Tubeless or not?

El Capitano

I've seen a few threads already on here, but none of them seemed to answer my questions:

I've just taken delivery of a new set of wheels, which have ZTR Crest rims and already have the yellow rim tape and tubeless valves installed.

So, am I to assume that I could just stick a pair of tyres on these rims, inflate them and they'd stay up? I know I'd probably need the sealant and would be better off with specific UST tyres, but want to understand the basics of what I've already got.

Is there any real weight gain from using a Tubeless sytem? The tubes I normally run only weigh 87g each.

Is the only real benefit the ability to run your tyres at a lower pressure? I normally run mine at 40psi and can't see the need or reason to reduce the pressure.

Northwind

In your case there'll be no real weight loss, you might actually gain a little depending on how much sealant you use... But you should get on fine with many standard tyres, ymmv but all the ones I've used have been fine. You'll need sealant with them, but then, most people use sealant with UST tyres as well.

You'll be able to run lower pressures as you say, but also o'course you'll get better puncture prevention. Not perfect, you can still get punctures with tubeless regardless of what people say but still very good. Think I've had one in the last year that wouldn't seal, and one ripped sidewall, but either one would have caused a flat anyway of course and I bet I'd have had more with tubes.

Oh and some people say that like for like tubeless is faster rolling and gives more grip because the tyres are more "supple". Totally unconvinced by that but you never know.

carbonfiend

those rims are designed to run tubeless so might be a tight fit with a tube. Yeah lower pressures etc but for me tubless is all about lack of punctures, full stop.

Anonymous

i would only go tubeless if you are cool.
also, only if you want to stop punctures from making your tyres go flat during a ride.

kinelljohn

Just how do tubeless become puncture resistant, is it the thickness of the compound?

Anonymous

any rim can be converted but you will need a conversion kit.

universal kits can be had which include "stans no tubes" or "joe's no flats"

some manufacturer make specific rim strips for some of their rims.

which rims do you have?

kinelljohn

Just did a cack job of editing my post...

My rims are Mavic xm117's which I think are pretty low tech.

Anonymous

those rims can be converted using a stans or a joes kit easily.

the puncture protection comes from the latex selant you have inside the tyre sloshing about.

kinelljohn

Simple as that then. When I bought my bike a while back they threw in a couple of inner tubes with the very same stuff inside but to date I have been reluctant to use them for a couple of reasons:
They are very heavy and I have a horror of this liquid escaping and getting everywhere!
Unfounded fears?

Anonymous

slime tubes are a decent idea but as you say, heavy.

thing with a tubeless set up is that once you have converted your rims you will need proper tubeless ready tyres. in my opinion, converting regular tyres isnt very successful, plenty of folk have done it and love it, i found non specific tyres werent reliable and would burp off the rim under cornering and whatnot.

kinelljohn

Thanks for the advice.

One of my monthly mags is offering a pair of tubeless tyres as a subscription incentive and it got me thinking about it all. I may just put the slime tubes in until I come up with something better.

Sorry for high-jacking your thread El Capitano.

bobpzero

yep ill be watching this thread. tho one question bit of confusion over what to use when inflating the tyre co2 canister or trackpump.

Anonymous

use a trck pump. you wont need c02 unless you are using the wrong type of tyres. proper tyres pump up dead easy.

apparently once you use the c02 toinflate the tyres and seat the bead, you have to let the c02 out then reinflate with a pump using air.

Northwind

I use a compressor myself, much easier A good hint, if you're ever having trouble getting a tyre to inflate, remove the valve and fire in a standard tube, inflate, then break the bead around one side only, remove the tube, fit the valve, refit tyre- it'll already be seated round one side so will inflate easily from there. Assuming you have proper tubeless rims that is.

carbonfiend

I use regular tyres never had a problem with blurp (great word btw) the only problem i have had with reg tyres is that the side walls arent as thick as UST so can be porous when inflating. To be honest dont know anybody that uses UST tyres but I ride XC and enduro so a lot easier on the wheel than heavy trail riders.

I use co2 to inflate first without milk so the tyre sits in the bead then deflate add sealant and then re inflate with track pump.

El Capitano

kinelljohn wrote:

Sorry for high-jacking your thread El Capitano.

No worries, it all seems like good advice.

Another issue that I'll face is that I change my tyres to suit where I'm riding/racing. How easy is this to do with a tubeless set up? Would I need to use new sealant every time and is it a messy process?

Anonymous

re-use your sealant and it is messier than normal tyre changes but nothing terrible, the selant will stay in the tyre untill you scoop it out.

carbonfiend

must admit that can be a pain in the arse though you can resuse stans milk. One solution I found is I choose a tyre that I feel can cope with 'most' of what comes at you during a particular season.

