What did I do wrong?

jonnyboy77

Ok, so I'm a cyclist and a driver - and I like to think that in all respects I give plenty of consideration, be it as a driver to cyclists, driver to driver, etc.

As a result of the above I have rarely come to blows either when driving or when cycling, so this incident from the weekend really stood out for me.

I was waiting at traffic lights in my car (at the sheen lane cross roads heading towards Richmond Park for those that know it) and this is when I first noticed the cyclist, the guy rode along my inside up to the lights, then through them on red, while the pedestrian lights were green.

Not long after the lights change to green for me and I set off and fairly quickly catch up with the cyclist, but the road is narrow with parked cars all over the place, so I hang back and follow the cyclist most of the way up the road heading to the park. When the road finally opens up wide enough I pull out and pass the cyclist leaving plenty of space. I travel a little further, almost to the park gates and again there are cars parked both sides and oncoming traffic, so I slow and put my indicator on waiting for the oncoming traffic to clear so I can go around the parked car to my left. While I'm waiting the cyclist again come up my inside and this time cuts in front of me whilst gesticulating and mouthing something I can't make out - not happy would be a good description.

At this point I'm a little annoyed at his attitude, but also want to clarify what the issue was, and I do mean that I'm not irate or anything, but as I inevitably draw along side I dropped my passenger window and enquired as to the problem - "What's the problem?" I ask ...

.. in return I get some french swearing, little of which I understand, I picked out the odd word I recognised from GCSE french circa 1992, but that's about it. So I put the window up none the wiser and pass him again giving plenty of space so as not to annoy him further.

I go through the park gates ahead of him, but with a 20mph speed limit he catches up between the gates and the roundabout and is behind me gesticulating and swearing in French still, he starts to try and pass me as we approach the roundabout so I drop my drivers window again and try to establish what the issue is, only to get more hand waving and swearing, I'm indicating at this point too as I want to turn right at the roundabout, but he presses on and forces me to brake as he swerved in front of the car waving again (!) and blows straight across the roundabout ... end of situation.

So, I know this isn't terribly interesting to most people, however I'd really like to try and understand what I could have done better in the first instance to avoid the aggravation?

I know that winding my window down for the second time was fruitless and may have added a little oil to the fire at the end, but prior to that I had maintained as calm as possible and genuinely wanted to know what the problem was!

My thoughts are:

- did he feel I followed to closely behind along sheen lane from the lights?
- did he want me to leave more space so he could pass on the inside as I waited for a gap in oncoming traffic?
- perhaps he felt my overtake was unnecessary, as I then had to wait for the oncoming traffic (I had now way of knowing this when I did overtake and the ~15mph he was maintaining up the road mean overtaking was easy and safe).

Perhaps I should file it under one of those things ... but I would feel better if someone could shed some light on this?

I posted in the road section since the guy was on a road bike wearing lycra, I'm not a roadie but I've been a cyclist for year on and off the roads, most recently commuting.

Thanks

Jon

Pross

Based on what you've said it sound like he's just one of those 'victimised' muppets that unfortunately ride a bike and give other cyclists a bad name. There was a guy pulled over on his bike on Traffic Cops last week who was of a similar mentality (couldn't work out why the cops had pulled him when he was cycling in the dark with no lights, jumped a red light, refused to stop and then rode of the footway). Unfortunately humans are humans whether walking, cycling or driving - most are good but some are complete tits!

finchy

He might just be a fool.

EDIT: Maybe a similar car to yours did something wrong and it was a case of mistaken ID?

jonnyboy77

I feel better just for sharing, I'm not suggesting I'm beyond reproach, of course you've only read my side of things and he may have read it differently ... thanks for the replies

The question of mistaken identity does remind me to state that I do drive an Audi, which thanks to a certain main stream motoring program may also have automatically labelled me (incorrectly) as a bad driver!

It was one of those cases where I had consciously tried to do the right thing so was even more affronted when I got abuse for it/something ... had the guy spoken English I would have been truly interested to know what I could have done better!

I'm hoping to add a road bike to the stable next year, maybe I'll understand it better then

EDIT: Century Post!

- Jon

Ollieda

Theres also an issue of expected confrontation - if you ride in london (like many built up areas) you get used to confortation and soon come to expected it. Sure, based on what you said the cyclist was a prat but when you rolled down your window and spoke to hime he probably expected you to be having a go (especially if he couldn't understand you) and then when you came back a second time he might have thought you were trying it on again - of course this is no excuse for him but might be a reason why he acted like that, or he might have just been a prat in general!

Unfortuantly its people like him who give cyclists a bad name and with the pack mentality of most of the country just because he was like that, all cyclists are like that.

MattC59

To me, you seem to have done nothing wrong.

Unfortunately it sounds like you've encountered one of the a*se holes who give roadies a bad name.

