best wheels for the price

dmch2

I weighed my trek 1.5 oem wheels last night (whilst changing tyres)
- front 1040g inc skewer and tape
- rear 1400g inc skewer, tape and cassette so 1170g without cassette according to CRC.

So 2210g for the pair inc tape and skewers.

Since I saved 260g by going to lighter tyres (Conti GP4000S rather than the Bontrage Race AW Plus) I wondered what I could save on wheels.

I was wondering what the general recommendation for light (rather than aero) wheels is?

So I looked up some of the wheels regularly mentioned here to compare weight, price etc. Some weights (Mavic, Shimano) didn't mention skewers so I've added 105g which PX quote for a pair of theirs.

So in weight order...

Mavic Askiums         Wiggle    1900g  £162
Mavic Ksyrium         Wiggle    1875g  £221
Fulcrum 7             Wiggle    1849g  £144
Fulcrum 5             Wiggle    1760g  £180
Planet X model B      Planet X  1758g  £125
Fulcrum 3             Wiggle    1659g  £405
Pro-Lite Bracciano    Ribble    1601g  £177
Shimano RS80          Wiggle    1591g  £395

So it looks like you should buy as far down the following list as you can afford noting that the Mavics are far too expensive for the price:

Planet X model B      Planet X  1758g  £125
Pro-Lite Bracciano    Ribble    1601g  £177
Shimano RS80          Wiggle    1591g  £395

In summary we should all go and buy Model Bs or ideally save a bit more and get Pro-Lite Braccianos from Ribble. Unless you've got loads of money spare to go off the chart.

In my case I could save another 452g with Model Bs (on top of the 260g saved by swapping tyres). Or another 609g by going to Ribble with £177 - which I assume would be the maximum you could ever justify spending on wheels for a Trek 1.5 (alloy frame, carbon forks, the 2010 RRP was £800)

So, now you can all tell me what other factors I'm missing!

(I'm guessing that the Mavics are perhaps much stronger that some on the list?)

Edited to modify the RS80 price to a pair!
Edited to add the Pro-Lite Braccianos
Edited (twice!) to get the PXB weight correct

beeroclock

I think you'll find that £225 buys you the rear wheel only on the RS80's

cheers philip

beeroclock

I think you'll find that £225 buys you the rear wheel only on the RS80's

cheers philip

pastey_boy

sub 1500grams for £175
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... ROLWHFR280
and if you can tell me where on earth i can get rs80,s for £225 please i will be your friend.
also p/x model b,s weigh 1653grams

wicked

I'll get in before anyone else does.............give Derek at wheelsmith a call.

dmch2

beeroclock wrote:

I think you'll find that £225 buys you the rear wheel only on the RS80's

cheers philip

You're correct! I got fooled by http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Shimano_Ultegra_RS80_Carbon_Clincher_Rear_Wheel/5360037031/?resetpage=1&rn=84 having a picture of a pair of wheels but it's only for the rear! D-oh!

dmch2

wicked wrote:

I'll get in before anyone else does.............give Derek at wheelsmith a call.

I'm not about to buy anything, just curious for now. I'm sure I will at some point though!

dmch2

pastey_boy wrote:

sub 1500grams for £175
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... ROLWHFR280
and if you can tell me where on earth i can get rs80,s for £225 please i will be your friend.
also p/x model b,s weigh 1653grams

I'll add the pro-lites in
I've corrected the deliberate RS80 mistake
the PX model Bs are 1653 WITHOUT skewer, all the above weights are WITH skewer.

pastey_boy

dmch2 wrote:

pastey_boy wrote:

sub 1500grams for £175
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... ROLWHFR280
and if you can tell me where on earth i can get rs80,s for £225 please i will be your friend.
also p/x model b,s weigh 1653grams

I'll add the pro-lites in
I've corrected the deliberate RS80 mistake
the PX model Bs are 1653 WITHOUT skewer, all the above weights are WITH skewer.

your weight is still way out, p/x skewers weigh 105grams a pair not each

dmch2

pastey_boy wrote:

your weight is still way out, p/x skewers weigh 105grams a pair not each

right again - doing too many things at once! (This, on phone to mum, discussing arrangements with wife, watching telly, doing mental arithmetic...)

dmch2

I guess the RS80s cold be cheaper if you shop around but for a 10g saving there's no point. Are the PXB and the Pro-Lites not as stiff as some others or are they as good as they seem?