IanTrcp

sheepsteeth wrote:

...apparently once you use the c02 toinflate the tyres and seat the bead, you have to let the c02 out then reinflate with a pump using air.

Really? Why?

I used a co2 to get them (Bonty Jones MudX) started then topped-up/finished off with the track pump. Took 50psi+ to get them to 'crack' into place and they're holding pressure very well so far.

Northwind

Some say the CO2 stops the sealant from working. Don't know why.

hennez

I tried to put some tubeless maxxis crossmarks on my bike. I have dt swiss xcr rims and the tyres were an absolut B*stard to get on. I ended up buggering the bead on one of the tyres they were that hard to get on!!!! :x :x :x

Alex

The current Pro Tip for those who want an easier ride rather than an ultimate weight saving is to use the tyres you would normally use, plus latex, on tubeless rims.

Many riders, especially heavier riders, hard riders or those riding DH, will find UST tyres feeble, pinchflatty, burpy and a bit rolly polly. Rolling the tyre off the rim in a corner hurts a lot.

Standard tyres tend to be a bit more manly and stay put once they're where they're supposed to be. That way you get the uninterrupted ride benefits of tubeless delivered properly.

hennez

I know that stansnotubes do not reccomend using Hutchison, Intense or IRC non-tubeless tyres with a tubeless setup as they have a very weak bead and there is a lot of strain put on the bead when running them tubeless...

Barteos

I've been tubeless for about 2 years and I'm surprised that so many people still use tubes.

1. FS trail bike - Stans Flow rims, yellow tape, valve stem, Stans sealant, various non-tubeless tyres.
2. Road bike - Stans ZTR355 29er rims, yellow tape, valve stem, various road/touring tyres 32-38mm. It just floats on the New Forest roads 8)
3. Retro winter MTB bike with some unidentified retro rims, Stans rubber strips w/valve, sealant, Schwalbe Marathon Winter studded tyres.

Except of the ocassional sealant top-up and a bit of a mess when changing tyres (not often) it's been a fit and forget puncture free affair, so far.

PXR5

hennez wrote:

I tried to put some tubeless maxxis crossmarks on my bike. I have dt swiss xcr rims and the tyres were an absolut B*stard to get on. :x :x :x

I had the same problem fitting LUST Crossmark onto Mavic 819 rims, pain in the butt, am about to see how easy it is to remove the tyre as i'm about to try standard (ie not UST) maxxis ADvantage tyres with sealant - most of the guys i ride with run standard tyres as tubeless, either for a bit of weight gain, or more often for a lot of cost saving

Hopefully job jobbed in the next couple of days

Torres

Barteos wrote:

2. Road bike - Stans ZTR355 29er rims, yellow tape, valve stem, various road/touring tyres 32-38mm. It just floats on the New Forest roads 8)

Noe this is something i don't understand (it's not a dig at you thougn Bart) but why would you want/need to rub road tyres tubelss?

Seeing as the ability to run lower pressures is the only main advantage, and road tyres are best run at high pressures... what's the point?

delta5

Barteos wrote:

I've been tubeless for about 2 years and I'm surprised that so many people still use tubes.

. . .

Except of the ocassional sealant top-up and a bit of a mess when changing tyres (not often) it's been a fit and forget puncture free affair, so far.

+ Large crispy roast potato

Barteos

Torres wrote:

Barteos wrote:

2. Road bike - Stans ZTR355 29er rims, yellow tape, valve stem, various road/touring tyres 32-38mm. It just floats on the New Forest roads 8)

Noe this is something i don't understand (it's not a dig at you thougn Bart) but why would you want/need to rub road tyres tubelss?

Seeing as the ability to run lower pressures is the only main advantage, and road tyres are best run at high pressures... what's the point?

I really wouldn't like to open a can of worms...

My tubeless setup allows me to run some wide fast NON-puncture protected (=faster) tyres at lower pressures for more comfort without compromising speed and puncture protection. I mostly train in the New Forest and considering the condition of the roads this option is much more sensible and practical to me than ubiquitous "me too" 23/25mm tyres.

At the moment I run Rivendell 33.33333333mm Jack Brown, Green Label (no punct prot.) tyres and typically ride them at 60 PSI rear 50 PSI front. Higher pressures than that make me hardly faster, just less comfortable.

After having done some tests with a Powertap on the same New Forest 50m loop, I can't see much of a difference between Jack Browns and 25mm Gatorskins (tubes, 100/110PSI) except of a dramatically increased comfort and confidence, especially in the dark.

Next week I'll be testing Contis GP4000 25mm.