I've encountered people like this too, and being a driver, a roadie and a mountain biker, I always give cyclists plenty of room, but there are those who will only be happy when the roads are devoid of all traffic.
The problem with this type of person is that they believe the 'victimised cyclist' stuff and don't just have a chip on their shoulder, but a whole sack of spuds.

I find, in this type of situation, a completely out of context "Blimey, you're really ugly" tends to shut them up. If you can interrupt them mid flow, then all the better

jonnyboy77

MattC59 wrote:

I find, in this type of situation, a completely out of context "Blimey, you're really ugly" tends to shut them up. If you can interrupt them mid flow, then all the better

Like it. In this case:

"vous êtes monsieur très laid"

- Jon

shm_uk

If he was French, his bad mood can be explained by his inability to be on strike at that particular moment ...

MattC59

jonnyboy77 wrote:

MattC59 wrote:

I find, in this type of situation, a completely out of context "Blimey, you're really ugly" tends to shut them up. If you can interrupt them mid flow, then all the better

Like it. In this case:

"vous êtes monsieur très laid"

- Jon

I said it to a female lorry driver some time ago. She nearly wiped me out (I was in a big blue Passat estate, she couldn't have not noticed me), then proceeded to abuse me at the next set of lights. Mid stream, I interrupted her with "wow, you're ugly". It stopped her dead. She had no answer to it and I drove away.

To be fair, she was ugly, you could scare police horses with a face like hers !!

amaferanga

Based on your description it doesn't sound like you did anything wrong.

It could be that you did something minor, but it was the final straw for the cyclist after being cut-up/ pulled-out-on / honked-at numerous times just before encountering you?

Gazzaputt

If he was French I'd have had him off

bigmat

He was probably annoyed at you constantly overtaking him and then holding him up. And maybe he didn't like the fact that yet another car was cutting through the park. You don't appear to have been doing anything wrong as such, but those two things might have wound up an irate cyclist.

Cleat Eastwood

Had a similar thing a few months back. Cyclist going over hill, we held back, it being too dangerous to over take on brow of hill. When we get to top of hill we see road ahead is clear so indicate to overtake, as we do so.....cyclist waves fist calling us A-holes. You just have to wise up the fact that the world is full of knackers and some of em sadly ride bikes.

Would have been funny if he'd had an accent like the english/french cop on Allo allo- "Good moaning, I was trying to p*ss by your car"

deptfordmarmoset

jonnyboy77 wrote:

MattC59 wrote:

I find, in this type of situation, a completely out of context "Blimey, you're really ugly" tends to shut them up. If you can interrupt them mid flow, then all the better

Like it. In this case:

"vous êtes monsieur très laid"

- Jon

''Putain connard, t'es moche/laid comme un pou!'' - broadly ''fugly as a flea'' - and wind your window up toute de suite :-)

Anonymous

He was French and you were driving a German car. That may have been enough.

I believe French government had a similar response when Siemens won the contract to build the new Eurostar trains.

alfablue

Just an idea, when I have cycled in France (not Paris I should add) I found that drivers would customarily leave a full lane width space when they overtake, which is very welcome. Whilst you say you left enough room, perhaps it wasn't so in his perception. Also (not wishing to insult you, but is one possibility) some drivers idea of "room" seems pretty miniscule, and I wonder if they have issues with spatial awareness on the left side of their vehicles.

Just a suggestion.

jonnyboy77

alfablue wrote:

Just an idea, when I have cycled in France (not Paris I should add) I found that drivers would customarily leave a full lane width space when they overtake, which is very welcome. Whilst you say you left enough room, perhaps it wasn't so in his perception. Also (not wishing to insult you, but is one possibility) some drivers idea of "room" seems pretty miniscule, and I wonder if they have issues with spatial awareness on the left side of their vehicles.

Just a suggestion.

Yeah its a fair point, although had I left any more space I may have been taking wing mirrors off the cars parked to my right! I wish he'd yelled at me in English so I could figure out what it was, I can't imagine being in a foreign country and yelling in English and expecting anyone to understand me ...

The road in question is not super wide, maybe 1.5 cars wide with parked cars littered both sides url=http://goo.gl/maps/tN4k]link[/url

richclip

If you had confronted him further, being French he probably would have just surrendered!

Weejie54

Maybe you shouldn't have had that sticker in the back window saying "St Crispin's Day 1415".

pneumatic

Of all the things you did, the only one that occasionally annoys me is when folk overtake and then have to pull in behind parked cars. Especially when I am in a rhythm, for example, on a hill. But even there, it sounds like you left room in front of you for him to get around you and the parked car.

Of all the things suggested, the one that rings truest to me is that he had had sh1t day already, a couple of near misses with other cars and was looking for a fight with any motorist that went anywhere near him.

I dream of the day I get sworn at in this country by a French person, because one of my little used life skills is that I can give it back good and proper en francais!!

OffTheBackAdam

He's French, nuff said!