Doping Apologists - Stop Spinning and Acknowledge it!

Pross

So following on from the recent accussation of doping apologists on this forum, are you one?

redddraggon

I think we shouldn't bother testing as much then we can have a clean sport like Football and Tennis.

Pross

I'll add that option then

Pokerface

They should just establish a new Pro Tour outside the UCI - and have no doping rules whatsoever.

Then riders could dope up to 60% hemocrit and we'd see some awesome racing. FF would absolutely love it.

shinyhelmut

Shooting's too good for 'em

iainf72

Anyone who doesn't agree with my angry 9 year old reasoning is an apologist.

No_Ta_Doctor

Can I be the first doping apologists apologist? I think they should just get a stern warning for all that apologising, rather than having their toenails extracted with pliers, their skin flayed and their lips stapled shut prior to execution by lethal injection of beef.

RichN95.

The punishment should be 'hobbling' (as seen in the film Misery : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5OlolbLXvw)

It's the only punishment psittacosis understands.

acidstrato

i quite like the idea of a secondary category of competition which allows doping, it would serve two benefits..

could ensure only the clean sportsmen compete against each other
and
would probably see many hyped up druggies going apeshit on the bikes, raging at each other before suffering heat failure or catastrophic muscle imbalanace. not to mention all the men would have tiny c0cks and moobs


as for the poll, I maintain slight empathy for first time offenders and believe it should depend on the ped used and whether there is actual remorse.

afx237vi

RichN95 wrote:

The punishment should be 'hobbling' (as seen in the film Misery : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5OlolbLXvw)

It's the only punishment psittacosis understands.

Hobbling is too good for them, you apologist. Make a human centipede of 'em is what I say.

ratsbeyfus

Dopers should be locked in a room with this fella for 2 years:

Mettan

ratsbeyfus wrote:

Dopers should be locked in a room with this fella for 2 years:

Or these two:

secretsqirrel

Mettan wrote:

ratsbeyfus wrote:

Dopers should be locked in a room with this fella for 2 years:

Or these two:

That'll learn'em. 'you too could end up like these poor souls, if you don't lay off the Clem'

ratsbeyfus

Why do body builders always look so constipated?

RichN95.

afx237vi wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

The punishment should be 'hobbling' (as seen in the film Misery : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5OlolbLXvw)

It's the only punishment psittacosis understands.

Hobbling is too good for them, you apologist. Make a human centipede of 'em is what I say.

Don't tell me you've actually seen that film. I've only seen the trailer. WTF!. Who even imagines stuff like that?

afx237vi

RichN95 wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

The punishment should be 'hobbling' (as seen in the film Misery : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5OlolbLXvw)

It's the only punishment psittacosis understands.

Hobbling is too good for them, you apologist. Make a human centipede of 'em is what I say.

Don't tell me you've actually seen that film. I've only seen the trailer. WTF!. Who even imagines stuff like that?

Nah, I haven't seen it - just read about it. The idea sounds absurdly funny to me, but I have absolutely no desire to see it. Although to be honest it sounds like a chick-flick in comparison to "A Serbian Film". That sounds screwed up beyond belief.

Pross

ratsbeyfus wrote:

Why do body builders always look so constipated?

Too many clen contaminated steaks in their diet

SunWuKong

Can't we send them to a country that still allows stoning as a method of applying the death penalty. It would be better than dealing with them within the union of countries that condone adultery.

calvjones

afx237vi wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

The punishment should be 'hobbling' (as seen in the film Misery : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5OlolbLXvw)

It's the only punishment psittacosis understands.

Hobbling is too good for them, you apologist. Make a human centipede of 'em is what I say.

Don't tell me you've actually seen that film. I've only seen the trailer. WTF!. Who even imagines stuff like that?

Nah, I haven't seen it - just read about it. The idea sounds absurdly funny to me, but I have absolutely no desire to see it. Although to be honest it sounds like a chick-flick in comparison to "A Serbian Film". That sounds screwed up beyond belief.

Jeez, you too should invest in a James Caan boxset for the Turbo this winter. I fondly imagine, following a previous thread, that our own Tush might end up one day 'looking after' Cav in her small Scottish cottage somewhere remote. At least she could take a hammer to that 'oribble Scott.

jimmythecuckoo

I am no apologist for them. Catch 'em and ban 'em.

2 years is right for a first offence as it does offer a chance for redemption.

Second time has to be a life ban though.

Pross

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

I am no apologist for them. Catch 'em and ban 'em.

2 years is right for a first offence as it does offer a chance for redemption.