And I still need to look up wheelsmith (but that's for later as beer and football calls)

pastey_boy

if you have a good dig around you will find so very good bargains out there, especially at this time of year

clx1

in my experience weight is not necessarily the most important factor when choosing a wheel, it depends what you intend to use the wheel for.
I prefer a general purpose wheel to be aerodynamic, laterally stiff and light in that order.
I have Fulcrum R3s, Zipp 101s and Zipp 303s(clinchers).
For me the best wheel of the three is the heaviest and as it happens the most expensive, the 303s.
Having said that the Fulcrum R3s are a great wheel for the money.

dmch2

CLX1 wrote:

in my experience weight is not necessarily the most important factor when choosing a wheel, it depends what you intend to use the wheel for.
I prefer a general purpose wheel to be aerodynamic, laterally stiff and light in that order.
I have Fulcrum R3s, Zipp 101s and Zipp 303s(clinchers).
For me the best wheel of the three is the heaviest and as it happens the most expensive, the 303s.
Having said that the Fulcrum R3s are a great wheel for the money.

TBH that's exactly the sort of reply I was trying to provoke. Otherwise no one every buy RS80s over the pro-lites yet plenty of people do.

I was assuming that stiffness as is important if not more so than weight. It's bad enough accelerating weight but at least you keep the momentum. Sloppy wheels are worse as they'll just absorb loads of the effort put in.

I'm hoping to add a few stiff but slightly heavier wheels into my list as they get recommended.

dennisn

If you're serious about weight, as your main concern, then forget clinchers and go with tubulars.

dmch2

dennisn wrote:

If you're serious about weight, as your main concern, then forget clinchers and go with tubulars.

I'm not that serious. Just interested to see which wheels are good value. Stiffness and weight are both important. Once you get down to tubulars the gains are getter fairly small for added faff so not worth it for my recreational cycling.

How much lighter are they though? If they save the equivalent weight to spending £50 more on wheels then that's useful for the weight obsessed (not me) budget cyclist.

solsurf

fulcrum 3 for me having been through the mavic choices, as said before its not just the weight that matters. let us know how know how you get on.

2alexcoo

Every manufacturer quotes weights without skewers, so don't worry about adding the weight of skewers on, just compare them as is.

I suspect your stock wheels are bang on 2kg without skewers or rim tape, so use that as a baseline.

dmch2

anybody want to comment about the stiffness of the model Bs and pro-lites? Are the similarly priced but 100g ish heavier fulcrum 7 and 5s stiffer enough to consider?

(i expect that fulcrum 3s are too expensive for most of us but two people have commended them)

dennisn

dmch2 wrote:

dennisn wrote:

If you're serious about weight, as your main concern, then forget clinchers and go with tubulars.

I'm not that serious. Just interested to see which wheels are good value. Stiffness and weight are both important. Once you get down to tubulars the gains are getter fairly small for added faff so not worth it for my recreational cycling.

How much lighter are they though? If they save the equivalent weight to spending £50 more on wheels then that's useful for the weight obsessed (not me) budget cyclist.

Can't say how much lighter or much about cost savings for tubulars. But, and I've said this before, I doubt you'll find a better, lighter, more durable, easier to work on, better climbing, use on any road, wheelset than DA or Record hubs, Mavic Reflex rims, double butted spokes 28X3 or 32X3, brass nipples, Conti Sprinter tires. FWIW

dmch2

If that's the ultimate - how much does the pair of wheels cost?

2alexcoo

dmch2 wrote:

anybody want to comment about the stiffness of the model Bs and pro-lites? Are the similarly priced but 100g ish heavier fulcrum 7 and 5s stiffer enough to consider?

(i expect that fulcrum 3s are too expensive for most of us but two people have commended them)

I've owned Fulcrum 5s and Model Bs, and the Fulcrums are much stiffer in my experience. I found the Planet Xs quite flexy, although I do weigh 95kg.

gavintc

CLX1 wrote:

in my experience weight is not necessarily the most important factor when choosing a wheel, it depends what you intend to use the wheel for.
I prefer a general purpose wheel to be aerodynamic, laterally stiff and light in that order.
I have Fulcrum R3s, Zipp 101s and Zipp 303s(clinchers).
For me the best wheel of the three is the heaviest and as it happens the most expensive, the 303s.
Having said that the Fulcrum R3s are a great wheel for the money.

When I started cycling I focussed everything on weight, getting the best weight for the money. I specced and then built the first road bike. My big mistake was the wheels. I chose very light wheels for an excellent discount price. They lasted about a year, before they broke. By then I now had some more funds and had spent some time reading about lateral stability, so my replacement wheels wee Ksyrium SLs. I still have these today. As soon as I fitted them to the bike, I noticed remarkable additional speed.

None of my wheels have been very aero, and I think my next set will be. I want to explore that avenue.

So, in summary, I agree with the above post - weight in wheels is important, but not everything.

dmch2

Are Kysrium SLs different to Kysriums? The list on page one shows the Kysriums to be quite heavy but you're saying the stiffness and strength more than makes up for it?

