comfort and ride point of view? Any difference at all?

Effectively no difference compared to a standard carbon post I reckon - or at least any differences will be due to the individual frame rather than whether it has an integrated post or not, and perhaps what size frame you have (how much extension once cut). The Scuro RS is a moderately comfortable ride, I'd say that mine absorbs marginally more road buzz than my Ti frame with Thomson alloy post, and about the same as that frame when I had a carbon post on it.

rokkala

Cool, thats the way i'm going to go then.

Bit anxious about having to cut the seatpost though :shock:

neeb

Bit anxious about having to cut the seatpost though Shocked

Just make sure you know how much height is added by the the seatmast & saddle etc. once it is on the post. Put the seatmast and saddle on the uncut post, measure the height, then subtract your normal saddle height to get the amount you need to cut off.

Beware both when buying the frame and when installing the saddle to cut the post that the Scuro RS has a pretty steep seat tube angle, so the effective TT length is longer than it seems by the numbers alone. Make sure you get the saddlle to the correct distance behind the BB before measuring its height if your saddle is not completely flat on top (this may mean the clamp is at a different place on the rails) and then measure from the BB to the same point on the saddle you measure to on your current setup.

P.S. you have a few millimeters to play with using the clamp if you cut it too short, but not that many...

rokkala

Useful info, thanks.

The Sportive Racing i have is a Large, 55cm frame, have always felt i'm just slightly too stretched on it when reaching for the hoods, meaning my default hand position is actually at the bar bend, and thats including having changed from an 11cm stem to 9cm.

Based on all the calculators and guides that use height/inseam etc it seems i should be buying large again, but i'm thinking now medium in the Scuro RS would be better? Effective tube tube length on my Sportive is 570mm, medium in Scuro RS is 535mm. With the extra distance the seat tube angle gives, you reckon that would be right?

Going large would make it 550mm :? 5'11" and 33" inside leg if that helps any!