Second time has to be a life ban though.

Unfortunately under the psittacosis system that second line automatically means you are indeed an apologist. Sorry

dennisn

i don't think anyone is apoligizing for these guys. It's more like simply explaining that no matter what the punishment there will always be some who will try to beat the system.
That seems to me to be a fact of life. Threats of bans, whether 2 years or life, or hanging, or being tore apart by wild horses, are very effective for most people, but, not all and I don't believe any of it will stop cheating. Wanting to win and or the money are usually enough reason for some people to take the chance. I have no idea now to stop
any of it. I remember watching a couple of older gentlemen playing a game of checkers and one of them cheated while the other wasn't looking. He took great joy in his "victory".
There was no money involved, simply the "Thrill of Victory and the Agony of Defeat", to quote an old sports program.

mikey_748

2 year ban and stripped of all previous wins......

Monkeypump

afx237vi wrote:

Nah, I haven't seen it - just read about it. The idea sounds absurdly funny to me, but I have absolutely no desire to see it. Although to be honest it sounds like a chick-flick in comparison to "A Serbian Film". That sounds screwed up beyond belief.

Human Centipede looks bizarrely hilarious (seen trailer only). However, just read the plot synopsis for A Serbian Film - not exactly something to relax on a Sunday afternoon with!

Pross

dennisn wrote:

i don't think anyone is apoligizing for these guys. It's more like simply explaining that no matter what the punishment there will always be some who will try to beat the system.
That seems to me to be a fact of life. Threats of bans, whether 2 years or life, or hanging, or being tore apart by wild horses, are very effective for most people, but, not all and I don't believe any of it will stop cheating. Wanting to win and or the money are usually enough reason for some people to take the chance.

I know that, you know that but to the odd character that was psittacosis if you suggested anything less than a life ban then you are an apologist and ignore any employment legislation along the way

dennisn

Pross wrote:

dennisn wrote:

i don't think anyone is apoligizing for these guys. It's more like simply explaining that no matter what the punishment there will always be some who will try to beat the system.
That seems to me to be a fact of life. Threats of bans, whether 2 years or life, or hanging, or being tore apart by wild horses, are very effective for most people, but, not all and I don't believe any of it will stop cheating. Wanting to win and or the money are usually enough reason for some people to take the chance.

I know that, you know that but to the odd character that was psittacosis if you suggested anything less than a life ban then you are an apologist and ignore any employment legislation along the way

I guess he thinks that's the way to stop doping / cheating. In a way he's sort of right. If you ban someone for life THAT person won't be doping / cheating to win races again.
Problem is there is usually someone to take his place and the possible punishment, even life bans, is simply not enough to stop him / them. As I see it, all that can be done is catch whomever you can and deal out whatever punishment has been decided upon. Some might say that I'm sticking my head in the sand, but what else is there?

Garry H

Pross wrote:

I know that, you know that but to the odd character that was psittacosis if you suggested anything less than a life ban then you are an apologist and ignore any employment legislation along the way

Does the emplyment angle hold water though? If a doctor/lawyer/accountant can be banned from practicing, why can't a professional athlete?

dennisn

Garry H wrote:

Pross wrote:

I know that, you know that but to the odd character that was psittacosis if you suggested anything less than a life ban then you are an apologist and ignore any employment legislation along the way

Does the emplyment angle hold water though? If a doctor/lawyer/accountant can be banned from practicing, why can't a professional athlete?

Interesting idea and some of them are banned on ethics alone. However, even though this happens there are still doctors, lawyers, and accountants ready to "fill in" for their banned collegues. Always has been a fair share of sleazy lawyers, doctors, etc.

samiam

Lifetime ban.

Wheelspinner

None of the above.

I think a 2 year ban is inadequate, since that appears to be nothing more than an extended training camp for some of these guys, who immediately come back in great form. Hellllloooo Vino and Basso....

A 5 year ban for FIRST offence may be more useful. Long enough that many of those busted won't bother to return, and more importantly, long enough to kill the career of an older rider. How many 30 year old riders would stick out the training for 5 years just on the off chance they may get a gig for a year or two at best? On the other hand, a 20 year old banned for 5 years might just learn the lesson and come back clean.

Second offence - life ban. No discussion.

Incidentally, can anyone tell me if banned riders are still subject to OOC testing while banned?

Just curious, because if not, in their 2 year holiday they can really hit the PED's hard, hoping to retain some of the benefits when they clean up to come back racing?

RichN95.

The cow that allegedly took clenbutenol was shot and eaten.

Is it too much to expect the same fate for Contador?