So should the ideal list be made up entirely of Fulcrums of Mavics?

gavintc

dmch2 wrote:

Are Kysrium SLs different to Kysriums? The list on page one shows the Kysriums to be quite heavy but you're saying the stiffness and strength more than makes up for it?

So should the ideal list be made up entirely of Fulcrums of Mavics?

There are a whole bunch of kysriums. Mine weigh just over 1500g - cost me around 450 about 4 yrs ago . My training wheels are Shimano Ultegra, weigh at 1650g and cost about 230 GBP last year. They are not nearly as good as the Kysrium SLs

ugo.santalucia

It seems that your only criterium is weight...
That tells only a little part of the story... I recently built a set of 1.8 Kg wheels whcih turned out to be allround faster (on a hilly course) than my 1.5 Kg usual wheels. So there's more than just weight, even without involving aerodynamics, which are often overestimated anyway.

Most commercial freehubs are rubbish and will slow you down significanlty. I was at the Cycle Show in Earls Court and I could appreciate the mediocre quality of Hope freehubs... infact they turn out to be much much worse of what I ised in the eighties.

So really, you should look at decent hubs, before talking about weight or lateral flex. Most ready made wheels in the 200 pounds range have rubbish hubs and freehubs.

Finally, the lateral flex: unlike commonly believed, this is not due to the rim, but rather to how much tension there is in the spokes. High tension means low lateral flex, hence this sense of "stiffness".

As for the weight of the rims per se (talking alloy only), you can save 50 grams per pair, down to 415 g of the DT 1.1, anything less is only achieved by rubbish build.

Wrapping it up: if you do low mileage or use them for circuit racing, any wheel will probably behave... but if you do 7000 miles per year, then you want reliable components... and I would start from decent hubs and finish with the overall weight, which is pretty much irrelevant

danowat

Sort of on topic.......

I changed my wheels on my Allez from the stock Mavic CXP22's, to a pair of Easton EA70's pretty much as soon as I got it, saving nearly 1kg (950g I believe).

I've ridden the EA70's all summer, yesterday I put the "anchors" (with Michellen Kyrlions on, as opposed to the GP4000S on the Eastons) back on, as the roads around my way are getting a bit ropey, and winters coming.

Any guesses for the amount of difference in time my 17 mile commute took with the "anchors"?, similar effort levels to the Eastons and good weather?

ugo.santalucia

danowat wrote:

Sort of on topic.......

I changed my wheels on my Allez from the stock Mavic CXP22's, to a pair of Easton EA70's pretty much as soon as I got it, saving nearly 1kg (950g I believe).

I've ridden the EA70's all summer, yesterday I put the "anchors" (with Michellen Kyrlions on, as opposed to the GP4000S on the Eastons) back on, as the roads around my way are getting a bit ropey, and winters coming.

Any guesses for the amount of difference in time my 17 mile commute took with the "anchors"?, similar effort levels to the Eastons and good weather?

Well under a minute, I would assume... unless the "anchors" are not only heavy, but also have crap hubs

dmch2

My only criteria certainly isn't weight! Read the rest of the posts

But weight is easily measured so that's my initial list until those who've tried various wheels can let me know so I can amend the list.

It seems that mavics and fulcrums under 200 quid are thought to be better than the planet X and pro-lites despite the weight difference.

I'm waiting for some pro-lite and PXB owners to mount a defence

danowat

Nothing, no difference, which was suprising, infact, I mananged a "PB" on the way home (17miles in 50mins).

I am not saying the Eastons aren't "better", they are IMO, and I would certainly use them in a race / TT / Crit over the stock ones.

The point is, don't expect them to MAKE you any quicker.

(FTR, my route is pretty flat, biggest climb is only 3.5%, so "better" wheels may provide more of a difference on hillier rides)

Extralight

I'm phasing out some old but beautiful and extremely reliable light weight tubular hand builts (Fir 28/32 rims on Hope Ti hubs with Corsa CXs) and replacing these with the Pro-Lite Bracciannos. The reason for the change is that the rims were wearing thin on the handbuilts after many thousands of miles (never ever needed truing). I can no longer justify the expensive indulgence of running tubs given that I don't ride a huge amount, and with a family can no longer afford decent tubs every time I puncture (there's little point in running cheap tubs as good quality clinchers will be much better).

The Pro-Lites arrived yesterday, and won't get their first spin for a few weeks yet, but I'll let you know how they ride when I do use them. First impressions out of the box are very good though. They're seriously light for the money, and true and smooth, and look pretty cool (a bit aero, but nothing too extreme, so should be good for all conditions). They seem too good for the money to be true to be honest, so time will tell. They've had very good reviews though, and although 'factory' wheels, they are handbuilt in the UK I think.

http://www.pro-lite.net/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=58